Raconteur Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 How did we get to a situation where we have five centre midfielders with about 200 caps between them, and we seem lost without the one who has played less than ten premier league matches? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 How did we get to a situation where we have five centre midfielders with about 200 caps between them, and we seem lost without the one who has played less than ten premier league matches? Because the other ones are average at best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Had he stayed fit I think we’d be safe by now. IMO. If Kenedy had struck his penalty properly against Cardiff, rather than fucking about, we'd be safe now. Fine margins Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Ha true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Day Gadgie Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Why do i keep hearing from people that Rafa somehow stumbled upon this kid cos we had an injury crisis? Longstaff clearly stated in one of his interviews that he went to see Rafa about getting a loan move at the start of the season and Rafa said he was going nowhere as he was going to need him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Because he didn't get a chance until there were no other choices left? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Day Gadgie Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 The point was that Rafa obviously thought he could do a job for him. He was on the bench for about 5 games before we had an injury crisis. He was being eased in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 I mean, he can rate Longstaff and also prefer a more experienced player in most games. They aren't mutually exclusive. If a manager likes a young player he doesn't necessarily chuck them straight in every game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Day Gadgie Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 I mean, he can rate Longstaff and also prefer a more experienced player in most games. They aren't mutually exclusive. If a manager likes a young player he doesn't necessarily chuck them straight in every game. ? That’s it like. Also, i think Rafa likes to show his more senior players a good amount of respect and doesn’t just dump them for a rookie if they’ve had a couple of bad games. Players will appreciate things like that i’d imagine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 I think it's pretty clear from Rafas choices and interviews about Longstaff that if we hadn't had injuries he would still not been given more than a few minutes at the tail end of games where his introduction would have little to no effect on the outcome of the game. Maybe he would get a chance once PL status had been confirmed. It doesn't matter if he rates Longstaff or not as long as he doesn't give him an opportunity. While senior players might appreciate being selected based on seniority, it will be equally frustrating for younger players who see every day in training that they are on par or better than their peers and not get an opportunity. Key is a balance between the two, but in this age of top league football, nurturing unproven talent is a risk the vast majority of managers, Rafa included, are not prepared to take unless it is blatantly obvious that they have a special player on their hands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 We can expect to use 2-3 players in each position per season so the stage was inevitably set for Longstaff to make an appearance at some point. We can never have a youngster who is completely guaranteed a certain number of games, they have to take the opportunities that are afforded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 why does it matter if he stumbled upon him or not? when he finally was called upon he looked one of our best CMs on the books. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Day Gadgie Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 I think it's pretty clear from Rafas choices and interviews about Longstaff that if we hadn't had injuries he would still not been given more than a few minutes at the tail end of games where his introduction would have little to no effect on the outcome of the game. Maybe he would get a chance once PL status had been confirmed. It doesn't matter if he rates Longstaff or not as long as he doesn't give him an opportunity. While senior players might appreciate being selected based on seniority, it will be equally frustrating for younger players who see every day in training that they are on par or better than their peers and not get an opportunity. Key is a balance between the two, but in this age of top league football, nurturing unproven talent is a risk the vast majority of managers, Rafa included, are not prepared to take unless it is blatantly obvious that they have a special player on their hands. Are you suggesting Rafa’s handling of Longstaff was wrong? I’d say judging by the lad’s performances he got it bang on. Yes i i would’ve been great if he’d come into the side earlier and played brilliantly but you can’t guarantee that would’ve happened. Longstaff came into the side without a senior player breathing down his neck and appeared to play with a freedom that he might not have had in a different situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 He didn't get it bang on because it wasn't planned. Rafa didn't really do anything wrong, but you can't say he did something good either. He didnt have anyone else to throw in so -had- to rely on a youth player. I am very certain that if we had a fringe senior player fit to play he would have gotten the nod over Longstaff at the time. It's not meant as critisism of Rafa as much as it is for player development in general these days. Too much on the line for managers (especially the calulated ones such as Rafa) to gamble on someone unproven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 He was in Shark Bar watching the champions league tonight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Day Gadgie Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 He didn't get it bang on because it wasn't planned. Rafa didn't really do anything wrong, but you can't say he did something good either. He didnt have anyone else to throw in so -had- to rely on a youth player. I am very certain that if we had a fringe senior player fit to play he would have gotten the nod over Longstaff at the time. It's not meant as critisism of Rafa as much as it is for player development in general these days. Too much on the line for managers (especially the calulated ones such as Rafa) to gamble on someone unproven. You mean someone like Saivet or Colback? Both players with tons more experience but got sent out on loan instead of Longstaff, even though Longstaff approached Rafa asking for a loan move. I agree with your 2nd paragraph about youth players in general, i just don’t think it particularly applies in this case as it’s fairly obvious Rafa knew there was a good chance he would be ready at some point this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 why does it matter if he stumbled upon him or not? when he finally was called upon he looked one of our best CMs on the books. He didn't. Longstaff featured in pre-season and Rafa managed him excellently having realised his potential (probably from last season too) by giving him the odd appearance here and there - hence why he then slotted into the side seamlessly. IMO, Rafa is also to be credited there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 The odd appearance? He didn't play until 26th of December when he got 17 minutes at the end of a 4-0 trashing by Liverpool where there was 0 risk of putting him in. After that he was out of the squad the next game, and was only put in again because of injuries/internationals not being available. Benitez said after the Burnley match that Longstaff was lucky because he got his chance "sooner rather than later because of injuries". To me that indicates that he was not in the plans to be used until there was nothing left to fight over in the league - which may never have been the case if we were still in a relegation fight. Credit to Longstaff for taking his chance, and credit to Benitez for keeping him in the side when the easy choice many other managers would have made was to give the spot back to more experienced players. To give Benitez credit for giving Longstaff an opportunity however I don't see how you can justify. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Put it simple. Would Longstaff get his chance to shine if we didn’t have injury crisis? And in that case, what would happen to Sean? What Rafa should be credited is his instructions given to Sean which helps him to settle down ASAP. However in terms of “planning for development”, no, I am with Conjo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Actively stopped him going back on loan and moved him to train with the first team, meaning when an opportunity came he was primed and ready for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 What point are people trying to make man lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Rafa is not God. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 I heard he, Rafa - if that is his real name, wouldn't put him on the bench until he renounced steak bakes in favour of carne empanadas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Actively stopped him going back on loan and moved him to train with the first team, meaning when an opportunity came he was primed and ready for it. You could argue that actively stopping him going back on loan, in the event that his opportunity didn't come, was also a gamble and it could just as well have been counter productive to his development. Rafa is irreplaceable for us at the moment. Rafa does enough good that deserves praise. He doesn't need credit for stuff that turned out well down to coincidence and a good player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 At what point does coincidence become evidence? He's done it enough times now for it to not be coincidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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