Eddie Howe

[Erikse]

3 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Aye. 
 

But Arteta in particular would’ve been sacked by most owners.  
 

In his first full season they finished 8th. And he wanted to bin off the star players. 
 

And Ancelotti got sacked by Real the first time for finishing 2nd/3rd and getting to CL semi. He did that again in his second term and was nowhere near getting sacked. He also Got sacked from Chelsea for finishing 2nd. it’s a different era now. Managerial requirements are so specific these days. 
 

 It helps that there’s a dearth of elite managers that deliver in the short term. And the 2 I can think of - Tuchel and Conte - are notoriously tough to work with.  

 

Arteta is a pretty good example. They also had a horrible start to the season they finished 5th, where most fans were calling for him to be sacked at the start of the season. Then they started looking like a completely different team later. I'm not Howe out, but he needs to change some things to win me back over.

 

 

Edited Monday at 13:34 by Erikse

[huss9]

1 minute ago, Erikse said:

 

Arteta is a pretty good example. They also had a horrible start to the season they finished 5th, where most fans were calling for him to be sacked at the start of the season. Then they started looking like a completely different team later. I'm not Howe out, but he needs to change some things to win me back over.

 

 

 

if we dont get top 4 then'd rather win a cup and finish around 8th than 5-7th and no trophy.

unless 5th gets champo league - i can never keep up.

[timeEd32]

23 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

I am fully on the dark side now.

 

The summer really ticked me off and I don't like where things are going.

 

It's my opinion, from the noises out there, regarding issues previously at Bournemouth, issues with Ashworth and issues with Mitchell, that Howe appears very rigid in the way he works and is not going to be able to work with a highly qualified Director of Football.

 

I do not want any manager that functions like this. Not with the way things are going in football. I do not trust any one man to be able to pull it off.

 

We will lose out on the contacts a DOF has with other clubs, agents and execs that typically helps facilitate transfers and opens up so many more options and possibilities. We will also miss out on being at the forefront of the most cutting edge recruitment data and analysis, that is usually pushed by the DOF. 

 

When it comes to competing for players with other clubs that have such people in place, we cannot afford to have Howe going up against them during breaks in training, or whoever else at the club that doesn't have a strong enough reputation and gravitas with the right people, if we don't have a legit DOF. We apparently don't even have a data driven approach to recruitment yet, according to Howe, and are still relying on traditional scouting only. This is one of the first things that should have been addressed at the club. Why is this still the case? Who was in charge of such things?

 

Things are moving very quickly. We are now seeing the likes of Bournemouth hiring Tiago Pinto, who was previously at Roma, as a DOF, and now being able to sign Porto's number one striker off them in Evanilson. AFC Bournemouth.

 

We have a head start on a number of clubs with some of the talent we have, but how long will that last for. We seem to be going down a very particular road when it comes to the players we are targeting lately. We keep hearing from the manager that there is only a very small pool of players that can improve our team. That is very very hard to believe.

 

For me personally, the alarm bells are ringing. But maybe I am wrong. We will soon see.

 

I don't really disagree with a lot of what you're saying other than the fact you seem to be pinning this entirely on Howe. If this summer ticked you off then you should be very annoyed about summer 2023 because you can trace all of the problems back to that. It was somewhere between naive and reckless and we had a DoF in place. I am not, under any circumstances, putting financial and PSR management at the foot of the manager. That blame needs to lie elsewhere.

 

We've also had reports that part of Eddie's preference for PL players is the lack of data available from other leagues. This is probably why we haven't exploited South American talent or smaller leagues in Europe. There's really no reason to think Eddie is opposed to having a DoF in place so that's hurdle one.

 

The next big thing is the level of power each role has and who has final say on certain things. If there's an issue it's likely here and this is where there absolutely has to be concessions on Eddie's part. We genuinely have no idea at the moment where this line is and whether or not he's happy about it.

 

Honestly mostly of your complaints seem like they could be leveled at some combination of PIF, Staveley, Eales, and Ashworth (as well as Howe), but you've just decided that every bad thing is the fault of the manager (ahem, head coach - another sign he knew from the beginning he wouldn't be all-powerful) despite singing his praises for 2+ years.

[The College Dropout]

15 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

Arteta is a pretty good example. They also had a horrible start to the season they finished 5th, where most fans were calling for him to be sacked at the start of the season. Then they started looking like a completely different team later. I'm not Howe out, but he needs to change some things to win me back over.

 

 

 

I mean, we’ve had a good start though. 

 

Good post Kaka. I still support Howe but it sounds like he needs to change his mindset a bit. 
 

 

[SUPERTOON]

Are people now in acceptance that the club/Howe target PL players over foreign based options? Quite a few on here have said that for a while and been slated for it.

[Upthemags]

1 hour ago, Erikse said:

 

If you compare the squads, we should be finishing above Brighton. Villa has atleast 8 extra CL games, possibly more. But you and Spurs are playing in the Europa League. I find it strange how most people agreed back in may that no Europe would give us a huge advantage, but now everyone has changed their mind and seem to be ignoring that fact all together. We didn't buy anyone special, but we kept our best players and Tonali is back.

 

 

 

Not sure how true this is mate. I think talent wise Brighton is just about our match/peer.

 

We have some bigger names on the team sheet, but does a Longstaff, a Murphy, a Dan Burn get a minute of playing time for Brighton? I don't think so.

[The College Dropout]

7 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Are people now in acceptance that the club/Howe target PL players over foreign based options? Quite a few on here have said that for a while and been slated for it.

The constant ‘we are looking at a small group of players’ and only publicly bidding for Osulu, Tosin, Kelly, Palace winger, Guehi kinda proves that’s true. 
 

And we all knew Howe’s Bournemouth side was heavy on the British.  
 

The longer Eddie’s been here the more we’ve gone towards his style until this January imo. 

[80]

19 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

I am fully on the dark side now.

 

The summer really ticked me off and I don't like where things are going.

 

It's my opinion, from the noises out there, regarding issues previously at Bournemouth, issues with Ashworth and issues with Mitchell, that Howe appears very rigid in the way he works and is not going to be able to work with a highly qualified Director of Football.

 

I do not want any manager that functions like this. Not with the way things are going in football. I do not trust any one man to be able to pull it off.

 

We will lose out on the contacts a DOF has with other clubs, agents and execs that typically helps facilitate transfers and opens up so many more options and possibilities. We will also miss out on being at the forefront of the most cutting edge recruitment data and analysis, that is usually pushed by the DOF. 

 

When it comes to competing for players with other clubs that have such people in place, we cannot afford to have Howe going up against them during breaks in training, or whoever else at the club that doesn't have a strong enough reputation and gravitas with the right people, if we don't have a legit DOF. We apparently don't even have a data driven approach to recruitment yet, according to Howe, and are still relying on traditional scouting only. This is one of the first things that should have been addressed at the club. Why is this still the case? Who was in charge of such things?

 

Things are moving very quickly. We are now seeing the likes of Bournemouth hiring Tiago Pinto, who was previously at Roma, as a DOF, and now being able to sign Porto's number one striker off them in Evanilson. AFC Bournemouth.

 

We have a head start on a number of clubs with some of the talent we have, but how long will that last for. We seem to be going down a very particular road when it comes to the players we are targeting lately. We keep hearing from the manager that there is only a very small pool of players that can improve our team. That is very very hard to believe.

 

For me personally, the alarm bells are ringing. But maybe I am wrong. We will soon see.

Going to the dark side is fine, but I don't think you've gone dark enough. You seem to be leavening it with huge amounts of faith in Eales and Mitchell, which I don't think is warranted. I think the situation is quite possibly worse than that.

 

Also, Howe seems to be getting assigned the blame for a host of things that he wasn't or shouldn't have been responsible for. You point out that Howe himself has said we haven't got enough data in our scouting, and ask who is responsible for that situation. Well, the answer would be the previously incumbent DOF (and board) - but you seem to be steadfast in the idea that we should be backing whoever is occupying the DOF position because the concept of the position itself is good. 

 

I think the idea - that seems to be taking hold with some - that Mitchell has no responsibility for the summer window, and every transfer action taken after he joined is Howe's fault, is ridiculous. The idea he would try and fail and spend £55m-£70m on Marc Guehi for a month, most likely returning us to serious PSR debt in the process, even though he thought it was a bad idea and knew better than to buy players of this profile as it would hamstring our future trading options, just because he wanted to give his subordinate a golden hello and keep relations stable, and doesn't bear responsibility for that, is preposterous.

 

If the last sentence reads too long, that's because it's a very silly proposition. What kind of new employee goes hard in the paint on a strategy that they themselves predict will deeply compromise the next 3+ years of their primary business responsibility? If he was opposed to it and thought it was a product of 'not fit for purpose' thinking, he should have taken hold of his responsibility as an expert, put his foot down, and told whoever was necessary "no".

 

But supposedly he didn't, for some reason.

[Upthemags]

56 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

I am fully on the dark side now.

 

The summer really ticked me off and I don't like where things are going.

 

It's my opinion, from the noises out there, regarding issues previously at Bournemouth, issues with Ashworth and issues with Mitchell, that Howe appears very rigid in the way he works and is not going to be able to work with a highly qualified Director of Football.

 

I do not want any manager that functions like this. Not with the way things are going in football. I do not trust any one man to be able to pull it off.

 

We will lose out on the contacts a DOF has with other clubs, agents and execs that typically helps facilitate transfers and opens up so many more options and possibilities. We will also miss out on being at the forefront of the most cutting edge recruitment data and analysis, that is usually pushed by the DOF. 

 

When it comes to competing for players with other clubs that have such people in place, we cannot afford to have Howe going up against them during breaks in training, or whoever else at the club that doesn't have a strong enough reputation and gravitas with the right people, if we don't have a legit DOF. We apparently don't even have a data driven approach to recruitment yet, according to Howe, and are still relying on traditional scouting only. This is one of the first things that should have been addressed at the club. Why is this still the case? Who was in charge of such things?

 

Things are moving very quickly. We are now seeing the likes of Bournemouth hiring Tiago Pinto, who was previously at Roma, as a DOF, and now being able to sign Porto's number one striker off them in Evanilson. AFC Bournemouth.

 

We have a head start on a number of clubs with some of the talent we have, but how long will that last for. We seem to be going down a very particular road when it comes to the players we are targeting lately. We keep hearing from the manager that there is only a very small pool of players that can improve our team. That is very very hard to believe.

 

For me personally, the alarm bells are ringing. But maybe I am wrong. We will soon see.

Bang on here. Whether our recruitment and operations are dysfunctional or not, our top brass seems to believe so. I think there will be seismic changes in player personnel, management and otherwise the next calendar year as a result, and I think we'll see the wheels in motion as soon as the January window opens.

[gbandit]

👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 @80 and @timeEd32

 

 

Edited Monday at 14:08 by gbandit

[80]

24 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

I don't really disagree with a lot of what you're saying other than the fact you seem to be pinning this entirely on Howe. If this summer ticked you off then you should be very annoyed about summer 2023 because you can trace all of the problems back to that. It was somewhere between naive and reckless and we had a DoF in place. I am not, under any circumstances, putting financial and PSR management at the foot of the manager. That blame needs to lie elsewhere.

 

We've also had reports that part of Eddie's preference for PL players is the lack of data available from other leagues. This is probably why we haven't exploited South American talent or smaller leagues in Europe. There's really no reason to think Eddie is opposed to having a DoF in place so that's hurdle one.

 

The next big thing is the level of power each role has and who has final say on certain things. If there's an issue it's likely here and this is where there absolutely has to be concessions on Eddie's part. We genuinely have no idea at the moment where this line is and whether or not he's happy about it.

 

Honestly mostly of your complaints seem like they could be leveled at some combination of PIF, Staveley, Eales, and Ashworth (as well as Howe), but you've just decided that every bad thing is the fault of the manager (ahem, head coach - another sign he knew from the beginning he wouldn't be all-powerful) despite singing his praises for 2+ years.

That teaches me for not reading ahead before posting my own thoughts!

[SUPERTOON]

3 minutes ago, 80 said:

Going to the dark side is fine, but I don't think you've gone dark enough. You seem to be leavening it with huge amounts of faith in Eales and Mitchell, which I don't think is warranted. I think the situation is quite possibly worse than that.

 

Also, Howe seems to be getting assigned the blame for a host of things that he wasn't or shouldn't have been responsible for. You point out that Howe himself has said we haven't got enough data in our scouting, and ask who is responsible for that situation. Well, the answer would be the previously incumbent DOF (and board) - but you seem to be steadfast in the idea that we should be backing whoever is occupying the DOF position because the concept of the position itself is good. 

 

I think the idea - that seems to be taking hold with some - that Mitchell has no responsibility for the summer window, and every transfer action taken after he joined is Howe's fault, is ridiculous. The idea he would try and fail and spend £55m-£70m on Marc Guehi for a month, most likely returning us to serious PSR debt in the process, even though he thought it was a bad idea and knew better than to buy players of this profile as it would hamstring our future trading options, just because he wanted to give his subordinate a golden hello and keep relations stable, and doesn't bear responsibility for that, is preposterous.

 

If the last sentence reads too long, that's because it's a very silly proposition. What kind of new employee goes hard in the paint on a strategy that they themselves predict will deeply compromise the next 3+ years of their primary business responsibility? If he was opposed to it and thought it was a product of 'not fit for purpose' thinking, he should have taken hold of his responsibility as an expert, put his foot down, and told whoever was necessary "no".

 

But supposedly he didn't, for some reason.

That explanation is arguably more concerning than of it was just one of them to blame.

[80]

16 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Are people now in acceptance that the club/Howe target PL players over foreign based options? Quite a few on here have said that for a while and been slated for it.

It's funny isn't it

[Erikse]

15 minutes ago, Upthemags said:

Not sure how true this is mate. I think talent wise Brighton is just about our match/peer.

 

We have some bigger names on the team sheet, but does a Longstaff, a Murphy, a Dan Burn get a minute of playing time for Brighton? I don't think so.

 

Right now we have 4 midfielders who are better than Longstaff, so he's our 5th choice when all players are fit without suspensions, unless we need to play him for tactical reasons. I think our starting 11 is stronger in most positions. Not sure about depth, I don't know enough about their backup/rotation options. But if we are measuring expectations based on spending, we have for sure spent way more than Brighton in the last few years. I'd imagine that our wage budget is on a completely different level.

 

 

Edited Monday at 14:19 by Erikse

[The College Dropout]

Agree Mitchell has had a piss poor start.  

[SUPERTOON]

7 minutes ago, 80 said:

It's funny isn't it

Yep, some of the abuse people took for saying it was way OTT as well.

[GEFAFWISP]

Mitchell licking his fangs that people have fell for his interview and are pinning the transfer window failures on Howe.

[Hanshithispantz]

1 hour ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

I can't see it changing anytime soon though. I think we're too one dimensional in how we set up & play and don't have the personnel to change that because we didn't sign anyone that allows us to, this summer or last. 

 

Like I say I can't see a logical reason why I can be certain we'll improve other than blind faith.

 

 

 

The players we have have played far, far better though.

 

I remember after Christmas in the 4th season, where we looked like we'd been sussed, only to go on another run and we were in the CL. Small tweaks can make a massive difference and the way Howe has chopped and changed the starting XI shows he's still trying to find something that works.

 

He did the same in his first season, where he couldn't buy a point until we suddenly had one of the best defences in the league.

 

 

Edited Monday at 14:26 by Hanshithispantz

[TRon]

45 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

I don't really disagree with a lot of what you're saying other than the fact you seem to be pinning this entirely on Howe. If this summer ticked you off then you should be very annoyed about summer 2023 because you can trace all of the problems back to that. It was somewhere between naive and reckless and we had a DoF in place. I am not, under any circumstances, putting financial and PSR management at the foot of the manager. That blame needs to lie elsewhere.

 

We've also had reports that part of Eddie's preference for PL players is the lack of data available from other leagues. This is probably why we haven't exploited South American talent or smaller leagues in Europe. There's really no reason to think Eddie is opposed to having a DoF in place so that's hurdle one.

 

The next big thing is the level of power each role has and who has final say on certain things. If there's an issue it's likely here and this is where there absolutely has to be concessions on Eddie's part. We genuinely have no idea at the moment where this line is and whether or not he's happy about it.

 

Honestly mostly of your complaints seem like they could be leveled at some combination of PIF, Staveley, Eales, and Ashworth (as well as Howe), but you've just decided that every bad thing is the fault of the manager (ahem, head coach - another sign he knew from the beginning he wouldn't be all-powerful) despite singing his praises for 2+ years.

 

From all that you would have thought Howe would have loved having a DOF on board so he would have all the foreign based stats available to him. Maybe he does, all this is just being generated off a terrible transfer window which no one is taking responsibility for, and we are assuming they have fallen out, whereas it might just be a case of getting aligned.

 

Personally I do think we need someone like Mitchell in who will take charge of recruitment. There's been one terrible window, but I would like to think that was to do with the timing, and we were pursuing targets already in place. In future windows I would expect Mitchell to be bringing a lot more to the table.

[Erikse]

45 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I mean, we’ve had a good start though. 

 

Good post Kaka. I still support Howe but it sounds like he needs to change his mindset a bit. 
 

 

 

Didn't mean to say that our start was like theirs, I was just agreeing with the fact that they had several opportunities to fire Arteta, but stuck with him and got rewarded. And Arteta might be the best example of it.

[SUPERTOON]

1 minute ago, Erikse said:

 

Didn't mean to say that our start was like theirs, I was just agreeing with the fact that they had several opportunities to fire Arteta, but stuck with him and got rewarded. And Arteta might be the best example of it.

Him winning the FA cup in his first season probably gave him more time.

[Upthemags]

20 minutes ago, GEFAFWISP said:

Mitchell licking his fangs that people have fell for his interview and are pinning the transfer window failures on Howe.

The drive to turn Mitchell into a super villain is one of the stranger impulses I've seen on here.

[Erikse]

2 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Him winning the FA cup in his first season probably gave him more time.

 

That's true. But I think like 95% of Arsenals fanbase was screaming Arteta out for atleast 1 year straight. Gotta admit I was confused as to why they didn't sack him at the time.

 

 

Edited Monday at 14:43 by Erikse

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, Erikse said:

 

That's true. But I think like 95% of Arsenals fanbase was screaming Arteta out for atleast 1 year straight.

Definitely, just have to watch that Arsenal documentary on Prime to see that tbh.

[Terrymac1966]

31 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Agree Mitchell has had a piss poor start.  

A man proven at unearthing cheap talent on lower wages is banging heads with someone who wants the opposite. Something has to give....