SUPERTOON Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Is there anyone who wouldn’t give him the summer window and a go again next season ? He has definitely earned that right surely ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Just now, Yorkie said: @STM good shouts re the Arteta situation. Fair play to Arsenal for sticking with him when the likes of Chelsea and Spurs have demonstrated the issues with being impatient. I pray we never become like them. Chelsea are the most successful side in England this century - and Spurs are of course a club with one League Cup to their name in that period despite being a ‘Big Six’ club. So the correlation between sticking to manager or not is arguable based on those two clubs. Arteta won the FA Cup in his first season, which would have bought him some time. I don’t really care if we stick with a manger for ten years or have ten managers in ten years - I’ll happily take whatever works if we won trophies. I’d take Chelsea’s last 20 years quite happily, and wouldn’t blink about the number of managers we went through. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Just now, SUPERTOON said: Is there anyone who wouldn’t give him the summer window and a go again next season ? He has definitely earned that right surely ? Of course. We beat PSG just a few months ago - it was one of the highlights of my time supporting this club in the last 20+ years.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 4 minutes ago, STM said: What's worst, its not the clubs that struggle with the patience, its the fans. Perhaps Arsenal finishing 8th behind closed doors saved Arteta then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Ronaldo said: Wolves will likely go above us today and you think we’re over-performing because 32 year old Callum Wilson in injured as per? Have a word. Such a reductive argument. From my understanding of every argument you've made about our 'keeper, midfield, and striker situation, because the club hasn't accounted for each weakness, it's a failure on the clubs part and the elephant in the room - that those weaknesses are exposed because of an unprecendented injury crisis that's hit all departments collectively - is in the end, making excuses. Would that be fair? The club should have either got a 2nd choice sweeper keeper, a DM, and replaced a 1 in 2 striker instead of...? Or got them on top of our spend in the summer. It's all hypothetical but who's to say that if we'd accounted for those weaknesses, the weaknesses we did account for wouldn't have been exposed instead. Edited February 25 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Toon Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 12 hours ago, andycap said: And to think joelinton could be away in the summer. What will we do then without his power physicality he'll cost a fortune to replace properly. Billing the Danish wonder boy, one of 3 Bournemouth players we are being linked with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 11 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Chelsea are the most successful side in England this century - and Spurs are of course a club with one League Cup to their name in that period despite being a ‘Big Six’ club. So the correlation between sticking to manager or not is arguable based on those two clubs. Arteta won the FA Cup in his first season, which would have bought him some time. I don’t really care if we stick with a manger for ten years or have ten managers in ten years - I’ll happily take whatever works if we won trophies. I’d take Chelsea’s last 20 years quite happily, and wouldn’t blink about the number of managers we went through. Fair counter, I've probably got it wrong with Chelsea seeing as it's only Lampard and Potter in their recent chopping and changing who haven't delivered silverware. Spurs are a more valid example (i.e. by building their own roadblock when they twisted on Poch), and I wouldn't bet against Ange being shown the door within 12 months. My broader point is that I'm far more inclined to watch someone build and grow with us, with allowances for the occasional underachievement (not that Howe is underachieving), than hire and fire. If for any reason: I honestly don't think the pool of top managers - who can routinely get a team punching above its weight - is especially high. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbheed Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 5 minutes ago, Keegans Export said: Where do you think we should be then, with injuries etc factored in? What wouldn't qualify as over/under performance? Not looking for an argument, just interested. I always expected a drop off this season because of the extra fixtures so at the beginning of the season I'd have honestly said 7th would have been a realistic target, and that would have been with a full squad. If this team was in 12th place I'd have been majorly disappointed but honestly, not surprised. What about you? Do you think there's team above us who are overperforming and we should definitely be ahead of? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 24 minutes ago, Menace said: Arteta has been heavily backed as well. The Mourinho shouts man Terrifying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 minutes ago, Thumbheed said: I always expected a drop off this season because of the extra fixtures so at the beginning of the season I'd have honestly said 7th would have been a realistic target, and that would have been with a full squad. If this team was in 12th place I'd have been majorly disappointed but honestly, not surprised. What about you? Do you think there's team above us who are overperforming and we should definitely be ahead of? Being outside the top 10 would surely be looked on as a really poor season ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, Yorkie said: Fair counter, I've probably got it wrong with Chelsea seeing as it's only Lampard and Potter in their recent chopping and changing who haven't delivered silverware. Spurs are a more valid example, and I wouldn't bet against Ange being shown the door within 12 months. My broader point is that I'm far more inclined to watch someone build and grow with us, with allowances for the occasional underachievement (not that Howe is underachieving), than hire and fire. If for any reason: I honestly don't think the pool of top managers - who can routinely get a team punching above its weight - is especially high. Yeah, I really thought you raising Spurs and Chelsea was interesting because the outcomes have been so different despite both ousting managers relatively quickly (I had Postecoglu to be sacked first, shows what I know - though that was based on Spurs’ track record). Some big European clubs stick with managers for a while; others hire & fire. Correlation between the rarity of changing of managers and the trophies won by clubs isn’t always all that strong. But Spurs can hardly be happy with their lack of trophies despite the obvious financial strength they have. I agree re it would be good if Howe grows with the club - and I also think he’s done a very good job on the whole (though the last dozen games is pretty much relegation form - I suspect that will change when Pope returns). But I’m not emotionally attached to him in an absolute respect - Keegan is the only one I ever truly was emotionally attached to (also, I was young). If it doesn’t turn around next season then my view on Howe will harden. The club comes ahead of any other considerations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 3 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said: Being outside the top 10 would surely be looked on as a really poor season ? NUFC finishing outside the top half is a failure in any context. Which is why Ashley’s time was mostly one of failure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawalls Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 19 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: Such a reductive argument. From my understanding of every argument you've made about our 'keeper, midfield, and striker situation, because the club hasn't accounted for each weakness, it's a failure on the clubs part and the elephant in the room - that those weaknesses are exposed because of an unprecendented injury crisis that's hit all departments collectively - is in the end, making excuses. Would that be fair? The club should have either got a 2nd choice sweeper keeper, a DM, and replaced a 1 in 2 striker instead of...? Or got them on top of our spend in the summer. It's all hypothetical but who's to say that if we'd accounted for those weaknesses, the weaknesses we did account for wouldn't have been exposed instead. And massively fined for breaching ffp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegans Export Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 4 minutes ago, Thumbheed said: What about you? Do you think there's team above us who are overperforming and we should definitely be ahead of? If we end the season behind Wolves and West Ham that'd be a bit of a disappointment. I think I'm more concerned that despite now not having European or League Cup fixtures to contend with and players gradually returning from injury our form has shown no signs of improvement. As I said earlier we have a friendly run of fixtures coming up so there's still time to change the narrative. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Just now, SUPERTOON said: Being outside the top 10 would surely be looked on as a really poor season ? From an optics point of view it could be damaging but if we finished say 11th as opposed to 8th I don't really see how it would dramatically re-define the season. We're in a mini-league with Brighton, West Ham, Chelsea and Wolves and the finishing places for those five are pretty interchangeable, imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: If it doesn’t turn around next season then my view on Howe will harden. I don't think this is controversial at all, fwiw. If we keep Bruno, invest well and keep the squad fit, we ought to make a stronger claim for the top six. If the team becomes no longer (at least) equal to the sum of its parts, it'll be fair to question whether he's the most suitable option long-term. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Arteta was under severe pressure like. That comes with underperformance. If Howe under performs the pressure will be on. That first full season stank. The signings the performances everything. I think a September/October the next season saved his job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 5 minutes ago, Keegans Export said: If we end the season behind Wolves and West Ham that'd be a bit of a disappointment. I think I'm more concerned that despite now not having European or League Cup fixtures to contend with and players gradually returning from injury our form has shown no signs of improvement. As I said earlier we have a friendly run of fixtures coming up so there's still time to change the narrative. Before yesterday we where unbeaten in 5. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
et tu brute Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 It will be what PIF decide at the end of the day. We have players returning and a decent run of games coming after playing all of the top 4 teams. Tuesday is a huge game, as defeat in that and the pressure will be fully ramped up. I'm fully expecting results to improve from now. If not, I'm not sure if PIF will have the patience. I have maintained since the summer that our transfer window then and now again in January, has not improved the first 11 (Tonali we never got a chance to see). Will it be a lesson learned season or will PIF decide on changes? Time will tell with the forthcoming results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 6 minutes ago, Yorkie said: From an optics point of view it could be damaging but if we finished say 11th as opposed to 8th I don't really see how it would dramatically re-define the season. We're in a mini-league with Brighton, West Ham, Chelsea and Wolves and the finishing places for those five are pretty interchangeable, imo. Didn’t we finish 11th when Howe took over? I do think it would rightfully be looked at as a failure if we finished outside the top 10 this season tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 57 minutes ago, Ronaldo said: Wolves will likely go above us today and you think we’re over-performing because 32 year old Callum Wilson in injured as per? Have a word. Is that our primary striker Callum Wilson? Just 1 of a plethora of injured players impacting our season. What do you think our poor form is down to then? Eddie suddenly turning into a bad manager?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbheed Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 5 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said: Being outside the top 10 would surely be looked on as a really poor season ? Of course but not surprising considering the injuries is my point. If you can't physically drop poor performing players because you don't have a viable alternative then what can your expectations realistically be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 minutes ago, 54 said: Before yesterday we were unbeaten in 5. True, our performances outside of the villa game where poor though imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, Thumbheed said: Of course but not surprising considering the injuries is my point. If you can't physically drop poor performing players because you don't have a viable alternative then what can your expectations realistically be? As it stands now though we may not have that issue for the rest of the season (obviously we may pick up more injuries). If we fail to finish top 10 with our run in and players coming back then it’s been a really poor season imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycap Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I think teams have cottoned on to our frailties in our tactical shape and exposed it massively this season. The amount of times one ball and the opposition are in has happened is concerning. And we haven't been able to sort that out since the start of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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