Benitez's Transfer Record, Hit or Miss?

[Nobby]

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/72145499.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=8AF8AF6A335E5B0868AEC70602C7F28E

[Cajun]

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/72145499.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=8AF8AF6A335E5B0868AEC70602C7F28E

 

So he does finally get to the ground then? Normally turned over half way through an attempt!

[Ally]

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/72145499.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=8AF8AF6A335E5B0868AEC70602C7F28E

 

 

"Arghh, the ball!"

[Guest kingdawson]

Was absolutly brilliant for us last season (and the season before) and would have got goalkeeper of the year if it wasnt for Cech. Not doing as well this season but has saved us quite a few times. Shit at distance shots though.

[Cajun]

Was absolutly brilliant for us last season (and the season before) and would have got goalkeeper of the year if it wasnt for Cech. Not doing as well this season but has saved us quite a few times. Shit at distance shots though.

 

Or backpasses  bluewink.gif

[Nobby]

Was absolutly brilliant for us last season (and the season before) and would have got goalkeeper of the year if it wasnt for Cech. Not doing as well this season but has saved us quite a few times. Shit at distance shots though.

...AND PASS BACKS

[tmonkey]

Put Reina behind Newcastle's defence, and we would concede goals left, right and centre - much more than we already do.

 

Put Given behind Liverpool's defence, and theyd be alot harder to score against. Extremely few easy goals because the number of keeping mistakes would go down considerably, and anything that "should" be saved would be saved because thats what Given excells at - not a truly world class keeper like Buffon or Cassillas for example, but like them its extremely rare to see anything saveable go in.

 

Given is definately better, just like Liverpool's defence is definately better than ours.

[Cajun]

Put Reina behind Newcastle's defence, and we would concede goals left, right and centre - much more than we already do.

 

Put Given behind Liverpool's defence, and theyd be alot harder to score against. Extremely few easy goals because the number of keeping mistakes would go down considerably, and anything that "should" be saved would be saved because thats what Given excells at - not a truly world class keeper like Buffon or Cassillas for example, but like them its extremely rare to see anything saveable go in.

 

Given is definately better, just like Liverpool's defence is definately better than ours.

 

Thats the thing, what Given doesn't do very well is something he can get away with, what he excels in is something that often wins us games.

 

Its like writing off Van Nistlerooy because he rarely scores from outside the area and isn't exactly quick!

[Guest Rushian]

Was absolutly brilliant for us last season (and the season before) and would have got goalkeeper of the year if it wasnt for Cech.

 

Reina won keeper of the year though?

[Wullie]

Was absolutly brilliant for us last season (and the season before) and would have got goalkeeper of the year if it wasnt for Cech.

 

Reina won keeper of the year though?

 

As voted for by who exactly?

[Cajun]

Was absolutly brilliant for us last season (and the season before) and would have got goalkeeper of the year if it wasnt for Cech. Not doing as well this season but has saved us quite a few times. Shit at distance shots though.

 

Im sure Shay won a keeper of the year award for the premier league last season.

 

Fact is keepers like Robinson, Reina et all are good on their day but "their day" is every day for Given!

[Dave]

Was absolutly brilliant for us last season (and the season before) and would have got goalkeeper of the year if it wasnt for Cech. Not doing as well this season but has saved us quite a few times. Shit at distance shots though.

 

Im sure Shay won a keeper of the year award for the premier league last season.

 

Fact is keepers like Robinson, Reina et all are good on their day but "their day" is every day for Given!

 

Certainly was: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4935884.stm

 

Player of the Year:

Steven Gerrard (Liverpool)

 

Young Player of the Year:

Wayne Rooney (Manchester United)

 

Premiership Team of the Year:

Shay Given (Newcastle), Pascal Chimbonda (Wigan), John Terry (Chelsea), Jamie Carragher (Liverpool), William Gallas (Chelsea), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), Joe Cole (Chelsea), Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United), Thierry Henry (Arsenal), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United).

[Cajun]

Was absolutly brilliant for us last season (and the season before) and would have got goalkeeper of the year if it wasnt for Cech. Not doing as well this season but has saved us quite a few times. Shit at distance shots though.

 

Im sure Shay won a keeper of the year award for the premier league last season.

 

Fact is keepers like Robinson, Reina et all are good on their day but "their day" is every day for Given!

 

Certainly was: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4935884.stm

 

Player of the Year:

Steven Gerrard (Liverpool)

 

Young Player of the Year:

Wayne Rooney (Manchester United)

 

Premiership Team of the Year:

Shay Given (Newcastle), Pascal Chimbonda (Wigan), John Terry (Chelsea), Jamie Carragher (Liverpool), William Gallas (Chelsea), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), Joe Cole (Chelsea), Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United), Thierry Henry (Arsenal), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United).

 

Thought so 

[Guest optimistic nit]

look rushian, i'm not some deluded fan who thinks that newcastle are still a big club, or that our backroom staff deserve anything more than relegation this term, but what you say about given is absolutly laughable. He's light years ahead of reina, surely you can admit that, although you do beat us at every other position, given offers us so much more than reina offers you, and when he was that age he didn't make nearly as many blunders. I usually don't like being drawn into these childish "this player is soooooooooooo much better than yours" 'debates', but your stance is laughable on this one. sorry lyke

[Guest optimistic nit]

thing about robinson is that he's been blessed with a good shot stopping body. its like neville southall (although he was a bit before my time). he's shit at long distance shots because of his physique, but when its 1 on 1 its like putting a couple of elephants in goal. you can't get through given is a small fucker, and still manages to excell in pretty much every goalkeeping aspect.

[tmonkey]

Put Reina behind Newcastle's defence, and we would concede goals left, right and centre - much more than we already do.

 

Put Given behind Liverpool's defence, and theyd be alot harder to score against. Extremely few easy goals because the number of keeping mistakes would go down considerably, and anything that "should" be saved would be saved because thats what Given excells at - not a truly world class keeper like Buffon or Cassillas for example, but like them its extremely rare to see anything saveable go in.

 

Given is definately better, just like Liverpool's defence is definately better than ours.

 

Thats the thing, what Given doesn't do very well is something he can get away with, what he excels in is something that often wins us games.

 

Its like writing off Van Nistlerooy because he rarely scores from outside the area and isn't exactly quick!

 

Aye, spot on.

 

Given definately has weaknesses, and they do lead to a goal once in a blue moon. For example, hes piss poor when it comes to penalties, in comparison to keepers like Buffon who actually excell at saving them hes a novice.

 

As another example, if a cross comes in well flighted into the penalty box, and an opponent meets the ball with a good header getting it low either side of Given so that its "unsaveable", Given will concede. Other keepers, who might be considered better, will get their fingertips to those "unsaveable" shots (not literally unsaveable, but onces youd expect a keeper to have no chance in saving).

 

Thats not what Given is about, and it doesnt really matter, because penalties and "unsaveable" goals arent frequent - its the shots on target that are just about saveable, or the shots that have an awkward swerve or bounce, or the crosses that should end up in the keepers' hands, or the through balls that should be cleared by the keeper, or when players are in a one-on-one with Shay - all of those are extremely frequent, and Given down the years has been so utterly efficient and consistent at "winning" in all those situations that it imo gives him an advantage over keepers like Lehman, Van der Sar, Cech, Reina etc, because they havent shown the same level of consistency or efficiency at dealing with all those basic parts of goalkeeping as Shay has shown, despite being behind considerably better defences.

 

Its not to say Given is perfect, hes bound to make a mistake once in a while, but including those mistakes hes still alot more consistent/efficient than most others, and thats all you truly need in a keeper for a top side. Not suprised that he wanted out a while ago, but also not too suprised that hes not at a top side already. The likes of Lehman and VD Sar are just about good enough for their respective teams to win trophies with them - from their point of view, yes, Given would most likely be an improvement, but not a 10mill+ improvement, which is what I expect he'd cost, money which could be used to fund big signings for other positions. Apart from Buffon (who imo is a wonder keeper, no weaknesses and is very good in every department), extremely few top sides buy keepers for anything approaching 8-10 mill, they all tend to scrape by with what theyve got and whatever they can land on the cheap. Look at Barcelona - theyve got a poor keeper overall in Valdes, without a doubt their weakest link, yet wont spend anything in that department.

[Nobby]

Put Reina behind Newcastle's defence, and we would concede goals left, right and centre - much more than we already do.

 

Put Given behind Liverpool's defence, and theyd be alot harder to score against. Extremely few easy goals because the number of keeping mistakes would go down considerably, and anything that "should" be saved would be saved because thats what Given excells at - not a truly world class keeper like Buffon or Cassillas for example, but like them its extremely rare to see anything saveable go in.

 

Given is definately better, just like Liverpool's defence is definately better than ours.

 

Thats the thing, what Given doesn't do very well is something he can get away with, what he excels in is something that often wins us games.

 

Its like writing off Van Nistlerooy because he rarely scores from outside the area and isn't exactly quick!

 

Aye, spot on.

 

Given definately has weaknesses, and they do lead to a goal once in a blue moon. For example, hes piss poor when it comes to penalties, in comparison to keepers like Buffon who actually excell at saving them hes a novice.

 

As another example, if a cross comes in well flighted into the penalty box, and an opponent meets the ball with a good header getting it low either side of Given so that its "unsaveable", Given will concede. Other keepers, who might be considered better, will get their fingertips to those "unsaveable" shots (not literally unsaveable, but onces youd expect a keeper to have no chance in saving).

 

Thats not what Given is about, and it doesnt really matter, because penalties and "unsaveable" goals arent frequent - its the shots on target that are just about saveable, or the shots that have an awkward swerve or bounce, or the crosses that should end up in the keepers' hands, or the through balls that should be cleared by the keeper, or when players are in a one-on-one with Shay - all of those are extremely frequent, and Given down the years has been so utterly efficient and consistent at "winning" in all those situations that it imo gives him an advantage over keepers like Lehman, Van der Sar, Cech, Reina etc, because they havent shown the same level of consistency or efficiency at dealing with all those basic parts of goalkeeping as Shay has shown, despite being behind considerably better defences.

 

Its not to say Given is perfect, hes bound to make a mistake once in a while, but including those mistakes hes still alot more consistent/efficient than most others, and thats all you truly need in a keeper for a top side. Not suprised that he wanted out a while ago, but also not too suprised that hes not at a top side already. The likes of Lehman and VD Sar are just about good enough for their respective teams to win trophies with them - from their point of view, yes, Given would most likely be an improvement, but not a 10mill+ improvement, which is what I expect he'd cost, money which could be used to fund big signings for other positions. Apart from Buffon (who imo is a wonder keeper, no weaknesses and is very good in every department), extremely few top sides buy keepers for anything approaching 8-10 mill, they all tend to scrape by with what theyve got and whatever they can land on the cheap. Look at Barcelona - theyve got a poor keeper overall in Valdes, without a doubt their weakest link, yet wont spend anything in that department.

 

[Guest Rafa]

Put Reina behind Newcastle's defence, and we would concede goals left, right and centre - much more than we already do.

 

Put Given behind Liverpool's defence, and theyd be alot harder to score against. Extremely few easy goals because the number of keeping mistakes would go down considerably, and anything that "should" be saved would be saved because thats what Given excells at - not a truly world class keeper like Buffon or Cassillas for example, but like them its extremely rare to see anything saveable go in.

 

Given is definately better, just like Liverpool's defence is definately better than ours.

 

That kinda shows an ignorance towards how different teams play though tbh.

 

Truth is -

 

Reina is better for us, Given is better for you. Sometimes the simple thing to do is admit each team has the best goalie for their teams strenghts. There is no need for the big discussions.

 

We play with a far higher defensive line than Newcastle, so we need a 'sweeper keeper type like Reina to allow us to do that. Given isn't that sort of keeper, so why do you think we'd be harder to score against with a goalie who wouldn't work in our team?  This is why Reina is perfect for us, and why Given, as good as he is, wouldn't be as good for us.

 

Really, sometimes - just lets be happy with what we have without having to try and make our players to be something they aren't!  Our teams play different styles, we have very different goalies,which suit our needs. Given wouldn't suit our needs. Reina wouldn't suit Roeder's type of football.

[Baggio]

If he was as good as everyone in Geordieland says he'd have been off like a shot years ago.

 

So you're saying he can't be that good if he's still at Newcastle?

 

Fuck off and take your sweeper keeper bollocks with you.

[Wullie]

If he was as good as everyone in Geordieland says he'd have been off like a shot years ago.

 

So you're saying he can't be that good if he's still at Newcastle?

 

Fuck off and take your sweeper keeper bollocks with you.

 

I agree.

 

"Sweeper keeper" ffs.

[Guest Rafa]

don't worry, we'll take his bollocks and the rest of him too

 

Surely, you football experts have heard of sweeper keepers before right? Or are you playing ignorant for some reason I wonder?  bluewink.gif

[Guest Rafa]

 

 

Think Benitez has done a very good job in the transfer market but i do not rate Reina at all.

Given >>>>>>>> robinson>>>>>>>>>>>> Reina IMHO

 

Robinson just isn't a very good goalie. There isn't even a comparison to be made. Given and Reina are far superior to that lumbering oaf.  As most goalies in the league, he can be a decent shot stopper, but that is where it finishes with him.

[Wullie]

Google search: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=sweeper+keeper&btnG=Search&meta=

 

Most of the results on the first two pages at least are from Liverpool websites.  Face it, you've made up a term and expect the rest of football to follow.

[Guest Rafa]

Google search: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=sweeper+keeper&btnG=Search&meta=

 

Most of the results on the first two pages at least are from Liverpool websites.  Face it, you've made up a term and expect the rest of football to follow.

 

 

so before you read this thread, you'd never heard that term? Wonderful stuff

[tmonkey]

Put Reina behind Newcastle's defence, and we would concede goals left, right and centre - much more than we already do.

 

Put Given behind Liverpool's defence, and theyd be alot harder to score against. Extremely few easy goals because the number of keeping mistakes would go down considerably, and anything that "should" be saved would be saved because thats what Given excells at - not a truly world class keeper like Buffon or Cassillas for example, but like them its extremely rare to see anything saveable go in.

 

Given is definately better, just like Liverpool's defence is definately better than ours.

 

That kinda shows an ignorance towards how different teams play though tbh.

 

Truth is -

 

Reina is better for us, Given is better for you. Sometimes the simple thing to do is admit each team has the best goalie for their teams strenghts. There is no need for the big discussions.

 

We play with a far higher defensive line than Newcastle, so we need a 'sweeper keeper type like Reina to allow us to do that. Given isn't that sort of keeper, so why do you think we'd be harder to score against with a goalie who wouldn't work in our team?  This is why Reina is perfect for us, and why Given, as good as he is, wouldn't be as good for us.

 

Really, sometimes - just lets be happy with what we have without having to try and make our players to be something they aren't!  Our teams play different styles, we have very different goalies,which suit our needs. Given wouldn't suit our needs. Reina wouldn't suit Roeder's type of football.

 

Ive always seen sweeping to be one of Given's strongest attributes. Hes always been very quick and alert to any balls played through when the defence has pushed up, he actually has more problems when the defence is playing deep because of the odd communication problem that happens once in a while - in fact, im not sure hes ever had any problems at all when its come to mopping up quickly, which he has had to do many a time and always done excellently. Add the considerably safer hands when dealing with crosses, considerably less mistakes, and considerably better shot stopping, then I can only say that ive not seen the same Reina you have for you to be considering him to be better.

 

Reina does sweep more aggressively, but as you say, Liverpool require him to. How do you know Given wouldnt be just as good in that department (which imo he is, as proven for us whenever hes needed to be)? Given is a (relatively) small, agile, smart goalkeeper, great concentration, good at clearing aimlessly, and unless you want to put someone with Dyer's frame in goal for pace, then thats an ideal build and set of attributes for a "sweeper keeper".

 

It may be that one keeper is better for one team, and the other better for another team - its obviously a subjective discussion, no way to tell unless a swap were to take place - but imo its more a case of Liverpool fans not wanting to accept that Given is a better keeper then what they have.