PIF, PCP, and RB Sports & Media

[ExiledGeordie]

1 minute ago, Keegans Export said:

It's based on "fair market value" so basically you can't artificially inflate the value of your sponsorship deals.

 

It's the reason why most reports put our next shirt sponsorship at around £20m - behind the "established" top 6 but ahead of the rest of the 14. Could end up being more if we end up in the CL obviously. 

Ah I see, cheers ?

[Jackie Broon]

8 minutes ago, andyc35i said:

Pretty sure it’s only related third party sponsorships that the rule applies. So I’d think the Noon sleeve sponsor would have been looked at and approved because PIF have some equity in the company 

 

Nope, all deals of £1m or more have to be approved by the PL.

[KetsbaiaIsBald]

2 minutes ago, Dokko said:

Also, the ground expansion can't come soon enough. It's something that cannot be taken away from us, and will continue to be a huge source of income for decades to come. Players come and go, as do managers & owners. Things like the ground & training complex are things which will shape our future for generations and again, help us support ourselves.

 

Just now, Jack27 said:

And a shiny new state of the art training ground complex sponsored by a Saudi airline or telecom company wouldn’t go amiss

 

The training ground and stadium is what I am most looking forward to.  It will put to bed the doubts that PIF are not committed to the scale of investment that Man City saw.  It will set up up for decades.  The sooner this happens the better.

[Dokko]

3 minutes ago, Jack27 said:

And a shiny new state of the art training ground complex sponsored by a Saudi airline or telecom company wouldn’t go amiss

 

Well that's it. 

 

£50m for new training complex and a £10m a year deal to sponsor it, but that money goes into players and we pay for the complex ourselves (which is outside of FFP)

 

For the stadium, instead of naming the stadium, you name the stand and sponsor that. 

[KetsbaiaIsBald]

4 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

Nope, all deals of £1m or more have to be approved by the PL.

 

I really like the idea of 52,000 £999,999.99 sponsorship deals for seats in the stand.  

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by KetsbaiaIsBald

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, Dokko said:

Also, the ground expansion can't come soon enough. It's something that cannot be taken away from us, and will continue to be a huge source of income for decades to come. Players come and go, as do managers & owners. Things like the ground & training complex are things which will shape our future for generations and again, help us support ourselves.

Expanding the Gallowgate isn’t likely to result in significant increases in income - and the problem we’re going to have is always going to be match day revenues. Even with 60k in the ground, we’d be taking a fraction that which Arsenal, Spurs etc do.  8k extra seats in the Gallowgate will only bring in c.£3-4m per season (barring cup games).  The relatively small population size combined with low average incomes stops the club from earning what others do.  Higher corporate seating revenues is where the money could be made from international money - corporate boxes etc.  Spending large sums on the executive areas once we’re reestablished at the top end of the table is where those match day revenues will come into play.  

[GeordieT]

Quote

However, the FFP monitoring period is a moving target, so Newcastle are still subject to some restrictions and cannot spend limitless amounts. If we look at the calculation for 2022/23, this will drop the £41m profit from 2018/19, which gives them less room to manouevre.

 

I estimate that their maximum loss for this season to remain compliant is £63m, i.e. £10m lower than last year’s £73m. That will be a challenge, given that the club has not made any big money player sales, while the cost base will have increased for this season’s player acquisitions (and there will be a full-year impact of the January 2022 arrivals).

Plenty elsewhere in the analysis that provides encouragement that this will be achievable. But does put a bit of a slant on the Chris Wood transfer perhaps?

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by GeordieT

[KetsbaiaIsBald]

4 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Expanding the Gallowgate isn’t likely to result in significant increases in income - and the problem we’re going to have is always going to be match day revenues. Even with 60k in the ground, we’d be taking a fraction that which Arsenal, Spurs etc do.  8k extra seats in the Gallowgate will only bring in c.£3-4m per season (barring cup games).  The relatively small population size combined with low average incomes stops the club from earning what others do.  Higher corporate seating revenues is where the money could be made from international money - corporate boxes etc.  Spending large sums on the executive areas once we’re reestablished at the top end of the table is where those match day revenues will come into play.  

 

This is where St James current layout hurts us.  We could really do with a couple rings of boxes around the ground.  Like Wembley, Arsenal & Tottenham.   Doing this without reducing the capacity of ruining what St James is would be very difficult.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by KetsbaiaIsBald

[nufcnick]

I don’t understand why we just don’t sell 2 of our best boxes for £30m per season to 2 of the super rich Saudi’s, gets round the PL’s fair value and related party’s shit as they have no say how much a club can sell tickets for. 

[Keegans Export]

3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Expanding the Gallowgate isn’t likely to result in significant increases in income - and the problem we’re going to have is always going to be match day revenues. Even with 60k in the ground, we’d be taking a fraction that which Arsenal, Spurs etc do.  8k extra seats in the Gallowgate will only bring in c.£3-4m per season (barring cup games).  The relatively small population size combined with low average incomes stops the club from earning what others do.  Higher corporate seating revenues is where the money could be made from international money - corporate boxes etc.  Spending large sums on the executive areas once we’re reestablished at the top end of the table is where those match day revenues will come into play.  

This is why I think that their preferred option would be a new stadium, probably on Leazes Park.

 

Obviously there are a lot of hurdles to overcome there but you're right that corporate income is one area where we are miles behind and adding an extra 8k seats for Joe Public at £35 a pop isn't going to be a difference maker.

 

I reckon they'll look at these options, in order of preference; 

 

1. Expand SJP including substantial increase in corporate facilities 

2. New stadium, close to or on current site 

3. Expand SJP without substantial increase in corporate facilities 

4. New stadium away from current site 

5. Stick with what we have now

[TheBrownBottle]

3 minutes ago, KetsbaiaIsBald said:

 

This is where St James current layout hurts us.  We could really do with a couple rings of boxes around the ground.  Like Wembley, Arsenal & Tottenham.   Doing this without reducing the capacity of ruining what St James is would be very difficult.

 

 

 

The East Stand used to have them, of course.  This to me is why a demolition of the East Stand and Gallowgate would be the way forward if we have to stay at SJP - the best use of the narrow footprint of the East would be to redo it with some seating plus a shitload of corporate.  Then have some corporate in the Gallowgate but expand it to ensure you get the extra capacity.  It likely wouldn’t increase the ground to 60k, but it would maximise income. 
 

The better solution to me is a rebuild elsewhere so that you don’t have to compromise on revenues or income.  But I understand why that isn’t popular. 

[KetsbaiaIsBald]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The East Stand used to have them, of course.  This to me is why a demolition of the East Stand and Gallowgate would be the way forward if we have to stay at SJP - the best use of the narrow footprint of the East would be to redo it with some seating plus a shitload of corporate.  Then have some corporate in the Gallowgate but expand it to ensure you get the extra capacity.  It likely wouldn’t increase the ground to 60k, but it would maximise income. 
 

The better solution to me is a rebuild elsewhere so that you don’t have to compromise on revenues or income.  But I understand why that isn’t popular. 

 

If money was no object I would:

 

1.  Build a 50k ikea stadium somewhere close that ends up being used for something else

2. Move there

3. Tear down St James and build a state or the art stadium on the current site.  I'm sure starting from scratch on that site you could have a 70k+ stadium.  

 

St James, as much as we love it, architecturally and design wise is about 5-10 projects iterating/improving on the last one.  I would still find this hard to take as I do love the uniqueness the build history has brought to the stadium.  

 

I never see this happening though.  I think we will see another iteration improving things a bit but not being game changing.

[TheBrownBottle]

5 minutes ago, KetsbaiaIsBald said:

 

If money was no object I would:

 

1.  Build a 50k ikea stadium somewhere close that ends up being used for something else

2. Move there

3. Tear down St James and build a state or the art stadium on the current site.  I'm sure starting from scratch on that site you could have a 70k+ stadium.  

 

St James, as much as we love it, architecturally and design wise is about 5-10 projects iterating/improving on the last one.  I would still find this hard to take as I do love the uniqueness the build history has brought to the stadium.  

 

I never see this happening though.  I think we will see another iteration improving things a bit but not being game changing.

I’ve said it before on here, but my first preference would be to approach the council re building on the bit of Leazes Park right next to SJP, with a guarantee that once the work is completed the current SJP will be demolished and a new park built on the spot - replete with boating lake etc.  Plus a significant investment in other renovations as required. 

[KetsbaiaIsBald]

Just now, TheBrownBottle said:

I’ve said it before on here, but my first preference would be to approach the council re building on the bit of Leazes Park right next to SJP, with a guarantee that once the work is completed the current SJP will be demolished and a new park built on the spot - replete with boating lake etc.  Plus a significant investment in other renovations as required. 

 

I'd like that too.  After the last attempt I just presumed it was a no go. 

[Jackie Broon]

13 minutes ago, nufcnick said:

I don’t understand why we just don’t sell 2 of our best boxes for £30m per season to 2 of the super rich Saudi’s, gets round the PL’s fair value and related party’s shit as they have no say how much a club can sell tickets for. 

 

It wouldn't, any transaction the club makes of £1m or more has to be approved by the PL. And before anyone says 'well just sell 30 at £999,999', the PL still have the ability within the rules to determine that they are related party transactions at above fair market value, being below £1m just means they don't have to be pre-approved.

[duo]

47 minutes ago, KetsbaiaIsBald said:

This summer is going to clear up what we can actually do financially.  It could be a huge sponsorship deal for shirt, training ground and stadium.  Or a premier league handcuffed marginal improvement.   If it's the latter next season could be incredibly hard for us.  Potentially balancing Europe with the league with a marginally better squad.  We could easily slip down to mid table.  Making the bigger deals hard to justify again.  The rules set up to maintain the greedy six's dominance are well thought out.  They are not stupid.  We see teams flirt with breaking into it for a year and then really struggle.  I do think/hope we're different but its not going to be easy.  

I know I am stating the obvious but CL qualification will play a huge part on Sponsorship deals and budget for players.  Huge few weeks.

[nufcnick]

8 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

It wouldn't, any transaction the club makes of £1m or more has to be approved by the PL. And before anyone says 'well just sell 30 at £999,999', the PL still have the ability within the rules to determine that they are related party transactions at above fair market value, being below £1m just means they don't have to be pre-approved.

Only sponsorships have to be approved, the PL can’t say anything if the club wants to sell 40 seats at £1m per season 

[Jackie Broon]

1 minute ago, nufcnick said:

Only sponsorships have to be approved, the PL can’t say anything if the club wants to sell 40 seats at £1m per season 

 

I don't think that's correct, having read the PLs rules any transaction a club makes can be determined to be a associated party transaction and above fair market value.

[Keegans Export]

There is absolutely no way the Premier League would leave a loophole like that open.

[Infatuation Junkie]

Isn’t there a prem club with 4 £1m seats currently

[Jack27]

I also imagine the club will want to play everything by the book. Not exactly the league’s most popular ownership group, don’t give the others any unnecessary ammunition 

[Whitley mag]

The fact we are even worried about FFP is a joke when you consider these figures are pre their January outlay.

 

 

[duo]

35 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

The fact we are even worried about FFP is a joke when you consider these figures are pre their January outlay.

 

 

Let is just hope they don't some how scrape into the CL.

[Geordie Ahmed]

21 minutes ago, duo said:

Let is just hope they don't some how scrape into the CL.

Are you referring to this season or next?

 

For next season a lot will depend on which manager they end up with

[KetsbaiaIsBald]

2 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

Are you referring to this season or next?

 

For next season a lot will depend on which manager they end up with

I guess he means wining the champions league and denying 4th place a spot. 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by KetsbaiaIsBald