Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Fenerbahce, on loan from Al-Ahli)

[Erikse]

8 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

Hope he stays tbh.

 

His fitness is obviously an issue but maybe some sort of custom/personalised training can help. Its also kind of weird that he hasnt made the same jump in consistency and performances that 'lesser' players have.

 

 

 

 

Tactic under Bruce was: send the ball to an isolated Maxi and let him dribble his way through a bunch of players. All he had to focus on is what he does best, because he didn't even have passing options anyways. With Howe we have to move the ball much quicker between players, and I feel like Maxi is the one player which doesn't suit the new style better. His eagerness to dribble when he can pass is what Howe has been trying to work on, he even talked about it. "His decision making in terms of when to dribble and when to pass".

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Erikse

[The College Dropout]

I don't totally buy that. The whole team dribbles - A LOT. Joe, Willock, Bruno. Murphy, Almiron, Gordon are also all ball carriers.

 

This thread irks me, so I'll try and stay out after this post.

 

Personally, I want our most talented players to succeed at this club, and I'd like ASM to stay and fight for his place. I will never understand the eagerness in some quarters to move on big talents if they're willing to stay, fight and improve.

[Abacus]

Not convinced that selling St Max makes much sense to me right now. I still think he's needed for when Plan A doesn't work for at least another year - he can certainly unsettle defences and push them back 10 yards. 

 

But I'll immediately contradict myself now by saying that he's no longer indispensable like he used to be. The new indispensable players are Bruno and Joelinton - almost certainly Isak in time. I can't see many of the CL contenders in the premier league going in for ASM, and that's where we're aspiring to be.

 

So I guess that being the case IF, and only if, the right offer comes in this summer then you have to sell and reinvest better just like you would any other player in the squad.

 

Edit - currently working on my next statement of the bleeding obvious as we speak.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Abacus

[Dr Jinx]

I hope he stays despite being somewhat of a square peg in a round hole currently.

 

If he can add consistency to his game he’s almost unplayable.

 

He showed what he can do properly in less than 10 games this season. Which is why lesser lights have been in favour ahead of him.

[Erikse]

24 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I don't totally buy that. The whole team dribbles - A LOT. Joe, Willock, Bruno. Murphy, Almiron, Gordon are also all ball carriers.

 

This thread irks me, so I'll try and stay out after this post.

 

Personally, I want our most talented players to succeed at this club, and I'd like ASM to stay and fight for his place. I will never understand the eagerness in some quarters to move on big talents if they're willing to stay, fight and improve.

 

It's not about that he should never dribble, Man City players also dribble a lot. But if they dribble when they should've passed, that's something different, and that can make Pep furious. The players that you mention are picking out dribbles at the right moments.

Howe after the Man United game:

“I thought he gave a really good all-round performance on Sunday,” he said.

“He’s a natural dribbler, everyone knows that, but his decision making of when to dribble and when to pass was very good. He got an assist so the end product was there and defensively he was diligent so I am delighted with him.”

 

I read from this that Howe has been working with him on his decision making. But also that the defensive part matters, which I don't think Bruce demanded too much of. He was allowed to stay higher up under Bruce. I'm sure Bruce gave him a lot more freedom in games, because he was our only threat together with Wilson.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Erikse

[Unbelievable]

12 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I don't totally buy that. The whole team dribbles - A LOT. Joe, Willock, Bruno. Murphy, Almiron, Gordon are also all ball carriers.

 

This thread irks me, so I'll try and stay out after this post.

 

Personally, I want our most talented players to succeed at this club, and I'd like ASM to stay and fight for his place. I will never understand the eagerness in some quarters to move on big talents if they're willing to stay, fight and improve.

This is where I am. Seems many have already forgotten how bringing Isak and Maxi on turned some games for us not long ago. Those two have an excellent understanding on the pitch and are capable of making things happen individually as well as together, either starting or coming from the bench. Who else do we have that can do that?

[Shearergol]

My only issue with ASM is his fitness. It's extremely frustrating seeing him come in for 2 games, start to look like he's getting form back, then missing the next 5 through injury.

[duo]

I doubt he'll be sold. But I think of all the players he's progressed the least under Howe

[Erikse]

Just need to clarify, even though I don't think he fits perfectly in Howes system, doesn't mean that I want him gone! I'm sure he will be able to have some good run of games next season when called upon, and that Howe can work on him even more. And for sure his injuries has not helped him, because he needs consecutive games to get back into form.. When he finally hits form after a few games, he often gets injured again. Quite sad really..

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Erikse

[Sufi]

9 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

My only issue with ASM is his fitness. It's extremely frustrating seeing him come in for 2 games, start to look like he's getting form back, then missing the next 5 through injury.

One of my close friends is a physio and he told me a huge chunk of footballers have an imbalance between quad strength and hamstring. Which makes sense because its a really quad heavy sport. I could see that being the case with ASM maybe he could do some work with an expert to have a deep look into how and why he keeps getting hurt. Wouldnt hurt to drop 5-10lbs either 

[RobsonsWonderland]

Would the majority of us be excited if we were buying him today... I reckon so.

 

And when he goes will he be remembered more like Ginola, Robert, Ben Arfa then the likes of Obertan, Duff, N Zogbia? 

 

He was probably a lot of people's top player for a number of years so I can't understand the hatred he picks up... Yes there are better players in the squad now but let's not forget his best years were playing for Bruce! 

 

[JP]

Trust Howe more than i trust ASM.

 

In the sense that the club/team performance must always come first. 

 

If we'd be better off without him in Howe's view, so be it.

 

[Displayname]

19 minutes ago, JP said:

Trust Howe more than i trust ASM.

 

In the sense that the club/team performance must always come first. 

 

If we'd be better off without him in Howe's view, so be it.

 

Nothing suggests thats Howe's view though. Other than a few games after an injury he has been in the starting eleven most of the times. 

[Beth]

World class on his day, but far too injury prone and inconsistent. If we move him on and use the money to get Maddison for an extra outlay of £10M or so I think it would make sense, for all parties concerned.

 

I don't understand the hammer Gordon gets on here, he's 21 and barely featured yet many have written him off as shite. At least give him a pre season and a run of games first.....

[TRon]

1 hour ago, Erikse said:

 

Tactic under Bruce was: send the ball to an isolated Maxi and let him dribble his way through a bunch of players. All he had to focus on is what he does best, because he didn't even have passing options anyways. With Howe we have to move the ball much quicker between players, and I feel like Maxi is the one player which doesn't suit the new style better. His eagerness to dribble when he can pass is what Howe has been trying to work on, he even talked about it. "His decision making in terms of when to dribble and when to pass".

 

 

 

 

I know exactly what you mean. I've said it before, even though Maxi is trying to pass more now, you can see the effort is there, but it doesn't come naturally. His first instinct is still to hold the ball first, he's never the type to play a first time return pass for instance.

 

That said, he's such a good player, I don't see us offloading him unless we get a very decent offer. Even with his flaws he's still very dangerous, and can change a game in an instant.

[rebelrouser]

Someone posted something like this earlier, but I can't find it:

 

NUFC fans: we need someone who can unlock a defense set up in a low block.

Also NUFC fans: let's get rid of the best player able to do that.

 

I agree that it is too early to discount Anthony Gordon, but presently he is not the answer at LW. Neither is Big Joe who is better suited to play in the midfield. My guess is that the replacement cost for ASM would be more than we could sell him for at this point anyway. 

[Yorkie]

Is ASM necessarily suited to breaking down a low block? I don't see that as his strength at all tbh; I can't think of any of his eye-catching displays which came against that sort of opponent tbh, but I could be wrong.  Breaking down a low block requires a combination of attackers to break the lines: vision, good positioning, lethal quick passing, and ingenuity with the ball; individualism and dribbling ability is neutered if anything imo, because there's a constant barrier and always another defender to beat. 

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

I think he's at his most dangerous in a counter attacking side and generally in a low block teams have doubled up on him. However, there have been occasions where he has been able to get to the by-line in a way few others can and chip a cross across the 6 yard box. He also wins a lot of corners. 

[Smal]

Just now, Yorkie said:

Is ASM necessarily suited at breaking down a low block? I don't see that as his strength at all tbh; I can't think of any of his eye-catching displays which came against that sort of opponent tbh, but I could be wrong.  Breaking down a low block requires a combination of attackers to break the lines: vision, good positioning, lethal quick passing, and ingenuity with the ball; individualism and dribbling ability is neutered if anything imo, because there's a constant barrier and always another defender to beat. 

Totally agreed. His best work is nearly always when there's space to attack. 

 

He can be effective against a low block as he's our best player at getting to the byline and beyond the defence, but he still needs more coaching there imo. Still cuts inside too much. 

[Smal]

The above is also why I'd like to see Howe try him on the right. I think he'd be less predictable against a low block there and would combine really well with Trippier. 

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Miggy's give and go's tend to be better at getting in behind. It doesn't seem to be something that ASM attempts for whatever reason. 

[The College Dropout]

He's good 1v1 which is useful against a low-block. He can beat a man 1v1 and can shoot or put in a decent ball with his left foot.

 

He's better and less predictable against a low block than Almiron, Gordon & Murphy.

[buzza]

If we get offered anything above or around 30 million I think the club will sell him.

I understand his skill-set means he is a great attacking option to have available, but the way the team play and press so aggressively, it just does not suit him. I think Eddie prefers big Joe out left than maxi and he seems to get much better returns from that.

His cryptic message seems like the typical thing a footballer writes before he leaves. Will always be remembered for the good things he did...

[gbandit]

Can’t think of a single game against a low block where his style of play has been particularly effective. He still smashes his counterpart on the left to pieces but nothing tends to come of it due to how packed the other bodies are. He is doubled and tripled up on in those games. That should mean there is space for other players but either because of their numbers in defence or because of Maxi’s difficulty picking out a player with a clever pass it doesn’t come to much. I’m not criticising the lad per se as breaking down a low block is ridiculously difficult and it’s not down to one player to do it but I don’t think he’s the answer there. You need a dribbler that goes beyond his man and keeps going, not someone who goes beyond, slows down, cuts back, goes again, cuts back and then picks out a pass. Personally think Isak is our best player against a low block 

[TRon]

2 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

Miggy's give and go's tend to be better at getting in behind. It doesn't seem to be something that ASM attempts for whatever reason. 

 

That's because he doesn't want to give it once he's got it.