Martin Súbravka

[Pilko]

People have short memories. Remember when a returning Pope sat on the bench late last season for several games despite Dubravka looking shit, then away at Man U Dubravka was at fault for two goals that arguably cost us a European place? Then Pope plays at Burnley three days later.

 

I'm glad Dubs has been steady and not made any errors but Pope is the superior keeper by a mile and should come back in soon as he's fit.

[TheBrownBottle]

Howe’s one real weakness as a manager is clinging onto players well past the point of sanity.  GK is a position which should be strengthened ASAP - which means shifting deadwood.  Dubravka has been ok recently, but again vs Arsenal they had three shots on target and Christ he made me nervous on crosses.  Totally understandable if Howe doesn’t want to lose him this window - but June should be the end of his time here if he doesn’t go. 

[Hanshithispantz]

15 minutes ago, Pilko said:

People have short memories. Remember when a returning Pope sat on the bench late last season for several games despite Dubravka looking shit, then away at Man U Dubravka was at fault for two goals that arguably cost us a European place? Then Pope plays at Burnley three days later.

 

I'm glad Dubs has been steady and not made any errors but Pope is the superior keeper by a mile and should come back in soon as he's fit.

But Dubravka isn't playing shit at the minute and Pope makes it easier for teams to press us.

 

The Martinelli chance wouldn't have happened with Pope on the potch though, so it's swings and roundabouts in a way, but it feels unnecessary to change things until Dubravka fucks up.

 

 

Edited January 10 by Hanshithispantz

[Hanshithispantz]

We're past needing to cater to Pope as our number 1 imo, we need a new keeper.

[Pilko]

Just now, Hanshithispantz said:

But Dubravka isn't playing shit at the minite and Pope makes it easier for teams to press us.

 

The Martinelli chance wouldn't have happened with Pope on the potch though, so it's swings and roundabouts in a way, but it feels unnecessary to change things until Dubravka fucks up.

 

He's not playing out of his skin either, he's barely been tested. I agree he's better with the ball at his feet than Pope but I can't shake the risk of Dubs throwing one in soon as we start conceding some meaningful chances, which will happen at some point.

 

[The Prophet]

Pope is the superior keeper, but Dubravka doesn't deserve to lose his place at present.

[The College Dropout]

I would want Pope to start against Arsenal in the 2nd leg if fit.  I thought Dubs struggled with the aerial balls.  Flapped at a few. Punched a few under no pressure.  
 

But generally I wouldn’t expect Pooe to waltz back into the start.  Dubs has brought something to the general play and if we aren’t conceding a lot of shots or crosses… Dubs might keep the shirt. 
 

If we aren’t getting a fee for Dubs we shouldn’t let him go.  

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Pope is the superior keeper, but Dubravka doesn't deserve to lose his place at present.

Agreed

[Shearergol]

Are we forgetting that Pope was attempting to punch every single ball before he got injured?

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, Pilko said:

 

He's not playing out of his skin either, he's barely been tested. I agree he's better with the ball at his feet than Pope but I can't shake the risk of Dubs throwing one in soon as we start conceding some meaningful chances, which will happen at some point.

 

Part of the reason we are conceding less shots is the calm and control Dubs brings in general play.  
 

I love Pope and never rated Dubs particularly highly.  

[Hanshithispantz]

6 minutes ago, Pilko said:

 

He's not playing out of his skin either, he's barely been tested. I agree he's better with the ball at his feet than Pope but I can't shake the risk of Dubs throwing one in soon as we start conceding some meaningful chances, which will happen at some point.

 

It's just hard to quantify how much our recent form is down to being able to trust the keeper not to launch a backpass into the Milburn stand, it could just be a coincidence, just thing there's no need to test it out until Dubravka makes a clanger.

[Menace]

One grip about this ownership I have - they really don't have a clue about Goalkeepers. If its true and we end up giving this guy a new contract - christ almighty

[Pilko]

1 minute ago, Hanshithispantz said:

It's just hard to quantify how much our recent form is down to being able to trust the keeper not to launch a backpass into the Milburn stand, it could just be a coincidence, just thing there's no need to test it out until Dubravka makes a clanger.

 

Agree that it's hard to quantify. I don't think it's a co-incidence either fwiw, you're basically weighing up the perceived value of Dubs ability with his feet on our play/form versus the perceived risk of him making a clanger as soon as he's seriously tested.

 

I've never massively rated Dubs and for me the latter outweighs the former, but others may have a different take on it.

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, Menace said:

One grip about this ownership I have - they really don't have a clue about Goalkeepers. If its true and we end up giving this guy a new contract - christ almighty

It was Keegan’a Achilles heel as well.  We don’t seem to be good at this historically  

[Menace]

Both him and Pope are not good enough for what we want to achieve. Thank you for your service, and see you later.

[The Prophet]

I assumed we were just trying to talk him into staying until the summer. Is there talk of a new deal?

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, The Prophet said:

I assumed we were just trying to talk him into staying until the summer. Is there talk of a new deal?

Apparently so 😬

[Shearergol]

So we gave Longstaff an extra year so we could get a fee for him, but if we give Dubs a contract it's a bad thing?

[54]

I was listening to the conference, and unless I just missed it, I don't remember hearing Howe say contract talks where "Ongoing", he said that from Dubravka's perspective its awkward to weigh up what to do as he has no security beyond the summer, as it is for any player that is out of contact, be that staying at the club with a new contact or moving on.

 

I also don't think him getting a new contact is a particularly heinous thing either to be honest, if you give him a new contact, and he's on less wages than currently which you imagine he would be given he's probably still on the wages he was on when he was number 1, not only are you saving money in the sort term, it gives us the option to sell him in the summer for a small fee, which will help with PSR, even if it is just slightly. 

[nufc4eva]

Maybe they think safer option keeping until summer when more options are available as probably don't want to bring a young keeper straight in now. 

 

Or they may have plans to spend some money and rather do it higher up the pitch.

[HawK]

I think Dubs should remain our no.1 until summer personally. I posted a few pages back about his tactical impact on the team. It's not just Tonali at 6 that's helped us on this run.

[Toon No9]

If we don't get a fee for Dubravka now, I'd say we should keep him untill the summer. Then replace him with Trafford and let him compete with Pope.

 

Even if Dubravka has done good in the recent games we should not give him a new contract unless he is willing to take Ruddys place and contract.

 

Time to move on as we need a new younger keeper who can be our first choice for many years.

[Lush Vlad]

35 minutes ago, Pilko said:

People have short memories. Remember when a returning Pope sat on the bench late last season for several games despite Dubravka looking shit, then away at Man U Dubravka was at fault for two goals that arguably cost us a European place? Then Pope plays at Burnley three days later.

 

I'm glad Dubs has been steady and not made any errors but Pope is the superior keeper by a mile and should come back in soon as he's fit.

 

They really do.  

 

Admittedly I don't think Pope has hit the heights of his first season for a few reasons.  But I remember when he came in some were a bit skeptical.  Then it didn't take long for so many to realise what a big upgrade he was on Dubravka.  

 

Now we have had 7 games where the team as a whole have played better, we've stumbled on a formula (Dubs has been a part of that TBF) that works and made some slight tweaks here and there.  We're conceding fuck all chances and suddenly Dubravka is great and Pope shouldn't even come back in ?  

 

Based on the last 2.5 games.  I'm not convinced this upturn in form has been as much to do with Dubravka's kicking/passing as people have been making out, either.  We've hardly tried to play like that and have more control from basically the second half of the Man U game onwards.  We have just sat in and defended a lead for the most part.  Not like he's been spraying it about and constantly playing round a press. 

 

I'm also surprised more hasn't been made of the Havertz and Timber sitters that were missed.  That's criminally bad goalkeeping (along with the defending for the Havertz one) and luckily, we weren't punished.  The offside one where he was scambling about trying to kick it.  WTF was that all about?  He was back to being rooted to his line or stuck under the ball all the while.  Albeit against a team that love set pieces and crosses.  

 

It's all hard to quantify, as others have said.  But I do think this place and fans in general have fairly short memories when it comes to their opinions on players.  It also goes to show the fine margins in football, as I think if some of the errors from the Arsenal game resulted in goals.  Would fans be so positive about how great he has been and so mad keen on him keeping his place? 

 

 

Edited January 10 by Lush Vlad

[HawK]

1 minute ago, Lush Vlad said:

 

They really do.  

 

Admittedly I don't think Pope has hit the heights of his first season for a few reasons.  But I remember when he came in some were a bit skeptical.  Then it didn't take long for so many to realise what a big upgrade he was on Dubravka.  

 

Now we have had 7 games where the team as a whole have played better, we've stumbled on a formula (Dubs has been a part of that TBF) that works and made some slight tweaks here and there.  We're conceding fuck all chances and suddenly Dubravka is great and Pope shouldn't even come back in ?  

 

Based on the last 2.5 games.  I'm not convinced this upturn in form has been as much to do with Dubravka's kicking/passing as people have been making out, either.  We've hardly tried to play like that and have more control from basically the second half of the Man U game onwards.  We have just sat in and defended a lead for the most part.  Not like he's been spraying it about and constantly playing round a press. 

 

I'm also surprised more hasn't been made of the Havertz and Timber sitters that were missed.  That's criminally bad goalkeeping and luckily, we weren't punished.  The offside one where he was scambling about trying to kick it.  WTF was that all about?  He was back to being rooted to his line or stuck under the ball all the while.  Albeit against a team that love set pieces and crosses.  

 

It's all hard to quantify, as others have said.  But I do think this place and fans in general have fairly short memories when it comes to their opinions on players.  It also goes to show the fine margins in football, as I think if some of the errors from the Arsenal game resulted in goals.  Would fans be so positive about how great he has been and so mad keen on him keeping his place? 

 

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

Pope was better in a team with a high line that needed a sweeper keeper. Dubs with a high line just doesn't work because he doesn't really leave the box.

 

With a low defensive line, and re-starting play, Dubs is the better option. He'd got good control and good long-passing as well so he can initiate either way, he's a good 2-way keeper in that regard.

 

For how we play now, for me Dubs is the better option.

 

As for the errors, he only had one save to make vs Arsenal and he made it. We've conceded 2 in 7 including games away at Man Utd, Spurs, Arsenal since he's come in. Correlation is not causation, but for me it's not a case that used to be when Longstaff played we won, but none of us could quanity why. We can clearly see what Dubs is contributing in this run.

[Menace]

15 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

So we gave Longstaff an extra year so we could get a fee for him, but if we give Dubs a contract it's a bad thing?

 

The Saudi team wants him on a free - who is realistically paying money to us for Martin Dubravka.