Eddie Howe

[PauloGeordio]

https://www.themag.co.uk/2024/01/light-at-end-of-the-tunnel-newcastle-united-now-ready-for-big-push/
 

[Holmesy]

Largely, i think our approach and identity is great and i love that we finally have a style of play that is recognisable and brilliant to watch (when we're at full strength). However, it's pretty obvious that when conditions aren't optimal, our identity/style of play can be pretty ineffective. That's the drawback with only approaching games in one way - if plan A doesn't work, we only have more of plan A, but maybe with a couple of players substituted.

I definitely don't want us to tear up the script but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that working on a secondary approach to games, for when conditions aren't optimal, would be a sensible thing for next season and beyond. If that doesn't happen, we find ourselves in a similar position again and we go on another losing run as a result, pressure should rightly mount on the management team. But learn from this, adapt and evolve, and we could turn a huge negative into something that strengthens us going forward.

 

Some folk on here have been saying we haven't been worked out. I think you underestimate the size of the role analysts play in PL football clubs. We are being picked apart in the same way game after game - that isn't coincidence. Every team pours over data to understand the finest details of where competitive advantage can be gained, including where goals/chances result from and where opposition teams are vulnerable. Spotting the grand canyon size hole in our midfield and recognising that we over commit in attack and have no pace to counter the counter will take them about 5 minutes, if that.

A new DM would help, but so would adjusting our game plan slightly to leave us less vulnerable. That isn't a 'rip up the script' change, it's a slight adjustment. And it's absolutely not asking too much for Eddie to make that change.

 

 

[Shearergol]

4 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Largely, i think our approach and identity is great and i love that we finally have a style of play that is recognisable and brilliant to watch (when we're at full strength). However, it's pretty obvious that when conditions aren't optimal, our identity/style of play can be pretty ineffective. That's the drawback with only approaching games in one way - if plan A doesn't work, we only have more of plan A, but maybe with a couple of players substituted.

I definitely don't want us to tear up the script but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that working on a secondary approach to games, for when conditions aren't optimal, would be a sensible thing for next season and beyond. If that doesn't happen, we find ourselves in a similar position again and we go on another losing run as a result, pressure should rightly mount on the management team. But learn from this, adapt and evolve, and we could turn a huge negative into something that strengthens us going forward.

 

Some folk on here have been saying we haven't been worked out. I think you underestimate the size of the role analysts play in PL football clubs. We are being picked apart in the same way game after game - that isn't coincidence. Every team pours over data to understand the finest details of where competitive advantage can be gained, including where goals/chances result from and where opposition teams are vulnerable. Spotting the grand canyon size hole in our midfield and recognising that we over commit in attack and have no pace to counter the counter will take them about 5 minutes, if that.

A new DM would help, but so would adjusting our game plan slightly to leave us less vulnerable. That isn't a 'rip up the script' change, it's a slight adjustment. And it's absolutely not asking too much for Eddie to make that change.

 

 

 

 I don't think we have the current personnel in midfield to change the game plan. DM is absolutely key for me.

[Holmesy]

Just now, Shearergol said:

 

 I don't think we have the current personnel in midfield to change the game plan. DM is absolutely key for me.

Longstaff has thrived under two managers who gave him a very specific role, coached him in detail and told him where he needs to be in certain situations. And he disappeared under Cabbage head, a known 'go and play' tactical moron.

If Eddie told Longstaff to sit, fill the hole and stay back on our set pieces, he would. In an ideal world we'd have a dedicated #6 but that's not looking likely so we might have to work with what we have.

[Guest]

Longstaff's lack of pace, inability to wriggle away from tackles and shite diving when under pressure would give me kittens sitting deep.

[Holmesy]

2 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Longstaff's lack of pace, inability to wriggle away from tackles and shite diving when under pressure would give me kittens sitting deep.

Starting from the halfway line would give him a better chance of catching someone than treading water from the opposition box. As i said, we don't have a round peg for that round hole, but maybe Longstaff could be our oval peg for now? He can't finish for shit, so I doubt we'll miss him much in attacking situations.

 

 

[jackyboy]

Klopp said that for Liverpool if plan A doesn't work it means they have to work harder to get it right, there is no plan B

[The College Dropout]

5 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Longstaff's lack of pace, inability to wriggle away from tackles and shite diving when under pressure would give me kittens sitting deep.

Agreed. But he can still plug a gap.

 

There's got to be a tactical adjustment to stop us from conceding possession and space in dangerous areas for 45 minutes straight numerous times.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Starting from the halfway line would give him a better chance of catching someone than treading water from the opposition box. As i said, we don't have a round peg for that round hole, but maybe Longstaff could be our oval peg for now? He can't finish for shit, so I doubt we'll miss him much in attacking situations.

 

 

 

It's the late tackles as well. We'd give away plenty around the box.

[The College Dropout]

So let's keep doing exactly what we've been doing.

[Holmesy]

2 minutes ago, jackyboy said:

Klopp said that for Liverpool if plan A doesn't work it means they have to work harder to get it right, there is no plan B

Klopp has a deep squad full of top talent. Conditions are rarely non-optimal for Liverpool.

It also worked for Barcelona and it works for City etc. - both deep squads full of top talent.

Conditions are far less likely to be optimal for us, for at least a couple of years at least, so being pragmatic rather than stubborn makes more sense. When we have a squad full of world beaters, i'm all for 100% of plan A.

 

Burnley came up playing a certain style and they'll go down because of their slowness to adapt to the quality and rigours of the PL. The only way they'll stay up is if they adapt and find a different way to get results. We're not Burnley but we're also not Liverpool, we're somewhere between the two right now.  

[The College Dropout]

Klopp also presides over some really poor seasons. I've seen him try and switch things up - he's played 4-2-3-1 for example but nothing really works well. Eddie is a bit like him.

[Thumbheed]

5 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Klopp has a deep squad full of top talent. Conditions are rarely non-optimal for Liverpool.

It also worked for Barcelona and it works for City etc. - both deep squads full of top talent.

Conditions are far less likely to be optimal for us, for at least a couple of years at least, so being pragmatic rather than stubborn makes more sense. When we have a squad full of world beaters, i'm all for 100% of plan A.

 

Burnley came up playing a certain style and they'll go down because of their slowness to adapt to the quality and rigours of the PL. The only way they'll stay up is if they adapt and find a different way to get results. We're not Burnley but we're also not Liverpool, we're somewhere between the two right now.  

 

Klopp had similar injury struggles when he first implemented his style of play and stuck with it.

 

 

[El Hozzo]

8 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Klopp has a deep squad full of top talent. Conditions are rarely non-optimal for Liverpool.

It also worked for Barcelona and it works for City etc. - both deep squads full of top talent.

Conditions are far less likely to be optimal for us, for at least a couple of years at least, so being pragmatic rather than stubborn makes more sense. When we have a squad full of world beaters, i'm all for 100% of plan A.

 

Burnley came up playing a certain style and they'll go down because of their slowness to adapt to the quality and rigours of the PL. The only way they'll stay up is if they adapt and find a different way to get results. We're not Burnley but we're also not Liverpool, we're somewhere between the two right now.  

Burnpool ?

[Erikse]

38 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Largely, i think our approach and identity is great and i love that we finally have a style of play that is recognisable and brilliant to watch (when we're at full strength). However, it's pretty obvious that when conditions aren't optimal, our identity/style of play can be pretty ineffective. That's the drawback with only approaching games in one way - if plan A doesn't work, we only have more of plan A, but maybe with a couple of players substituted.

I definitely don't want us to tear up the script but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that working on a secondary approach to games, for when conditions aren't optimal, would be a sensible thing for next season and beyond. If that doesn't happen, we find ourselves in a similar position again and we go on another losing run as a result, pressure should rightly mount on the management team. But learn from this, adapt and evolve, and we could turn a huge negative into something that strengthens us going forward.

 

Some folk on here have been saying we haven't been worked out. I think you underestimate the size of the role analysts play in PL football clubs. We are being picked apart in the same way game after game - that isn't coincidence. Every team pours over data to understand the finest details of where competitive advantage can be gained, including where goals/chances result from and where opposition teams are vulnerable. Spotting the grand canyon size hole in our midfield and recognising that we over commit in attack and have no pace to counter the counter will take them about 5 minutes, if that.

A new DM would help, but so would adjusting our game plan slightly to leave us less vulnerable. That isn't a 'rip up the script' change, it's a slight adjustment. And it's absolutely not asking too much for Eddie to make that change.

 

 

 

Not really a surprising heat map or anything, but this is the heatmap of Man City against us:

 

 

It's quite clear to see where they were operating. I checked their heatmaps in other games, and they usually don't look like this. Could also be partly because we were 2-1 up and defending for most of the 2nd half however, so I'm not sure how much we can read from this.

 

 

Edited January 15 by Erikse

[Holmesy]

2 minutes ago, Thumbheed said:

 

Klopp had similar injury struggles when he first implemented his style of play and stuck with it.

 

 

And yet Pep, the best manager in world football has continually tweaked, adapted, evolved and has won 5 PLs out of 6 and a treble last season. Pep's approach largely stays the same - front foot, possession-based, lots of technical players but look at peak tika-taka Barca - they don't look the same as current Man City. And when was the last time City had a bad season? They are an anomaly of course, but central to their success is constant evolution around a theme. 

Don't get me wrong, I would love us to have Klopp-levels of success but i'd rather we were a bit wiser during this transitional phase so it's not feast or famine.

[Isaksbigrightfoot]

Bizarrely a lot of the goals we concede are when the other team is on the counter attack. We pump players forward. Fail to score and get caught fast.

 

This makes it a positioning problem and still leads me to think we need a DM.

[Erikse]

4 minutes ago, Isaksbigrightfoot said:

Bizarrely a lot of the goals we concede are when the other team is on the counter attack. We pump players forward. Fail to score and get caught fast.

 

This makes it a positioning problem and still leads me to think we need a DM.

 

We do lack a little bit of pace overall. I think Almiron is actually one of our better players for stopping counters.

 

 

Edited January 15 by Erikse

[Holmesy]

10 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

We do lack a little bit of pace overall. I think Almiron is actually one of our better players for stopping counters.

 

 

 

He might actually be a bit less frustrating playing as a DM. Maybe Eddie can turn him into the new Claude Makelele

 

 

Edited January 15 by Holmesy

[Cf]

6 hours ago, ExiledGeordie said:

While I do think we’ve been unfortunate with injuries I’m sure the medical team and management will probably look back at certain decisions and think “did we do the right thing”. I’d imagine the severity of the situation probably made them roll the dice or take a risk more than they would’ve liked.

 

Given the ridiculous level of injuries we had and the amount of games we had in December if we only played fully fit players we'd have been putting the reserves out.

[TRon]

3 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said:

Longstaff's lack of pace, inability to wriggle away from tackles and shite diving when under pressure would give me kittens sitting deep.

 

Not to mention lack of composure when being pressed by the opposition. That's the opposite of what you want from a deep sitting midfielder.

[The College Dropout]

2 hours ago, Erikse said:

 

We do lack a little bit of pace overall. I think Almiron is actually one of our better players for stopping counters.

 

 

 

Willock & Joelinton huge for this as well. Much more dynamic with both of them in.

 

Tonali is meant to have good running power too.

[Thumbheed]

3 hours ago, Holmesy said:

And yet Pep, the best manager in world football has continually tweaked, adapted, evolved and has won 5 PLs out of 6 and a treble last season. Pep's approach largely stays the same - front foot, possession-based, lots of technical players but look at peak tika-taka Barca - they don't look the same as current Man City. And when was the last time City had a bad season? They are an anomaly of course, but central to their success is constant evolution around a theme. 

Don't get me wrong, I would love us to have Klopp-levels of success but i'd rather we were a bit wiser during this transitional phase so it's not feast or famine.

 

I'd say the fact they have a world class 2nd team is central to their success.

 

I rate Pep as a managerial freak who as you say is able to constantly innovative and implement, but give him a bench that drops in quality to the degree it does for us then I don't think any plan B, C or D he has gives him the same success he's already had.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TRon said:

 

Not to mention lack of composure when being pressed by the opposition. That's the opposite of what you want from a deep sitting midfielder.

 

I'd prefer the shite patter of Schar playing there tbh. One of the things Longstaff brings is he's a decent system player in that RCM slot. Would be suicide putting him in front of the back 4.

[Guest]

I think the only viable option we have is Bruno, telling him to stay put, but you're taking away any ounce of creativity we have in their half of the pitch. 

 

I'd still look at the 3-4-3 Rafa system personally. We might still have the same issue positionally in the middle but we'd at least have 3 centre-backs for them to contend with. One could step out when we're being hit on the break. Try something different possibly.