Eddie Howe Returns!

[OverThere]

  On 28/11/2024 at 12:30, Jimburst said:

 

I think you're ignoring similar barren patches of other elite strikers if you think he isn't currently elite. Haaland is undoubtedly in the bracket of best ever strikers to grace the prem, and he's having a nightmare in the PL at the moment. Lewa, Kane etc all have had barren patches. Kane was a notoriously slow starter in terms of goals scored for multiple seasons. None of these facts make them poor finishers, it's just a fact of life. No one is perfect.

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His finishing is not currently elite on a consistent enough basis. Period.

[Holmesy]

  On 28/11/2024 at 12:07, Lush Vlad said:

 

Perhaps a bit strong, sorry   But you clearly did move the goalposts.  No plan B, then you say we just switched players and no formation change against West Ham, which doesn't constitute a plan B.  When that just quite clearly isn't true if you watched the game for more than 5 minutes second half.  Then it's not about formation change, but something else like how we press.  Which might also fall under your categorisation of tweaks to the original formation.  Which is still just plan A based on what you've posted further back.

 

Fair enough if you think that way.  I just think there are plenty of posters on here who don't want Howe to succeed and revel in a bad performance/result and are very vocal on here after a defeat.  As they clearly want him gone.  That is how your posts have often come across to me. 

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We all benefit if he succeeds and when we've had to ensure the likes of Pardew, Kinnear and Bruce, it would amazing to see a true gent like him etched in our history but I just don't see progress, and that concerns me. I love the idea of us having a discernible style that other teams have to combat, but when we're armed with the same players as last season and largely the season before, unless we evolve we become less effective.

Pep is the blueprint for managerial success, right?! He retains his footballing philosophies but he continues to evolve his playing style, tactics, setup, in-game management etc. Man City have/had played more long balls from the back than any other team earlier this season. Looking back at his vintage Barca side, the two teams are chalk and cheese but still retain than Pep DNA of moving the ball quickly, crazy movement, taking the ball in tight spaces etc.

Obviously we can't all have a Pep, but the points remains - standing still in the PL is going backwards, and I just don't see that anything has changed/evolved/been adapted.

 

Admittedly that is a little sideways step from my original post but it's all loosely around the same point. We play largely the same formation and the same style against everyone but with players they're now used to playing. We have one dimension and when it's negated, we look very ordinary and we don't seem to have a way to change it up.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by Holmesy

[Jimburst]

  On 28/11/2024 at 12:32, OverThere said:

His finishing is not currently elite on a consistent enough basis. Period.

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If you want to repeat yourself, feel free. I can't really argue against it.

 

I think Isak plays in a far worse team than any of the other strikers mentioned as Elite in this argument, and I'd argue he'd put up exceptional numbers if he played for a top class team. I guess that's opinions, but I think it's definitely a factor.

[Erikse]

  On 28/11/2024 at 12:30, Jimburst said:

 

I think you're ignoring similar barren patches of other elite strikers if you think he isn't currently elite. Haaland is undoubtedly in the bracket of best ever strikers to grace the prem, and he's having a nightmare in the PL at the moment. Lewa, Kane etc all have had barren patches. Kane was a notoriously slow starter in terms of goals scored for multiple seasons. None of these facts make them poor finishers, it's just a fact of life. No one is perfect.

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Isak is a streaky player, and as you say, several of the best strikers are. Those types of players that can win you a game on their own when they are in form. Haaland has had atleast 3 of these bad patches in the 2 and a half seasons he's been here. But when he's in form, he's breaking records.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by Erikse

[Lush Vlad]

  On 28/11/2024 at 12:20, OverThere said:

I said the ficker is never fit but we haven't tried to replace him. Big mistake. Both Isak and Gordon are poor finishers for bread and butter chances.

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I was more disagreeing with you saying he's a far better finisher than anyone we have and vital to the team.  I disagree with both points.  

 

Agree on Gordon.  He never has been a good finisher.  A lot of blocked shots and safe finishes where he just wants to hit the target.  Not having that about Isak, mind.  Even if he is going through a bit of a lean patch for us, with some big misses fresh in the memory.  He is an elite level striker. 

[Sempiternal]

Isak a poor finisher?! That can not be a real statement . Just the 21 goals in 31 last season. Absolutely absurd thing to say 

[Sempiternal]

  On 28/11/2024 at 12:36, Jimburst said:

If you want to repeat yourself, feel free. I can't really argue against it.

 

I think Isak plays in a far worse team than any of the other strikers mentioned as Elite in this argument, and I'd argue he'd put up exceptional numbers if he played for a top class team. I guess that's opinions, but I think it's definitely a factor.

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It’s wild you’ve even had to say this lol. He put up exceptional numbers for us. He’d go crazy for a better team. There isn’t anyone I’d swap him for 

[Shearergol]

  On 28/11/2024 at 12:58, Sempiternal said:

Isak a poor finisher?! That can not be a real statement . Just the 21 goals in 31 last season. Absolutely absurd thing to say 

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Yeah but until he scores 4 every single game, from 2 chances, he'll never be elite. Init.

[Sempiternal]

  On 28/11/2024 at 13:14, Shearergol said:

 

Yeah but until he scores 4 every single game, from 2 chances, he'll never be elite. Init.

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Genuinely can’t believe what I’m reading.  Do people think players like him grow on trees? Haaland must have skewed people’s perceptions to insane heights 

[Shearergol]

  On 28/11/2024 at 13:15, Sempiternal said:

Genuinely can’t believe what I’m reading.  Do people think players like him grow on trees? Haaland must have skewed people’s perceptions to insane heights 

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Think people are just frustrated at the moment so taking it out on all of the players and staff. Nobody is safe.

[Sempiternal]

  On 28/11/2024 at 13:26, Shearergol said:

 

Think people are just frustrated at the moment so taking it out on all of the players and staff. Nobody is safe.

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It’s just crazy to me. He’s 4 in 10

this season and that with him clearly being not fit for a couple of games.  Hes quality 

[The College Dropout]

  On 28/11/2024 at 11:32, Kanj said:

How often do we see a successful plan B from managers? 
 

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Good question. I don't think managers have a real plan B. They just have variations on Plan A. Our variation on Plan A is just making subs.

[Kanj]

  On 28/11/2024 at 13:31, The College Dropout said:

Good question. I don't think managers have a real plan B. They just have variations on Plan A. Our variation on Plan A is just making subs.

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Think that’s the same for nearly all managers; your plan a variation or plan b is brining in subs who offer something different to what started. It’s a different style player. Our subs have won us points this season many times. It just didn’t work at all Monday. 

[TRon]

  On 28/11/2024 at 11:55, Erikse said:

 

We need to stop making it difficult for ourselves in the first half. I'm tired of watching us chase a comeback in most games.

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I think we put too much faith in scoring goals by pushing aggressively. It looks great, but our goal scoring record this season doesn't suggest it's particularly effective. You can blame shit finishing, but after enough games, you just wonder if there is actually finishing ability in enough players to warrant such optimism.

[TRon]

  On 28/11/2024 at 12:58, Sempiternal said:

Isak a poor finisher?! That can not be a real statement . Just the 21 goals in 31 last season. Absolutely absurd thing to say 

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Just fucking mental.

[Sempiternal]

I would really like to see a player signed who can see a difficult pass. And when it’s hectic get on the ball slow it down, and regain composure. 

[Kanj]

Isak just hasn’t been finishing the chances he usually does for us. Just a temporary thing imo. If this was last season he scores that chest volley. 

[54]

  On 28/11/2024 at 12:20, OverThere said:

I said the ficker is never fit but we haven't tried to replace him. Big mistake. Both Isak and Gordon are poor finishers for bread and butter chances.

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[Erikse]

  On 28/11/2024 at 13:35, TRon said:

 

I think we put too much faith in scoring goals by pushing aggressively. It looks great, but our goal scoring record this season doesn't suggest it's particularly effective. You can blame shit finishing, but after enough games, you just wonder if there is actually finishing ability in enough players to warrant such optimism.

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I agree, I've noticed the same. We go for an early goal, and miss our chances. Leave ourselves exposed in the process, and the opponent scores theirs. Steve Bruce would call it "naive". (sorry, couldn't help myself)

 

Tbh we've also conceded a lot of big chances that the opponents have missed. So it's probably just a case of being more exposed when pushing for that lead.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by Erikse

[TRon]

  On 28/11/2024 at 13:42, Erikse said:

 

I agree, I've noticed the same. We go for an early goal, and miss our chances. Leave ourselves exposed in the process, and the opponent scores theirs.

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There's some teams who seem to recognise our flaws and set up from the off to neutralise our threat...which isn't that much considering it's mostly down the left side and finding Isak. Stop Gordon/Barnes from cutting in, mark Isak out of the game and that's the defensive side wrapped up. Then if you get the ball you know there will be big gaps you can exploit on the counter.

[Erikse]

  On 28/11/2024 at 13:48, TRon said:

 

 

There's some teams who seem to recognise our flaws and set up from the off to neutralise our threat...which isn't that much considering it's mostly down the left side and finding Isak. Stop Gordon/Barnes from cutting in, mark Isak out of the game and that's the defensive side wrapped up. Then if you get the ball you know there will be big gaps you can exploit on the counter.

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Miss the start of last season where both Gordon and Trippier was a huge threat offensively, one from each side..

 

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by Erikse

[TRon]

  On 28/11/2024 at 13:51, Erikse said:

 

Miss the start of last season where both Gordon and Trippier was a huge threat offensively, one from each side..

 

 

 

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Even that puts too much onus on a full back for attacking options down the right. Then when Tripps gets caught up the pitch he gets slaughtered for goals conceded on his side. Also think we need more goals from the midfield. Longstaff chipped in with a few but it's not consistent, and Bruno is playing as a 6 so not going to get in those positions as much.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

  On 28/11/2024 at 13:35, TRon said:

 

I think we put too much faith in scoring goals by pushing aggressively. It looks great, but our goal scoring record this season doesn't suggest it's particularly effective. You can blame shit finishing, but after enough games, you just wonder if there is actually finishing ability in enough players to warrant such optimism.

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Finishing is a skill that can be taught, the difficult bit is the mental aspect where you can't replicate match conditions/pressure in training.

 

I do wonder if some of our attacking players struggle with how they are being asked to play/what they are asked to think about on the pitch and this does have an impact. Just look at how often a new manager goes right back to basics and all of a sudden a striker who couldn't hit a cows arse knocks in a half respectable return almost immediately.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Isak finished his offside goal brilliantly, the left foot half volley was much more difficult. 

[TRon]

  On 28/11/2024 at 14:45, Colos Short and Curlies said:

 

Finishing is a skill that can be taught, the difficult bit is the mental aspect where you can't replicate match conditions/pressure in training.

 

I do wonder if some of our attacking players struggle with how they are being asked to play/what they are asked to think about on the pitch and this does have an impact. Just look at how often a new manager goes right back to basics and all of a sudden a striker who couldn't hit a cows arse knocks in a half respectable return almost immediately.

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I don't think the problem is the finishing, yes we've missed a few recently but Isak is a very good finisher for the most part. I think we are struggling to create clear chances because the supply's not great from out wide. The left wingers are good at cutting in, but when that's blocked their delivery from wide is patchy. There is no right wing. There's no one other than Isak arriving in the box so the defenders all mark him.