Nucasol Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 6 minutes ago, Infatuation Junkie said: Everyone seems to have the right idea on what we need to do to at least start scraping by and getting closer to the big six with revenue, What 99% don’t realise though is that it won’t happen. Masters probably already has 20-30 brand spanking new rules up his sleeve that are ready to be implemented if we manage to slightly start competing. PIF could quite possibly decide to pack up and fuck right off because no one in their right mind is going to sit for ten years with a new club then just as things start improving to become competitive. The line gets erased and the line gets drawn higher. Masters will not stop. He won’t be beaten. He’s pissed we were taken over by them as he done everything to stop it. This is a personal vendetta. It won’t end well. He is pulling strings and is playing god within a very lucrative market. At which point legal action might have to be used. I think the house of cards for the PL will come crashing down before that with Everton, Forest, Chelsea and potentially Leicester. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said: Yeah, agreed. I think the short-to-medium term has to be to follow Spurs’ model - buy young, quality players with an eye to moving them on for megabucks. The club already has an age policy in place for most transfers apparently, which suggests that we may well be going down that route. There’ll be a few upset punters when they realise that this means the likelihood is that the likes of Bruno, Isak etc are as likely to be sold as not. But it’s the only way to bridge the huge income gap in the immediate term. Is that model not broken now since Real and Barcelona don't splash the cash like they used to? I can think of Berbatov, Modric, Bale, Suarez and Coutinho for Spurs and Liverpool but no one in recent times. I'd say the model is now to buy young to mid-career players, get 5-6 years at their peak and then sell to Saudi when they're 31-34. Obliviously the Saudi's have enough money to start buying younger players if they wanted to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 16 minutes ago, Infatuation Junkie said: Everyone seems to have the right idea on what we need to do to at least start scraping by and getting closer to the big six with revenue, What 99% don’t realise though is that it won’t happen. Masters probably already has 20-30 brand spanking new rules up his sleeve that are ready to be implemented if we manage to slightly start competing. PIF could quite possibly decide to pack up and fuck right off because no one in their right mind is going to sit for ten years with a new club then just as things start improving to become competitive. The line gets erased and the line gets drawn higher. Masters will not stop. He won’t be beaten. He’s pissed we were taken over by them as he done everything to stop it. This is a personal vendetta. It won’t end well. He is pulling strings and is playing god within a very lucrative market. I think you’re right, and I have genuinely thought about just sacking all of this off. I don’t like state ownership of clubs, but I also don’t like the closed shop PL. It always felt possible to break into the top clubs, until the last decade or so. It’s a complete stitch-up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 30 minutes ago, Infatuation Junkie said: Everyone seems to have the right idea on what we need to do to at least start scraping by and getting closer to the big six with revenue, What 99% don’t realise though is that it won’t happen. Masters probably already has 20-30 brand spanking new rules up his sleeve that are ready to be implemented if we manage to slightly start competing. PIF could quite possibly decide to pack up and fuck right off because no one in their right mind is going to sit for ten years with a new club then just as things start improving to become competitive. The line gets erased and the line gets drawn higher. Masters will not stop. He won’t be beaten. He’s pissed we were taken over by them as he done everything to stop it. This is a personal vendetta. It won’t end well. He is pulling strings and is playing god within a very lucrative market. Masters will be gone soon. Clubs are already turning on him, even outside of FFP, his tenure has been a disaster. The other 14 will vote to have him gone, and that’s if he plays nice by letting both Chelsea, and Man City off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Guys, please understand the PL shareholders are the club, masters is an employee of the PL, he does as he’s commanded by his masters. If he happens to leave nothing will change he has no real power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BennyBlanco Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 3 hours ago, r0cafella said: This is pretty much where I am. Ultimately the other clubs are also pushing to increase revenue which is why during the Ashley years the a chasm opened between us and the big 6. So in order to progress we have to close the gap which is difficult because we are limited by FFP. We are not allowed to invest into the business because of the rules I know it’s repeated a lot but I truly can’t get over this. So basically we are left hoping for miracles, or we have to become the best traders in football to open up headroom, so when we sell a Bruno we need to find two more. This is really bang on the money. Also don’t forget that when a club does start making headway in unearthing gems and getting a bit of a momentum going on a player production conveyer belt - the top 6 circle around like vultures and start picking up the back room staff responsible, plucking them root and stem from said club and transferring them over to their own. So then the process has to start all over again. It’s absolutely fucking minging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydianMag Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 23 minutes ago, Nucasol said: At which point legal action might have to be used. I think the house of cards for the PL will come crashing down before that with Everton, Forest, Chelsea and potentially Leicester. If we, or others don’t resort to legal action then we’ll just have to be happy as an also ran, a mid to top 6-7 club that might fluke the odd cup, although lets face it we haven’t for the last 68 years. Everyone can see what’s going on now, even ordinary fans, that a cartel is well established. Smash it to fucking pieces and let the scouse and Manc twats really hate us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Just now, BennyBlanco said: This is really bang on the money. Also don’t forget that when a club does start making headway in unearthing gems and getting a bit of a momentum going on a player production conveyer belt - the top 6 circle around like vultures and start picking up the back room staff responsible, plucking them root and stem from said club and transferring them over to their own. So then the process has to start all over again. It’s absolutely fucking minging. Yes sir, actually the entire thing is just one big funnel to the top and nobody else is allowed to join the table, Sheik Mansour was the last person allowed to board that train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 4 minutes ago, r0cafella said: Guys, please understand the PL shareholders are the club, masters is an employee of the PL, he does as he’s commanded by his masters. If he happens to leave nothing will change he has no real power. It all depends on the non-big 6 clubs though. If they start getting fucked about with FFP etc, I can’t see them wanting to keep people like Masters who they will view as in their pockets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 minute ago, Stifler said: It all depends on the non-big 6 clubs though. If they start getting fucked about with FFP etc, I can’t see them wanting to keep people like Masters who they will view as in their pockets. Why would they be fucked on FFP? The big 6 are smart enough to know (FFP is the creation of the big clubs btw) that FFP is fantastic for them. Infact it’s fantastic anyone who isn’t ambitious and is happy to exist, it limits competition throughout the whole pyramid so if your backwards looking either by choice or circumstance FFP is great, your costs are limited and your competition can’t just outspend you so your market position is protected. when thinking about these financial rules throw away the “fan” hat and put on the business one. Everything then becomes crystal clear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAK Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 14 minutes ago, r0cafella said: Guys, please understand the PL shareholders are the club, masters is an employee of the PL, he does as he’s commanded by his masters. If he happens to leave nothing will change he has no real power. Correct but he’s the established clubs man. Seem to recall certain clubs where given privileged access to interview him (or was it the other guy) before appointment. If he left the “other clubs” could make moves to get in a more supportive replacement. Edited March 8 by SAK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Just now, SAK said: Correct but he’s the established clubs man. Seem to recall certain clubs where given privileged access to interview him (or was it the other guy) before appointment. If he left the “other clubs could make moves to get in a more supportive replacement. Of course he is, the big clubs are the ones pulling the strings? Why? Because that’s the deal with the devil and the cost of the more even distribution of funds. You can be absolutely certain the those cunts talk about how much money real and Barca make from tv and how they deserve more? They will also crow how much more engagement they get and how they know what’s best as they have the most revenue. It’s the nature of the beast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydianMag Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 10 minutes ago, r0cafella said: Of course he is, the big clubs are the ones pulling the strings? Why? Because that’s the deal with the devil and the cost of the more even distribution of funds. You can be absolutely certain the those cunts talk about how much money real and Barca make from tv and how they deserve more? They will also crow how much more engagement they get and how they know what’s best as they have the most revenue. It’s the nature of the beast. I’ve said it many times, all that exists in football is self interest, all the altruistic bollocks about protecting other clubs is a steaming pile of shite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 4 minutes ago, FloydianMag said: I’ve said it many times, all that exists in football is self interest, all the altruistic bollocks about protecting other clubs is a steaming pile of shite. Of course it is, if you look at the owners of the clubs they are the most ardent capitalist in the world, but they adopt socialist structures such as parachute payments and solidarity payments it’s all rather bizarre but at its core as you mention is absolute self interest. Again, what FFP is when you strip it back is cost control and the more you control your cost the more profit you make, sadly for the owners they are also extremely egotistical so these rules create a brake and help them all control costs. Ultimately they all want to make money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydianMag Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 minute ago, r0cafella said: Of course it is, if you look at the owners of the clubs they are the most ardent capitalist in the world, but they adopt socialist structures such as parachute payments and solidarity payments it’s all rather bizarre but at its core as you mention is absolute self interest. Again, what FFP is when you strip it back is cost control and the more you control your cost the more profit you make, sadly for the owners they are also extremely egotistical so these rules create a brake and help them all control costs. Ultimately they all want to make money. Therefore it’s no different to any other business sector which wouldn’t tolerate constructs like FFP and FMV. They would rapidly be challenged at a Competition Appeals Tribunal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Just now, FloydianMag said: Therefore it’s no different to any other business sector which wouldn’t tolerate constructs like FFP and FMV. They would rapidly be challenged at a Competition Appeals Tribunal. Actually, that’s where it becomes interesting because we know the league is essentially a cartel, and usually cartels will behave in the manner the league is, ie lack of competition; price fixing etc. And nobody challenges it because they all benefits from it as do cartel members. Before we came along everyone was absolutely content with the status quo. If I’m palace I know I can never compete with City so I’m just happy to sit back and enjoy the massive revenue coming in for doing rather little. The bottom line is; nobody wants to watch palace vs Brighton and everyone wants to watch Liverpool vs City and it’s these factors which give the big clubs the leverage to tilt the rules in their favour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydianMag Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 8 minutes ago, r0cafella said: Actually, that’s where it becomes interesting because we know the league is essentially a cartel, and usually cartels will behave in the manner the league is, ie lack of competition; price fixing etc. And nobody challenges it because they all benefits from it as do cartel members. Before we came along everyone was absolutely content with the status quo. If I’m palace I know I can never compete with City so I’m just happy to sit back and enjoy the massive revenue coming in for doing rather little. The bottom line is; nobody wants to watch palace vs Brighton and everyone wants to watch Liverpool vs City and it’s these factors which give the big clubs the leverage to tilt the rules in their favour. Until City were taken over they were an average club as we are. We’re being denied the right to compete as are other ambitious clubs. It needs to change and if the cartel clubs don’t like it tough, even Palace’s co owner has spoken out against the current rules. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 minute ago, FloydianMag said: Until City were taken over they were an average club as we are. We’re being denied the right to compete as are other ambitious clubs. It needs to change and if the cartel clubs don’t like it tough, even Palace’s co owner has spoken out against the current rules. I don’t expect it to change sadly, I believe Palace are having internal issues so a lot of politicking going on where they are concerned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydianMag Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 6 minutes ago, r0cafella said: I don’t expect it to change sadly, I believe Palace are having internal issues so a lot of politicking going on where they are concerned. You don’t work with cartels in any sector of business, you work to destroy them and the same applies to football or any elite sport. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucasol Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 21 minutes ago, r0cafella said: I don’t expect it to change sadly, I believe Palace are having internal issues so a lot of politicking going on where they are concerned. Textor will oust Parish soon enough. Now they have that land package for stadium works and need to expand anything that threatens that, like the proposed inclusion of infrastructure costs in FFP calcs, means they switch sides of the table to being anti FFP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 3 minutes ago, Nucasol said: Textor will oust Parish soon enough. Now they have that land package for stadium works and need to expand anything that threatens that, like the proposed inclusion of infrastructure costs in FFP calcs, means they switch sides of the table to being anti FFP. I can see that element being watered down in the future, that is actually too much even for those idiots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 6 hours ago, Nobody said: How fucking sad is that though? We were ok par with Spurs before Ashley, now we can at best get up to 60% of their income That’s just a forum members opinion though. We don't know what’s in the pipeline down the road. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Spaceman Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Remember, these aren't the rules forever. We'll either figure out how to circumnavigate these rules or we'll see them change again. I highly doubt if they change they're going to be even more restrictive, given how close Villa & Chelsea are reported to be to joining Everton & Forest. I could see a breakaway UK only Super League at some point if nothing changes from here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 1 hour ago, r0cafella said: Why would they be fucked on FFP? The big 6 are smart enough to know (FFP is the creation of the big clubs btw) that FFP is fantastic for them. Infact it’s fantastic anyone who isn’t ambitious and is happy to exist, it limits competition throughout the whole pyramid so if your backwards looking either by choice or circumstance FFP is great, your costs are limited and your competition can’t just outspend you so your market position is protected. when thinking about these financial rules throw away the “fan” hat and put on the business one. Everything then becomes crystal clear. I was on about the non-top 6 clubs. Out of them you have us, and Villa who want to kick on. You have Everton, and Forest currently under investigation and facing a points deduction for spending money to compete at their respective levels. You also have Leicester coming up who also face sanctions. You then have Palace who can’t build their new stand that they have been trying to buy land for over the past 5 years or more, and have only just bought. There is also a growing discontent with Masters over the TV deals not being as high as they would expect, as well as losing iconic sponsors such as Nike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucasol Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 49 minutes ago, r0cafella said: I can see that element being watered down in the future, that is actually too much even for those idiots. Agreed, quite Man Utd would go for it when they’ll have to sink a billion to sort the shit pile that is Old Trafford is peculiar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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