The Managerial Merry Go Round™ - Ivan Juric to Southampton

[Away Toon]

For sure we played fantastic football under Keegan, the problem is that NUFC is a serial loser when it comes to winning anything, we are bottlers and anybody who has seen us in a cup final can hardly disagree. We are like England, mostly shit, occasionally promising, losers when it matters. That's why winning something should be the only thing the club should be trying to do.

[midds]

For sure we played fantastic football under Keegan, the problem is that NUFC is a serial loser when it comes to winning anything, we are bottlers and anybody who has seen us in a cup final can hardly disagree. We are like England, mostly shit, occasionally promising, losers when it matters. That's why winning something should be the only thing the club should be trying to do.

 

Which is exactly why it's so futile at the minute. There's no interest whatsoever in winning anything other than survival each year, no enjoyment because all you're doing is guaranteeing another year so you can do it again next year, and next year and so on.

 

The joy, pride and excitement that Keegan side gave me for 5 years was unbelievable. I'd not seen football like it and it was my team that was playing it. He took us from tears to fucking excellence and won friends around the world along the way. I know we didn't win anything but given the choice of spawning a League Cup whilst plodding along in the league or that glorious 5 year period? Fuck your League Cup.

[Disco]

Given my age when meeting new people one of the first things I usually get asked once they learn you’re a Newcastle sympathiser is if I remember the Keegan era. Why yes, I’m a paid up 1992r, and it was bloody glorious.

 

 

[ToonArmy1892]

Crikey, talk about losers mentality.

 

That's a bloody brainless comment, like. It's got absolutely nothing to do with either a winning or a losing mentality.

 

Back when the club existed as an outright sporting institution - as opposed to whatever you would define it as now - a cup win would have been unbelievable. One of the best things ever, without a shadow of a doubt. I'm sure there isn't a single person here who wouldn't agree.

 

It's never been about winning trophies though. We've not won one for 50 years ffs; even my dad can barely remember it. Like the vast, vast majority of supporters in this country - you don't support your team because they win things. At this point, the concept is alien to us. Of course, you go into every game and tournament hoping you win; but the most important thing is the sense of identity and belonging - your club is a reflection of you as an individual. You don't need trophies for that. You need a football club that tries to be the best football club it can be. If it does that, and does well, defying expectations - hosanna. If it does badly, so be it, we can all be f***ing gutted and raging together.

 

There's been times in the past when we've been a bag of absolute s**** and the club has really hurt me. But I've still been proud to call myself a Newcastle supporter. It's why anyone that knows me well enough talks about Newcastle before they talk about anything else (which is annoying these days).

 

Trophies would just be a wonderful add-on.

 

No, sorry i'm not having that.

 

I want to see NUFC lift silverware and the reason i've stopped going is because as it is we are a club that isn't trying to compete for it.

 

It IS about winning, at least trying to win things, it's not a kickabout with mates at the park.

 

I want my club to COMPETE.

 

 

[Wullie]

Bizarre nonsense.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

This should be posted in the KK thread, but at Liverpool, cups were for the directors, the sponsors and the fans, the league was for the manager and players. When Liverpool started getting into Europe. The directors and fans were not overly bothered and nor were the players and manager, mostly because of the arrogance within English football at the time, but also because cup competitions did not measure how great a team were or how players and managers could measure their own success by. Poor managers and poor players back then didn’t manage or play for teams that were finishing in the top 5, they played for teams finishing mid-table or at the very bottom. KK could have scored 20 goals for Scunthorpe finishing tenth in the top division and winning a cup, but to be a truly top player, he would have had to play for a top team competing with the other top teams. Players measured their own success and how good they were and managers too back then, not with cup winners medals or most goals scored, but by playing for a top team and finishing high or highest in the league.

 

Later, the European Cup become the kind of measure the domestic League did as to how good a team was, how good a player was to play for that team and how successful they were, internationally. Directors and sponsors eventually placed the European Cup above do,estimates cups which they used to place above the league and in the end, a few decades on, the domestic cups are no longer relevant win or elimination and the league is less important to directors, owners, sponsors, managers, players and even fans  than Champions League footy, which is now even more important to many than international football... until the WC come around of course.

 

Players in KK’s day regarded a cup run as a pay rise/bonus packet. Managers made directors happy getting to Wembley and winning who in turn made sponsors happy, who made themselves the happiest seeing their name next to a cup etched into the honours list. Titles were great of course and important to directors and owners, but they get less boardroom glory than the manager and players get from the stands and in the dressing room and across other clubs’ dressing rooms.

 

Cup runs and Wembley trips and triumphs were huge with fans because of the glamour, because anyone can win, because of the big day out at Wembley, because it’s a panto to the play that the league is.

 

NUFC during the 50s give up on many a high finish in the league and even shots at the title in favour of a cup run or a cup win which today, we all hark back to and long to repeat just the once so we can taste silverware.

 

KK longes for something else, to end a season as the best team in the league, the on,y measure of how good a team is, how good a player is to play in such a team and how successful a team really is or not and it’s manager and players.

 

There was no cups or titles, but for 5 years we were one of the best teams, with the best players, playing the best football and because of that we were one of the best places to win the title, to challenge in Europe and that, for me, as a supporter back then and now, meant and means more to me that I got to witness that and have that kind of belief, hope and absolute certainty in my club, my manager, my players, that we were just as good as Man Utd and better than Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, just not as successful at winning silverware, something even the likes of Leicester were and later Birmingham, Swansea and Wigan.

 

Would I swap their cup win for the 5 years under KK or the years under Sir Bobby? Would I fuck, what and miss out on Feyenoord away, Albert’s chip, Shearer coming home, Ginola on the wing, Andy Cole scoring 41 goals, the stupendous football we played ever week, Robert, Nobby, Lee, Speed, Arsenal away then Leeds away to go top of the league after Xmas. Seeing my club finish 3rd, 6th, 2nd, 2nd again. Finish 4th, 3rd and 5th. Antewerp, Bilbao, the San Siro, Barcelona away, Juventus on Tyneside. Graced by the beautiful, amazing, warm, genuine, passionate and loving of Sir Bobby, of Keegan?

 

Nah, no way.

 

If you would swap a cup for any of that, you’re in the wrong game, you should be sat next to the directors or working in corporate for the club or it’s sponsors. Or maybe you should give following Swansea a try, or Birmingham, or Liverpool. They win lots of stuff.

 

Sure a cup would have been great, a title too. Even greater if we were great too, but not as nor will it ever be, as great as it means to support Newcastle United, greater than any trophy or success, I wouldn’t swap one Shearer for an FA Cup. That CL run for a League Cup. Barcelona 3-2 for a day out at Wembley. Winning the first division in 93 for Pardew’s 5th. 3 years of Rafa for 10 years of Ashley. 1 year of Rafa for all of Gullit, Roeder, Souness, Big Sam, Kinnear, McLaren and Bruce combined.

 

I wouldn’t swap Hughton and his era and the 5-1 that came with it for Pardew/‘s 5th, for Souness Cardiff Semi, for Europa League footy under Pardew.

 

I wouldn’t swap winning Man Utd’s title that year over all of the KK years and no title if it meant just that 1 year winning the title.

 

I genuinely pity those who didn’t live through that era, they were the best days of our lives growing supporting them Toon like your childhood or school days would be the best days of your life growing up. You can’t replace that, no GCSE can trump knocking about at school with your mates, nor job title or CV or adult achievement other than becoming a parent can trump being a kid. And no cup or trophy can trump being there, being part of, and being alive to see KK’s NUFC every week for 5 years, those matches, those seasons, those players, that football, that excitement, emotion, that roller coaster ride.

 

A cup in comparison would be like a kids’ fairground tea cup ride.

[ToonArmy1892]

More mawkish nonsense.

[Disco]

Shock as Newcastle fans love most successful manager of the last 50 years.

[Gottlob]

There's always a strain of support at least on the internet which seems to think that firm avowal of results and trophies makes them themselves winners.

[ToonArmy1892]

Shock as Newcastle fans love most successful manager of the last 50 years.

 

Nowt to do with that, i love Keegan, but to say it isn't about winning trophies is ridiculous.

[Disco]

Shock as Newcastle fans love most successful manager of the last 50 years.

 

Nowt to do with that, i love Keegan, but to say it isn't about winning trophies is ridiculous.

 

Eh? No one is a Newcastle fan if it’s about trophies. You enjoy the good times when they come and if a trophy is added, even better. If one doesn’t come, does it dismiss those good times? Absolutely not. Yorker’s post is spot on. KK didn’t choose to fall at the final hurdle unfortunately it happened but fuck me, implying he failed is beyond the pail.

[Interpolic]

In a short space of time Keegan transformed us from a side heading into the 3rd tier to one of the best teams in Europe. In the 90s we were beating Man Utd and Barcelona in football matches and also to signings. Our turnover was in the top handful of clubs in Europe and so was our spend. Not to mention playing some of the most attractive football ever seen in this country. Would love to know which part of all of that wasn't competing.

 

[ToonArmy1892]

Shock as Newcastle fans love most successful manager of the last 50 years.

 

Nowt to do with that, i love Keegan, but to say it isn't about winning trophies is ridiculous.

 

Eh? No one is a Newcastle fan if it’s about trophies. You enjoy the good times when they come and if a trophy is added, even better. If one doesn’t come, does it dismiss those good times? Absolutely not. Yorker’s post is spot on. KK didn’t choose to fall at the final hurdle unfortunately it happened but f*** me, implying he failed is beyond the pail.

 

Of course it doesn't dismiss those good times, i enjoyed the Bobby era, but it f***ing hurt to not win the Uefa Cup or FA Cup, how much better would it have been if we DID win something is all i'm saying.

 

Some people are going on like winning is for losers.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

More mawkish nonsense.

 

That’s the essence of being a fan, sentimental, emotional, illogical bollocks, but real feelings, that’s pure and can’t just be replicated or replaced with a bit of silver man.

 

If KK’s NUFC was a bottle of milk and the the top was silver, I’d remove the silver and drink that milk in one go.

 

Football today is sour milk that’s went off and fans today are taking a sip and thinking, hmm. This isn’t bad.

 

In KK we got to drink the cream!

 

Ain’t milk brilliant!

 

 

[ToonArmy1892]

More mawkish nonsense.

 

That’s the essence of being a fan, sentimental, emotional, illogical bollocks, but real feelings, that’s pure and can’t just be replicated or replaced with a bit of silver man.

 

If KK’s NUFC was a bottle of milk and the the top was silver, I’d remove the silver and drink that milk in one go.

 

Football today is sour milk that’s went off and fans today are taking a sip and thinking, hmm. This isn’t bad.

 

In KK we got to drink the cream!

 

Ain’t milk brilliant!

 

[Disco]

Shock as Newcastle fans love most successful manager of the last 50 years.

 

Nowt to do with that, i love Keegan, but to say it isn't about winning trophies is ridiculous.

 

Eh? No one is a Newcastle fan if it’s about trophies. You enjoy the good times when they come and if a trophy is added, even better. If one doesn’t come, does it dismiss those good times? Absolutely not. Yorker’s post is spot on. KK didn’t choose to fall at the final hurdle unfortunately it happened but f*** me, implying he failed is beyond the pail.

 

Of course it doesn't dismiss those good times, i enjoyed the Bobby era, but it f***ing hurt to not win the Uefa Cup or FA Cup, how much better would it have been if we DID win something is all i'm saying.

 

Some people are going on like winning is for losers.

 

No they’re not and no you weren’t but of course it would’ve been better. No one is arguing against that.

 

I’ve still, before or after, never seen a goal celebrated like Lee in that SF.

[Yorkie]

Shock as Newcastle fans love most successful manager of the last 50 years.

 

Nowt to do with that, i love Keegan, but to say it isn't about winning trophies is ridiculous.

 

Eh? No one is a Newcastle fan if it’s about trophies. You enjoy the good times when they come and if a trophy is added, even better. If one doesn’t come, does it dismiss those good times? Absolutely not. Yorker’s post is spot on. KK didn’t choose to fall at the final hurdle unfortunately it happened but f*** me, implying he failed is beyond the pail.

 

Of course it doesn't dismiss those good times, i enjoyed the Bobby era, but it f***ing hurt to not win the Uefa Cup or FA Cup, how much better would it have been if we DID win something is all i'm saying.

 

Some people are going on like winning is for losers.

 

I feel like we're basically in total agreement and I dunno what we're even wittering about, and then you write the bit in bold and it's like you're missing the point all over again.

 

Winning a trophy would be class and it's what we're all striving for. But there's a couple other fundamental boxes that my club needs to tick in order to get my support before 'wins trophies'. Such is the case for fans of roughly 98% of teams in the football league.

[ToonArmy1892]

Shock as Newcastle fans love most successful manager of the last 50 years.

 

Nowt to do with that, i love Keegan, but to say it isn't about winning trophies is ridiculous.

 

Eh? No one is a Newcastle fan if it’s about trophies. You enjoy the good times when they come and if a trophy is added, even better. If one doesn’t come, does it dismiss those good times? Absolutely not. Yorker’s post is spot on. KK didn’t choose to fall at the final hurdle unfortunately it happened but f*** me, implying he failed is beyond the pail.

 

Of course it doesn't dismiss those good times, i enjoyed the Bobby era, but it f***ing hurt to not win the Uefa Cup or FA Cup, how much better would it have been if we DID win something is all i'm saying.

 

Some people are going on like winning is for losers.

 

No they’re not and no you weren’t but of course it would’ve been better. No one is arguing against that.

 

I’ve still, before or after, never seen a goal celebrated like Lee in that SF.

 

I was on those seats near the front that had no backrest and hardly any slope, i saw hardly any of the game as everyone was obviously standing and i was 9 and short, i somehow managed to see Lee's goal though (random big Geordie next to me lifted me up so i could see some of the game). Was with me mam who couldn't lift me.

 

 

[ToonArmy1892]

Shock as Newcastle fans love most successful manager of the last 50 years.

 

Nowt to do with that, i love Keegan, but to say it isn't about winning trophies is ridiculous.

 

Eh? No one is a Newcastle fan if it’s about trophies. You enjoy the good times when they come and if a trophy is added, even better. If one doesn’t come, does it dismiss those good times? Absolutely not. Yorker’s post is spot on. KK didn’t choose to fall at the final hurdle unfortunately it happened but f*** me, implying he failed is beyond the pail.

 

Of course it doesn't dismiss those good times, i enjoyed the Bobby era, but it f***ing hurt to not win the Uefa Cup or FA Cup, how much better would it have been if we DID win something is all i'm saying.

 

Some people are going on like winning is for losers.

 

I feel like we're basically in total agreement and I dunno what we're even wittering about, and then you write the bit in bold and it's like you're missing the point all over again.

 

Winning a trophy would be class and it's what we're all striving for. But there's a couple other fundamental boxes that my club needs to tick in order to get my support before 'wins trophies'. Such is the case for fans of roughly 98% of teams in the football league.

 

Aye i shouldn't have wrote the last bit, i just get a bit daft sometimes.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Back to KK, when he went to Germany, the mindset there was that winning not losing came first, second and last, trophies yar, das is wonderbar, but vee must alvays defeat zee enemy. Medals are for zee losers!

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Shock as Newcastle fans love most successful manager of the last 50 years.

 

Nowt to do with that, i love Keegan, but to say it isn't about winning trophies is ridiculous.

 

Eh? No one is a Newcastle fan if it’s about trophies. You enjoy the good times when they come and if a trophy is added, even better. If one doesn’t come, does it dismiss those good times? Absolutely not. Yorker’s post is spot on. KK didn’t choose to fall at the final hurdle unfortunately it happened but f*** me, implying he failed is beyond the pail.

 

Of course it doesn't dismiss those good times, i enjoyed the Bobby era, but it f***ing hurt to not win the Uefa Cup or FA Cup, how much better would it have been if we DID win something is all i'm saying.

 

Some people are going on like winning is for losers.

 

No they’re not and no you weren’t but of course it would’ve been better. No one is arguing against that.

 

I’ve still, before or after, never seen a goal celebrated like Lee in that SF.

 

I was on those seats near the front that had no backrest and hardly any slope, i saw hardly any of the game as everyone was obviously standing and i was 9 and short, i somehow managed to see Lee's goal though (random big Geordie next to me lifted me up so i could see some of the game).

 

 

 

Would you swap that experience for the thrill of finishing 5th under Pardew, though?

 

 

[ToonArmy1892]

Shock as Newcastle fans love most successful manager of the last 50 years.

 

Nowt to do with that, i love Keegan, but to say it isn't about winning trophies is ridiculous.

 

Eh? No one is a Newcastle fan if it’s about trophies. You enjoy the good times when they come and if a trophy is added, even better. If one doesn’t come, does it dismiss those good times? Absolutely not. Yorker’s post is spot on. KK didn’t choose to fall at the final hurdle unfortunately it happened but f*** me, implying he failed is beyond the pail.

 

Of course it doesn't dismiss those good times, i enjoyed the Bobby era, but it f***ing hurt to not win the Uefa Cup or FA Cup, how much better would it have been if we DID win something is all i'm saying.

 

Some people are going on like winning is for losers.

 

No they’re not and no you weren’t but of course it would’ve been better. No one is arguing against that.

 

I’ve still, before or after, never seen a goal celebrated like Lee in that SF.

 

I was on those seats near the front that had no backrest and hardly any slope, i saw hardly any of the game as everyone was obviously standing and i was 9 and short, i somehow managed to see Lee's goal though (random big Geordie next to me lifted me up so i could see some of the game).

 

 

 

Would you swap that experience for the thrill of finishing 5th under Pardew, though?

 

No because neither equaled winning anything 

[Disco]

Shock as Newcastle fans love most successful manager of the last 50 years.

 

Nowt to do with that, i love Keegan, but to say it isn't about winning trophies is ridiculous.

 

Eh? No one is a Newcastle fan if it’s about trophies. You enjoy the good times when they come and if a trophy is added, even better. If one doesn’t come, does it dismiss those good times? Absolutely not. Yorker’s post is spot on. KK didn’t choose to fall at the final hurdle unfortunately it happened but f*** me, implying he failed is beyond the pail.

 

Of course it doesn't dismiss those good times, i enjoyed the Bobby era, but it f***ing hurt to not win the Uefa Cup or FA Cup, how much better would it have been if we DID win something is all i'm saying.

 

Some people are going on like winning is for losers.

 

No they’re not and no you weren’t but of course it would’ve been better. No one is arguing against that.

 

I’ve still, before or after, never seen a goal celebrated like Lee in that SF.

 

I was on those seats near the front that had no backrest and hardly any slope, i saw hardly any of the game as everyone was obviously standing and i was 9 and short, i somehow managed to see Lee's goal though (random big Geordie next to me lifted me up so i could see some of the game). Was with me mam who couldn't lift me.

 

 

 

Likewise, Wembley was and still is absolutely gash. The bloke next me I didn’t see for 15 minutes after as he got carried forward and came back cut to fuck. On the flip side the bloke infront slept through the whole game.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Shock as Newcastle fans love most successful manager of the last 50 years.

 

Nowt to do with that, i love Keegan, but to say it isn't about winning trophies is ridiculous.

 

Eh? No one is a Newcastle fan if it’s about trophies. You enjoy the good times when they come and if a trophy is added, even better. If one doesn’t come, does it dismiss those good times? Absolutely not. Yorker’s post is spot on. KK didn’t choose to fall at the final hurdle unfortunately it happened but f*** me, implying he failed is beyond the pail.

 

Of course it doesn't dismiss those good times, i enjoyed the Bobby era, but it f***ing hurt to not win the Uefa Cup or FA Cup, how much better would it have been if we DID win something is all i'm saying.

 

Some people are going on like winning is for losers.

 

No they’re not and no you weren’t but of course it would’ve been better. No one is arguing against that.

 

I’ve still, before or after, never seen a goal celebrated like Lee in that SF.

 

I was on those seats near the front that had no backrest and hardly any slope, i saw hardly any of the game as everyone was obviously standing and i was 9 and short, i somehow managed to see Lee's goal though (random big Geordie next to me lifted me up so i could see some of the game).

 

 

 

Would you swap that experience for the thrill of finishing 5th under Pardew, though?

 

No because neither equaled winning anything 

 

So you’re left empty, only a trophy will fill that black hole?

 

Hello darkness my old friend...

[ToonArmy1892]

Shock as Newcastle fans love most successful manager of the last 50 years.

 

Nowt to do with that, i love Keegan, but to say it isn't about winning trophies is ridiculous.

 

Eh? No one is a Newcastle fan if it’s about trophies. You enjoy the good times when they come and if a trophy is added, even better. If one doesn’t come, does it dismiss those good times? Absolutely not. Yorker’s post is spot on. KK didn’t choose to fall at the final hurdle unfortunately it happened but f*** me, implying he failed is beyond the pail.

 

Of course it doesn't dismiss those good times, i enjoyed the Bobby era, but it f***ing hurt to not win the Uefa Cup or FA Cup, how much better would it have been if we DID win something is all i'm saying.

 

Some people are going on like winning is for losers.

 

No they’re not and no you weren’t but of course it would’ve been better. No one is arguing against that.

 

I’ve still, before or after, never seen a goal celebrated like Lee in that SF.

 

I was on those seats near the front that had no backrest and hardly any slope, i saw hardly any of the game as everyone was obviously standing and i was 9 and short, i somehow managed to see Lee's goal though (random big Geordie next to me lifted me up so i could see some of the game).

 

 

 

Would you swap that experience for the thrill of finishing 5th under Pardew, though?

 

No because neither equaled winning anything 

 

So you’re left empty, only a trophy will fill that black hole?

 

Hello darkness my old friend...

 

It would f***ing help like.