Relegationometer

[nufc4eva]

A couple of weeks ago I thought 36/37 would be safe but not so sure now. The title race is dead so City and Utd are going to knock off, though getting anything against them is still difficult it won't be as unlikely. And with only one Europa place up for grabs in the league (probably) could end up with a lot of the top ten having not much to play from a way out.

 

Not sure Man City can afford to "knock off" as they may drop to 4th place - if anything I think they may play better with title pressure off

[mrmojorisin75]

I think some people have painted themselves into a corner and now feel they'll look stupid by turning and saying the manager should go. That's the only explanation I can offer for those prepared to defend what has been an utter car crash of a season.

 

Only by the exceptional standards of last season though.

 

Putting aside the disappointment from yesterday's result; what have we achieved so far this season?

 

- improving the squad with the acquisition of several promising (and experienced) players in key positions.

- a reasonably lengthy return to European action after 6/7 years absence (we could have easily gone out at the group stage, given the poor performances and injury issues in the league)

- a relatively drama-free season; something to be mindful of given the off-field turbulence between club, owner and fans in the past decade. No dodgy news reports about the team/players, no front page 'ffs' headlines. Generally positive reactions to club news (wonga, excepted perhaps)

 

We've had quite a sizeable turnover of players under Pardew; almost a brand new first XI from when he took over 2 years ago. Are we really expecting all of this fluctuation to be smooth and a benefit to the players/team?

 

Expectations haven't been lowered, but there's definitely a point where some people can recognise the overall improvement of the club (and the team), even if the short-term results haven't been stellar. Perhaps it's more a case of others wanting to substantiate their initial opinions of the manager and not remembering what it was like to support a club where you didn't mind the owner/chairman/chief executive/manager/tea lady..?

 

Stu (and Inochi if you like) simple question: has the manger performed well enough for you this season?

 

to make it easier for you let's break it down into the following yes/no's, and feel free to add your own: (a) basic results (b) tactics, formations, player selection etc. © man-management (d) media

 

the reason i ask is of the points you've listed above no-one is fucking arguing against them being positives, but they're not the type of positives that put points on the table i'm afraid (neither is media mind, but i thought you'd probably want something like that in)

[Guest icemanblue]

Our form is not 'shaky as fuck', at all. I'm not ignoring the reality of the situation, I'm simply not reverting to hysterical mode based on a massively unfair defeat. If I was at a '1' during our worst form of the season, I'm hardly likely to rethink that when we're six points (plus goal difference) away from the drop.

 

nobody is reverting to hysterical mode - you repeating it doesn't make it true you know - but i'd love know what makes you so sure we're good for the points?  as i've said i think we'll scrape it but to stubbornly insist on 1 is madness, juts sheer madness

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

what i'm saying is there are very clear and present reasons that we're not likely to storm the next 8 games, a number of them have already been experienced earlier in the season and the only answer the manager had was to beg for new players, which he got...what's his answer going to be this time?  probably back to plan-shola

 

8 games is fuck all either way, i'm aware of that, and a couple of wins is possible to easily pull us away from it but to look at the scale right now and say firmly 1 you're ignoring early season history, current context, and the shite football we've played most of the season, sorry but you are

 

 

 

I think we have enough to get the points required to stay up. It's that simple, really. I don't think what has gone before has as much bearing on what will happen as you're suggesting, because, using that logic, we would never have been able to generate the form we have to pull away. We've got some difficult games, and I don't think we'll 'storm' any of them. But, I'm so sure that we'll do enough that I'm not concerned in the slightest about relegation (hence '1'). Other than Colo and Haidara, I don't think we have any major injuries, with an international break coming up.

 

Go back a couple of pages. How many people have said we're safe? Look at Gimp getting laughed at for saying he's at a '5'. Why has one defeat changed that?

[Dr Venkman]

I can't see QPR or Reading making 11 points on us like. Can Wigan gain 7? Probably aye, I think we'll see them off though.

[Teasy]

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

 

 

We didn't have Sissoko, Gouffran, Yanga-Mbiwa or Debuchy back then though.

 

We've got 12 points from our previous 8 games, IMO we'll need mo more than 7 points from the following 8 to stay up (probably more like 4-5 points though).

 

So personally I'm at a 2 on the relegationometer.

[mrmojorisin75]

Our form is not 'shaky as fuck', at all. I'm not ignoring the reality of the situation, I'm simply not reverting to hysterical mode based on a massively unfair defeat. If I was at a '1' during our worst form of the season, I'm hardly likely to rethink that when we're six points (plus goal difference) away from the drop.

 

nobody is reverting to hysterical mode - you repeating it doesn't make it true you know - but i'd love know what makes you so sure we're good for the points?  as i've said i think we'll scrape it but to stubbornly insist on 1 is madness, juts sheer madness

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

what i'm saying is there are very clear and present reasons that we're not likely to storm the next 8 games, a number of them have already been experienced earlier in the season and the only answer the manager had was to beg for new players, which he got...what's his answer going to be this time?  probably back to plan-shola

 

8 games is fuck all either way, i'm aware of that, and a couple of wins is possible to easily pull us away from it but to look at the scale right now and say firmly 1 you're ignoring early season history, current context, and the shite football we've played most of the season, sorry but you are

 

 

 

I think we have enough to get the points required to stay up. It's that simple, really. I don't think what has gone before has as much bearing on what will happen as you're suggesting, because, using that logic, we would never have been able to generate the form we have to pull away. We've got some difficult games, and I don't think we'll 'storm' any of them. But, I'm so sure that we'll do enough that I'm not concerned in the slightest about relegation (hence '1'). Other than Colo and Haidara, I don't think we have any major injuries, with an international break coming up.

 

Go back a couple of pages. How many people have said we're safe? Look at Gimp getting laughed at for saying he's at a '5'. Why has one defeat changed that?

 

i think the argument is that we didn't really generate any form, we signed some players who came in and had an immediate impact and won us some games...in fact this is precisely my fucking point and main beef with pardew - that he didn't and couldn't generate any form when things weren't going his way up to the arrival of the new bodies...therefore i see it as massively relevant to us that we're 8 games from the end of the season, not safe, and our players are dropping like flies...it's certainly conceivable we could fall into a rut again that he can't get us out of

 

to repeat though, i don't think we will, i think we'll scrape another couple of wins from the 8 games, but i have a massive issue with this 1 bullshit you and Stu peddle because quite simply the quality of our play combined with the other factors i've already outlined make us in danger of getting dragged in and therefore not a fucking 1

[mrmojorisin75]

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

 

 

We didn't have Sissoko, Gouffran, Yanga-Mbiwa or Debuchy back then though.

 

for mbiwa we've lost colo, as i've already said i don't think he's utilising sissoko correctly and think teams can nullify him as a result, agree on gouffran but then he did have quality like marveaux he chose not to play...any ideas how long debuchy will be injured for?

[brummie]

I can't see QPR or Reading making 11 points on us like. Can Wigan gain 7? Probably aye, I think we'll see them off though.

 

Redknapp knows that QPR are gone, I reckon. He desperately threw five men up front on Saturday to try to claw something back, and in his post match interview, you could tell he knew the game was up.

 

Reading are also gone, I think.

 

It is just one place to play for. Wigan are perfectly capable of making up the points, but look at yesterday, and how utterly flukey they were. Their form otherwise is awful (wasn't it two wins in the last fifteen before yesterday?)

 

I must admit, though, the fact we play Wigan on the last day of the season is nagging at the back of my mind.

[Ketsbaia]

We'll stay up but I'll not exactly crack open the champagne. If it wasnt for Europa, this season would be a complete embarassment. Cant wait for August!

[afar]

Think my number is rising again after yesterday. With all the injuries and Man shitty away (certain loss) next, if Wigan win their next game we are suddenly only 3 points ahead of the bottom 3 ! Worried again.

[mrmojorisin75]

We'll stay up but I'll not exactly crack open the champagne. If it wasnt for Europa, this season would be a complete embarassment. Cant wait for August!

 

bang on the fucking money, mind you as Stu rightly points out we've not been quite so embarrassing in the papers for a while so i suppose that sort of balances out how fucking abysmal pardiola has been from the first minute of the season eh?

 

we should be thankful

[Teasy]

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

 

 

We didn't have Sissoko, Gouffran, Yanga-Mbiwa or Debuchy back then though.

 

for mbiwa we've lost colo, as i've already said i don't think he's utilising sissoko correctly and think teams can nullify him as a result, agree on gouffran but then he did have quality like marveaux he chose not to play...any ideas how long debuchy will be injured for?

 

Yeah I was just pointing out that you were mentioning the players we'd lost since then but not the ones we've gained.  As in we've lost Coloccini, but we've gained Yanga-Mbiwa ect (and we didn't have Taylor during that terrible run of results either).  Also while I agree Sissoko isn't being used correctly and can be forced out of the game easier then he should he's still not going to be totally nullified, he'll still be a positive for us in the next 8 games.

[Guest icemanblue]

Our form is not 'shaky as fuck', at all. I'm not ignoring the reality of the situation, I'm simply not reverting to hysterical mode based on a massively unfair defeat. If I was at a '1' during our worst form of the season, I'm hardly likely to rethink that when we're six points (plus goal difference) away from the drop.

 

nobody is reverting to hysterical mode - you repeating it doesn't make it true you know - but i'd love know what makes you so sure we're good for the points?  as i've said i think we'll scrape it but to stubbornly insist on 1 is madness, juts sheer madness

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

what i'm saying is there are very clear and present reasons that we're not likely to storm the next 8 games, a number of them have already been experienced earlier in the season and the only answer the manager had was to beg for new players, which he got...what's his answer going to be this time?  probably back to plan-shola

 

8 games is fuck all either way, i'm aware of that, and a couple of wins is possible to easily pull us away from it but to look at the scale right now and say firmly 1 you're ignoring early season history, current context, and the shite football we've played most of the season, sorry but you are

 

 

 

I think we have enough to get the points required to stay up. It's that simple, really. I don't think what has gone before has as much bearing on what will happen as you're suggesting, because, using that logic, we would never have been able to generate the form we have to pull away. We've got some difficult games, and I don't think we'll 'storm' any of them. But, I'm so sure that we'll do enough that I'm not concerned in the slightest about relegation (hence '1'). Other than Colo and Haidara, I don't think we have any major injuries, with an international break coming up.

 

Go back a couple of pages. How many people have said we're safe? Look at Gimp getting laughed at for saying he's at a '5'. Why has one defeat changed that?

 

i think the argument is that we didn't really generate any form, we signed some players who came in and had an immediate impact and won us some games...in fact this is precisely my fucking point and main beef with pardew - that he didn't and couldn't generate any form when things weren't going his way up to the arrival of the new bodies...therefore i see it as massively relevant to us that we're 8 games from the end of the season, not safe, and our players are dropping like flies...it's certainly conceivable we could fall into a rut again that he can't get us out of

 

to repeat though, i don't think we will, i think we'll scrape another couple of wins from the 8 games, but i have a massive issue with this 1 bullshit you and Stu peddle because quite simply the quality of our play combined with the other factors i've already outlined make us in danger of getting dragged in and therefore not a fucking 1

 

That's your opinion which, coincidentally, I don't share. We'll just have to see how it pans out. As for the rest, well, I'm really sorry that it annoys you so greatly. However, it doesn't a change a thing and I'll just maintain my position, cheers.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

again we had that run of what 11 in 13 (or whatever) when there was no HBA & cabaye...well now we're down them, plus colo, plus whoever else for however long at the weekend...sissoko is being used incorrectly (always was imo) and teams can shut him down now they know what he's about

 

 

 

We didn't have Sissoko, Gouffran, Yanga-Mbiwa or Debuchy back then though.

 

for mbiwa we've lost colo, as i've already said i don't think he's utilising sissoko correctly and think teams can nullify him as a result, agree on gouffran but then he did have quality like marveaux he chose not to play...any ideas how long debuchy will be injured for?

 

I was just pointing out that you were mentioning the players we'd lost but not the ones we've gained.  As in yes we've lost Coloccini, but we've gained Yanga-Mbiwa (and we have Taylor doing that terrible run of results).  Also while I agree Sissoko isn't being used correctly and can be forced out of the game easier then he should he's still not going to be totally nullified, he'll still be a positive for us in the next 8 games.

 

agreed, and to be painfully repetitive i'm certainly not saying we're going down but it's going to be a hell of a lot closer than it ever should have been even with the new players you know?    we've been chronically mismanaged this season, there's no getting away from it, and i honestly fear for some people next season 'cause it's not going to get better under pardew, it really isn't

 

the tragedy being, as someone else has said, is that it'll all probably end in such a waste of great talent at the club

[mrmojorisin75]

That's your opinion which, coincidentally, I don't share. We'll just have to see how it pans out. As for the rest, well, I'm really sorry that it annoys you so greatly. However, it doesn't a change a thing and I'll just maintain my position, cheers.

 

there's no basis to your position, it should annoy everyone

 

[Guest icemanblue]

That's your opinion which, coincidentally, I don't share. We'll just have to see how it pans out. As for the rest, well, I'm really sorry that it annoys you so greatly. However, it doesn't a change a thing and I'll just maintain my position, cheers.

 

there's no basis to your position, it should annoy everyone

 

 

That's your opinion. It's cool, I can handle that.

[mrmojorisin75]

well, you don't strike me as the type to delete his account because of it like

[Stu]

We'll stay up but I'll not exactly crack open the champagne. If it wasnt for Europa, this season would be a complete embarassment. Cant wait for August!

 

bang on the fucking money, mind you as Stu rightly points out we've not been quite so embarrassing in the papers for a while so i suppose that sort of balances out how fucking abysmal pardiola has been from the first minute of the season eh?

 

we should be thankful

 

The 'embarrassment' of not being in the top 10 when missing your best players for most of the season.

 

This is almost on a par with Wullie's 'shameful' effort above.

 

I just don't get how you can be so arrogant about NUFC in the Premier League, or so taken by the 'potential' of our players (despite them seemingly not performing near top level for the last 7 months).

[Guest icemanblue]

well, you don't strike me as the type to delete his account because of it like

 

Not entirely sure what this is meant to mean?

[alexf]

I'm confident we can beat Fulham and Sunderland at home in April which should see us home.

[afar]

I'm confident we can beat Fulham and Sunderland at home in April which should see us home.

 

Fulham have proved to be a bit of a bogey team for us over the years and have been getting the odd good result here and there, just beat Spuds at their place, this weekend. We play the mackems right after a trip to Benfica, it will be a tough game and they'll obviously be up for it.

 

I'm not as convinced about that.

[mrmojorisin75]

We'll stay up but I'll not exactly crack open the champagne. If it wasnt for Europa, this season would be a complete embarassment. Cant wait for August!

 

bang on the fucking money, mind you as Stu rightly points out we've not been quite so embarrassing in the papers for a while so i suppose that sort of balances out how fucking abysmal pardiola has been from the first minute of the season eh?

 

we should be thankful

 

The 'embarrassment' of not being in the top 10 when missing your best players for most of the season.

 

This is almost on a par with Wullie's 'shameful' effort above.

 

I just don't get how you can be so arrogant about NUFC in the Premier League, or so taken by the 'potential' of our players (despite them seemingly not performing near top level for the last 7 months).

 

not sure what you mean by the bold part, you're implying i'm arrogant and think we're better than we are or something?

 

general consensus around us seems to be we have a lot of good players (see Brummie's comments for outside perspective) but are not performing*...your use of the term 'potential', does that somehow imply that you feel we don't have good enough players and the manager is battling bravely with the sub-standard tools at his disposal?

 

*from what i can see the 2 reasons for this that are offered up are (i) the manager is shit and so is the coaching or (ii) no idea, must be some voodoo jive

 

i'm a (i) fwiw, seems you're a (ii)

[Jack Flash]

I just don't get how you can be so arrogant about NUFC in the Premier League, or so taken by the 'potential' of our players (despite them seemingly not performing near top level for the last 7 months).

 

13 games left, realistically think we can expect to pick up points in all of them - maybe Citeh away is one game that could be a stretch too far but with the new boys in the squad, I genuinely don't see why they should fear anyone.

 

Not outside the realms of possibility that we can pick up another 25-30points. All depends if we decide to cut loose in the league and go for the wins (not got a lot to lose) and focus on the Europa league adventure.

 

52/55pts good enough for top 6?

 

[mrmojorisin75]

well, you don't strike me as the type to delete his account because of it like

 

Not entirely sure what this is meant to mean?

 

nowt, that you'd not be bothered

[Guest Phil K]

Our away form is vile and needs to be DRAMATICALLY improved