Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[cp40]

Its boring as fuck watching a club die.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Its boring as fuck watching a club die.

 

Not sure boring is the word I'd choose...

[Guest firetotheworks]

Aye, as much as I love Rafa I cant have him ahead of Robson as a coach like.

 

His coaching level is above Keegan’s though but he doesn’t have Keegan’s enthusiasm and charisma which was his main strength.

 

What would Robson have done with this bunch of players? Much as I admire him and what he did here, I don't think he could have done it without some bloody good players. Robson played a better brand of football no doubt, but you still need quality to do that. If Rafa had some decent players to work with, I think we'd be seeing much better football right now.

 

Absolute bullshit this post, Bobby turned Andy Obrien,Titus Bramble,Nikos Dabizas,Aaron Hughes, Andy Griffin, Shola and Lua Lua into champions league players, all them players punched well above their weight and all because of one mans ability

 

In the same way that Rafa turned Jimi Traore into a 'Champions League player' - Just because they played in the Champions League, it doesn't mean they've been 'changed' into a player on that level. We were in the Champions League because of the likes of Robert, Bellamy, Shearer, Dyer, Speed, Solano etc.

[Gottlob]

The original point wasn't about who has won most honours, it was a slightly absurd segue from a discussion about how Rafa keeps our goal difference down to the assertion that he's the best coach we've had in modern history. There's no doubt he's a fantastic manager with one of the best résumés in the game, and I'm delighted we have him, and of course he doesn't have anything like the resources Keegan and Robson had and works in a more difficult environment. But for all the trophies he's won he has never transformed a team in the way that Keegan and arguably Robson too transformed us: from the verge of the third tier to Premier League title contenders in Keegan's case, and from a bottom-half rabble to the Champions League places in Robson's.

 

What does coaching mean in the original context? Is it the banal reduction of tactical competence to defensive solidity? It's much harder in my view to build a coherent side that plays attacking football. How many players have markedly improved for us under Benitez? Keegan turned relative journeymen like Lee, Beresford, Venison, Sellars, and Fox into some of the best players in the country in their respective positions, brought on youngsters like Clark, Elliott, and Watson, helped Howey in his transformation from Newcastle reserve centre forward to England international centre back, and allowed a young Andy Cole to fulfill his enormous potential.

 

If a proper comparison isn't possible, perhaps it's best not to make one, but I find it baffling how some fans enduring our current situation can find it within themselves to downgrade the great times and the great managers of our recent past.

[Guest ElCid]

The original point wasn't about who has won most honours, it was a slightly absurd segue from a discussion about how Rafa keeps our goal difference down to the assertion that he's the best coach we've had in modern history. There's no doubt he's a fantastic manager with one of the best résumés in the game, and I'm delighted we have him, and of course he doesn't have anything like the resources Keegan and Robson had and works in a more difficult environment. But for all the trophies he's won he has never transformed a team in the way that Keegan and arguably Robson too transformed us: from the verge of the third tier to Premier League title contenders in Keegan's case, and from a bottom-half rabble to the Champions League places in Robson's.

 

What does coaching mean in the original context? Is it the banal reduction of tactical competence to defensive solidity? It's much harder in my view to build a coherent side that plays attacking football. How many players have markedly improved for us under Benitez? Keegan turned relative journeymen like Lee, Beresford, Venison, Sellars, and Fox into some of the best players in the country in their respective positions, brought on youngsters like Clark, Elliott, and Watson, helped Howey in his transformation from Newcastle reserve centre forward to England international centre back, and allowed a young Andy Cole to fulfill his enormous potential.

 

If a proper comparison isn't possible, perhaps it's best not to make one, but I find it baffling how some fans enduring our current situation can find it within themselves to downgrade the great times and the great managers of our recent past.

 

Agreed

[geordiedean]

The original point wasn't about who has won most honours, it was a slightly absurd segue from a discussion about how Rafa keeps our goal difference down to the assertion that he's the best coach we've had in modern history. There's no doubt he's a fantastic manager with one of the best résumés in the game, and I'm delighted we have him, and of course he doesn't have anything like the resources Keegan and Robson had and works in a more difficult environment. But for all the trophies he's won he has never transformed a team in the way that Keegan and arguably Robson too transformed us: from the verge of the third tier to Premier League title contenders in Keegan's case, and from a bottom-half rabble to the Champions League places in Robson's.

 

What does coaching mean in the original context? Is it the banal reduction of tactical competence to defensive solidity? It's much harder in my view to build a coherent side that plays attacking football. How many players have markedly improved for us under Benitez? Keegan turned relative journeymen like Lee, Beresford, Venison, Sellars, and Fox into some of the best players in the country in their respective positions, brought on youngsters like Clark, Elliott, and Watson, helped Howey in his transformation from Newcastle reserve centre forward to England international centre back, and allowed a young Andy Cole to fulfill his enormous potential.

 

If a proper comparison isn't possible, perhaps it's best not to make one, but I find it baffling how some fans enduring our current situation can find it within themselves to downgrade the great times and the great managers of our recent past.

 

Absolutely bang on this post well done

 

As much as I like Rafa hes not even in the same bracket as Keegan and Robson for me. Them 2 gave me the happiest and best times ive had in 40 years of supporting NUFC. These 2 get praise and rightfully so but to say Rafa is better is absolutely absurd

[TRon]

The original point wasn't about who has won most honours, it was a slightly absurd segue from a discussion about how Rafa keeps our goal difference down to the assertion that he's the best coach we've had in modern history. There's no doubt he's a fantastic manager with one of the best résumés in the game, and I'm delighted we have him, and of course he doesn't have anything like the resources Keegan and Robson had and works in a more difficult environment. But for all the trophies he's won he has never transformed a team in the way that Keegan and arguably Robson too transformed us: from the verge of the third tier to Premier League title contenders in Keegan's case, and from a bottom-half rabble to the Champions League places in Robson's.

 

What does coaching mean in the original context? Is it the banal reduction of tactical competence to defensive solidity? It's much harder in my view to build a coherent side that plays attacking football. How many players have markedly improved for us under Benitez? Keegan turned relative journeymen like Lee, Beresford, Venison, Sellars, and Fox into some of the best players in the country in their respective positions, brought on youngsters like Clark, Elliott, and Watson, helped Howey in his transformation from Newcastle reserve centre forward to England international centre back, and allowed a young Andy Cole to fulfill his enormous potential.

 

If a proper comparison isn't possible, perhaps it's best not to make one, but I find it baffling how some fans enduring our current situation can find it within themselves to downgrade the great times and the great managers of our recent past.

 

It's not a case of downgrading anyone, you can make a great case for Keegan and Robson being the best managers we've ever had, and you can also make one for Rafa if you consider what he's won in the game, which is probably more than both of the other two. That's not to say Rafa is above criticism, it could even be that he is past his best and his methods are now outdated. But how can you tell unless he is given the sort of quality that Keegan and Robson had in their years here? Even Keegan quit once he realised he was going to get bargain basement players who would end up wrecking his reputation.

[Guest firetotheworks]

 

 

The original point wasn't about who has won most honours, it was a slightly absurd segue from a discussion about how Rafa keeps our goal difference down to the assertion that he's the best coach we've had in modern history. There's no doubt he's a fantastic manager with one of the best résumés in the game, and I'm delighted we have him, and of course he doesn't have anything like the resources Keegan and Robson had and works in a more difficult environment. But for all the trophies he's won he has never transformed a team in the way that Keegan and arguably Robson too transformed us: from the verge of the third tier to Premier League title contenders in Keegan's case, and from a bottom-half rabble to the Champions League places in Robson's.

 

What does coaching mean in the original context? Is it the banal reduction of tactical competence to defensive solidity? It's much harder in my view to build a coherent side that plays attacking football. How many players have markedly improved for us under Benitez? Keegan turned relative journeymen like Lee, Beresford, Venison, Sellars, and Fox into some of the best players in the country in their respective positions, brought on youngsters like Clark, Elliott, and Watson, helped Howey in his transformation from Newcastle reserve centre forward to England international centre back, and allowed a young Andy Cole to fulfill his enormous potential.

 

If a proper comparison isn't possible, perhaps it's best not to make one, but I find it baffling how some fans enduring our current situation can find it within themselves to downgrade the great times and the great managers of our recent past.

 

Rafa's never transformed a team like Keegan and Robson did? He won two La Ligas with Valencia, going from 5th to 1st both times and won the CL with probably the most limited CL winning squad I've ever seen.

 

I don't think anyone's downgrading anything. What Keegan and Robson both did was incredible, but would have been impossible without money to spend on the players that transformed the team. To me it's a pretty basic observation that Rafa's the best coach we've had in the modern era just from a cursory glance at all three's overall achievements in football, and not just their incomparable achievements at Newcastle.

[Happinesstan]

Aye. Rafa does have the required quality to replicate the work of KK and SBR, but he doesn't have the required tools.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Where Rafa excels is that we won’t get many thrashings or go on huge losing steaks and defensively we will always be hard to beat. In one off games I believe he is capable of masterminding a result better than anyone or better than most and I’d include KK and Bobby in that. For us now that’s not getting thrashed off day City, being able to beat Man Utd/Arsenal/Chelsea in a one off game and finishing 10th with a Championship side pretty much based on his game to game management.

 

The football is dire though and it will only improve if the quality of players available to him improves and even then it won’t be vintage stuff. We would probably lose at Palace under KK or Bobby, but beat Leicester at home and we would probably lose to City comfortably, but cause them lots of problems and be far more adventurous.

 

Rafa, like those two, is very capable of transforming our club and taking it to greater heights. He needs backed though as those two both were.

 

Top managers need top players in order to do their job to the maximum of their capabilities. Rafa thus far has done an outrageous job here given the constraints and what he has had to do, promote us, keep us up, fix the club as a top-flight club in terms of its standing (we are no longer a laughing stock or a soft touch) and reconnect the fans to the club and team.

 

Above all else though he has made sure that while he is still here, fans sick and tired of Ashley and his ways, still have enough fire in their belly to drag themselves along to the match, home and away knowing it’s all in vain and like having someone like Rafa in our dugout, pointless really if this is as good as it gets.

 

In that sense he’s above someone like Bobby and on a par with KK himself.

[Away Toon]

Rafa's teams are generally defensive, dull, boring and tactical, this seasons current version has no redeeming qualities at all, unless not getting hammered is to be lauded. We all watch football to be entertained surely, if not why?

[Tubestationatmidnight]

To try and keep this shambles of a club in the premier league for now at least. It's going to be one monumental slog for survival this season and I still think a lot of our fans just don't get how bad our squad is. Cardiff and Huddersfield are goners and it's us and Brighton for the last spot.

 

Other than maybe Southampton I can't make a case for anyone else to be in relegation danger. Even Fulham seem to have too much and Burnley will sort themselves out now to be lower mid table

[Guest firetotheworks]

Not getting hammered is to be lauded though. I don't think there's some alternate timeline where this team is playing more attacking football and being in any way more successful. It seems like the idea that the players aren't good enough and Ashley's not spending anywhere near enough is slowly slipping into 'yeah, but Rafa should still be doing better' territory.

[Tubestationatmidnight]

People complaining about what Rafa is serving up baffles me. It's no different to what got us 10th last season and how we beat manure Arsenal and Chelsea.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Not getting hammered is to be lauded though. I don't think there's some alternate timeline where this team is playing more attacking football and being in any way more successful. It seems like the idea that the players aren't good enough and Ashley's not spending anywhere near enough is slowly slipping into 'yeah, but Rafa should still be doing better' territory.

 

We could be playing much better football in the final 3rd without sacrificing anything or most of which that makes us hard to beat. We are hard to beat, but we make it hard for ourselves to win games and there needs to be a balance.

 

Throughout our promotion season and a lot of home games last season we could have, had we played better going forward, collected more points.

 

I will take a 0-0 away to Palace all day long even though we were awful and showed no real ambition, but play like that at home to Leicester and I’ll say piss off and fuck that.

[Crumpy Gunt]

Rafa's teams are generally defensive, dull, boring and tactical, this seasons current version has no redeeming qualities at all, unless not getting hammered is to be lauded. We all watch football to be entertained surely, if not why?

 

This exactly.

[Tubestationatmidnight]

This seasons version is the same as 2016 and 2017 version. He hasn't just gone like this

[Tubestationatmidnight]

Not getting hammered is to be lauded though. I don't think there's some alternate timeline where this team is playing more attacking football and being in any way more successful. It seems like the idea that the players aren't good enough and Ashley's not spending anywhere near enough is slowly slipping into 'yeah, but Rafa should still be doing better' territory.

 

We could be playing much better football in the final 3rd without sacrificing anything or most of which that makes us hard to beat. We are hard to beat, but we make it hard for ourselves to win games and there needs to be a balance.

 

Throughout our promotion season and a lot of home games last season we could have, had we played better going forward, collected more points.

 

I will take a 0-0 away to Palace all day long even though we were awful and showed no real ambition, but play like that at home to Leicester and I’ll say piss off and fuck that.

 

We don't have any footballers in the final third though. Just a target men and some average "wingers" and Perez.

We rely on set pieces scraps and knock downs etc. We did last season too

[Guest firetotheworks]

Not getting hammered is to be lauded though. I don't think there's some alternate timeline where this team is playing more attacking football and being in any way more successful. It seems like the idea that the players aren't good enough and Ashley's not spending anywhere near enough is slowly slipping into 'yeah, but Rafa should still be doing better' territory.

 

We could be playing much better football in the final 3rd without sacrificing anything or most of which that makes us hard to beat. We are hard to beat, but we make it hard for ourselves to win games and there needs to be a balance.

 

Throughout our promotion season and a lot of home games last season we could have, had we played better going forward, collected more points.

 

I will take a 0-0 away to Palace all day long even though we were awful and showed no real ambition, but play like that at home to Leicester and I’ll say piss off and fuck that.

 

Based on what exactly? Even so both were tremendous successes, so it's hard to complain even if you were right, which I don't think you are, personally.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Rafa's teams are generally defensive, dull, boring and tactical, this seasons current version has no redeeming qualities at all, unless not getting hammered is to be lauded. We all watch football to be entertained surely, if not why?

 

This exactly.

 

As if you'd ever be entertained.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Not getting hammered is to be lauded though. I don't think there's some alternate timeline where this team is playing more attacking football and being in any way more successful. It seems like the idea that the players aren't good enough and Ashley's not spending anywhere near enough is slowly slipping into 'yeah, but Rafa should still be doing better' territory.

 

We could be playing much better football in the final 3rd without sacrificing anything or most of which that makes us hard to beat. We are hard to beat, but we make it hard for ourselves to win games and there needs to be a balance.

 

Throughout our promotion season and a lot of home games last season we could have, had we played better going forward, collected more points.

 

I will take a 0-0 away to Palace all day long even though we were awful and showed no real ambition, but play like that at home to Leicester and I’ll say piss off and fuck that.

 

Based on what exactly? Even so both were tremendous successes, so it's hard to complain even if you were right, which I don't think you are, personally.

 

Our often abject performances at home especially in terms of ambition in numbers getting forward, attacking threat etc. makes it all the more critical we do pick up some 0-0s away from home or beat a Man Utd in a one off game. It’s those games which enables us to stay up so you are right it was a success, but we can’t just keep puttng our faith in doing that and hoping for the same results while we draw at home to Swansea or lose at home to Leicester, both games where we are awful going forward last season. Again I’m happy with a point and a clean sheet away from home even if we are piss poor, but I want to see much more ambition at home.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Not getting hammered is to be lauded though. I don't think there's some alternate timeline where this team is playing more attacking football and being in any way more successful. It seems like the idea that the players aren't good enough and Ashley's not spending anywhere near enough is slowly slipping into 'yeah, but Rafa should still be doing better' territory.

 

We could be playing much better football in the final 3rd without sacrificing anything or most of which that makes us hard to beat. We are hard to beat, but we make it hard for ourselves to win games and there needs to be a balance.

 

Throughout our promotion season and a lot of home games last season we could have, had we played better going forward, collected more points.

 

I will take a 0-0 away to Palace all day long even though we were awful and showed no real ambition, but play like that at home to Leicester and I’ll say piss off and fuck that.

 

We don't have any footballers in the final third though. Just a target men and some average "wingers" and Perez.

We rely on set pieces scraps and knock downs etc. We did last season too

 

Just a few extra bodies in the final 3rd would be great. We are a poor team with poor players, but let’s not pretend we are the only one, even Everton despite what they have spent are a shit team. The gap isn’t that great, although we make it seem that way when we see less than 30% of possession every game, home or away whether it’s Man City or Swansea...

[Guest firetotheworks]

Cardiff aside, we're pretty much out on our own as the lowest quality team in the division imo. Everton are a strange example because they aren't shit like, they're pretty obviously in transition with the way that they play, but they have some very good players - every single one of which would walk into our side. Far too much emphasis on judging everything on form at the moment.

[Collage]

I love Keegan. He's all about inspiration, a lovable man and one of the most important individuals in the history of this club. But as a manager, you can't compare him with Rafa Benitez and Sir Bobby Robson. You just can't.

 

Sir Bobby won throphies in four countries, he won the FA and UEFA Cup with Ipswich fucking Town. He managed Barcelona. He almost took England to the World Cup final.

 

Rafa Benitez has won the Champions League, The Europa League, 2 La Ligas and more.

 

Bobby and Rafa have managed the biggest clubs in the world.

 

Kevin Keegan will be remembered as a great player, indeed he was. But he was never a great manager.

[geordiedean]

I love Keegan. He's all about inspiration, a lovable man and one of the most important individuals in the history of this club. But as a manager, you can't compare him with Rafa Benitez and Sir Bobby Robson. You just can't.

 

Sir Bobby won throphies in four countries, he won the FA and UEFA Cup with Ipswich fucking Town. He managed Barcelona. He almost took England to the World Cup final.

 

Rafa Benitez has won the Champions League, The Europa League, 2 La Ligas and more.

 

Bobby and Rafa have managed the biggest clubs in the world.

 

Kevin Keegan will be remembered as a great player, indeed he was. But he was never a great manager.

 

Ive always said that if Bobby was manager from 95 with Keegans team wed have dominated English football, Keegan was great but tactically he was poor and I do still blame him to an extent for why we didn't win the league in 96 ( The stupid points we threw away by being so fucking gung ho and at times tactically clueless Blackburn away, the Liverpool 4-3, west ham away)