TheBrownBottle Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Just now, joeyt said: And yet we got Hall, Bruno, Botman, Isak, Burn for ridiculously good deals. Tonali possibly too We paid market prices for those players I’d say - other than Burn. They were successful signings, but we didn’t get them at bargain valuations. Hall in particular was very expensive - irrespective of performances since. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said: We paid market prices for those players I’d say - other than Burn. They were successful signings, but we didn’t get them at bargain valuations. Hall in particular was very expensive - irrespective of performances since. No one is giving us bargains as they know we're flush with money (but can't spend it) You can't say he overspent on some players but then not give him credit for increasing the value of a bunch of players he's also signed in his tenure. We probably paid market prices for Barnes and Targett. You can't say we overspent in hindsight but not acknowledge that we've bought some brilliant players who have increased in value since they joined us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 take a points deduction ffs. i'm done with this psr shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 minute ago, joeyt said: No one is giving us bargains as they know we're flush with money (but can't spend it) You can't say he overspent on some players but then not give him credit for increasing the value of a bunch of players he's also signed in his tenure. We probably paid market prices for Barnes and Targett. You can't say we overspent in hindsight but not acknowledge that we've bought some brilliant players who have increased in value since they joined us I didn’t say we haven’t - in terms of successes in bringing players in, I think Howe is probably the best we’ve had. The vast majority of his signings have worked and have improved us. I think it is selling where the problem has been - I think we’ve held on to players too long, and have paid a price for that. Especially in PSR times, selling is as important as buying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Displayname Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Without looking at how the signings worked out in retrospect, id say £40m on two young talented fullbacks and £40m for a backup LW was not the right move considering our lack of squad depth and the position we have gotten into the last few transfer windows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 minute ago, Displayname said: Without looking at how the signings worked out in retrospect, id say £40m on two young talented fullbacks and £40m for a backup LW was not the right move considering our lack of squad depth and the position we have gotten into the last few transfer windows. Point taken, though Hall and Livramento cost a fair bit more than that. If we’d sold a Joelinton or Almiron or Willock (or all of them) that summer we’d have got peak value for them and could’ve added to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Displayname Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Point taken, though Hall and Livramento cost a fair bit more than that. If we’d sold a Joelinton or Almiron or Willock (or all of them) that summer we’d have got peak value for them and could’ve added to them. Probably missed an oppurtunity to sell someone after that season yeah. No idea if we had any offers though. Not selling Trippier last January was definitely a mistake imo. Meant £40m each btw, but was maybe £30m for Hall? Edited March 2 by Displayname Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingArthur Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 We really need players in this summer. He needs help and fresh bodies. This core has been brought as far as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GideonShandy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 12 minutes ago, Displayname said: Without looking at how the signings worked out in retrospect, id say £40m on two young talented fullbacks and £40m for a backup LW was not the right move considering our lack of squad depth and the position we have gotten into the last few transfer windows. So, except for the fact that they worked out well and the players turned out to be good, these were stupid transfers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Just now, GideonShandy said: So, except for the fact that they worked out well and the players turned out to be good, these were stupid transfers? I don’t think that’s what was being said, at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 15 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: I didn’t say we haven’t - in terms of successes in bringing players in, I think Howe is probably the best we’ve had. The vast majority of his signings have worked and have improved us. I think it is selling where the problem has been - I think we’ve held on to players too long, and have paid a price for that. Especially in PSR times, selling is as important as buying. I mentioned this in the Bruno thread where everyone was outraged at the thought of selling Bruno. It is outrageous...but in a PSR world, if you don't get CL then you have to start looking at selling 27yr olds before they start depreciating if you want to have spending power in the future. Ugly but true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GideonShandy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: I don’t think that’s what was being said, at all. Where's the logic in passing judgment on transfers "without looking at how they worked out in retrospect"? It's only in retrospect that a transfer can be sensibly evaluated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Just now, TRon said: I mentioned this in the Bruno thread where everyone was outraged at the thought of selling Bruno. It is outrageous...but in a PSR world, if you don't get CL then you have to start looking at selling 27yr olds before they start depreciating if you want to have spending power in the future. Ugly but true. Yep, as fucking desperate as it all is, you have to do these things. And tbf none of the players signed in the ‘first wave’ after the takeover were likely to be here for the rest of their careers. It’s sell or stand still - and last summer we decided to stand still. We can’t do it again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Just now, GideonShandy said: Where's the logic in passing judgment on transfers "without looking at how they worked out in retrospect"? It's only in retrospect that a transfer can be sensibly evaluated. It’s more about transfer strategy than a criticism of the individuals involved. I think Barnes is a very handy PL winger - but did we need another LW? Did we need to spend c.£70m on two young fullbacks, regardless of how good they were - ahead of a RW or a RCB? It isn’t that the players signed aren’t good enough, it’s whether the strategy was for the greater good. It’s not an unreasonable point to make. Personally, I’m ok with all of those signings - again, I think we should have been better sellers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GideonShandy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 3 hours ago, Holmesy said: But the players have to take some of the blame as well, and the board take most of it for not supplying Eddie with the tools he needs to move us forward. What is "the board" to blame for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Displayname Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 6 minutes ago, GideonShandy said: Where's the logic in passing judgment on transfers "without looking at how they worked out in retrospect"? It's only in retrospect that a transfer can be sensibly evaluated. Im not passing judgement on the individual transfers, but on the overall strategy. At the time i was all for the signings though, but i didnt know that it would put us in this position. Edited March 2 by Displayname Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GideonShandy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 So if we'd stuck with the full backs we already had (who now hardly get a game), and bought an expensive right winger who turned out to be a dud, would you have complimented the club on its overall strategy even though in retrospect things didn't work out? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitley mag Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Just now, GideonShandy said: So if we'd stuck with the full backs we already had (who now hardly get a game), and bought an expensive right winger who turned out to be a dud, would you have complimented the club on its overall strategy even though in retrospect things didn't work out? They bought a 2nd choice left winger who is a dud, they could have bought Milos Kerkez and Huijsen for what we paid for Hall. It’s history now but we paid premium prices for PL experience when we clearly weren’t in a position to do so. You can’t blame the ambition but 3 transfer windows of no activity show it was badly planned and suspect that’s one of the reasons PCP went the journey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
500bhp Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 30 minutes ago, Displayname said: Without looking at how the signings worked out in retrospect, id say £40m on two young talented fullbacks and £40m for a backup LW was not the right move considering our lack of squad depth and the position we have gotten into the last few transfer windows. I'd love to know the cost of each of those 16 players Brighton had on the pitch today plus the unused subs. I bet not many cost over £40m each, if any. There's bargains and value to be had out there, we need to be more adventurous in our signings. Not every player needs to have PL experience. Not all RCBs need to cost £65m from a bottom half PL team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Displayname Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 13 minutes ago, GideonShandy said: So if we'd stuck with the full backs we already had (who now hardly get a game), and bought an expensive right winger who turned out to be a dud, would you have complimented the club on its overall strategy even though in retrospect things didn't work out? I wouldnt have used all the money for a RW. Rather the opposite i would have bought alot more cheaper signings. The last two season our squad depth have been what has been dragging us down. Either through players getting fatigued or that replacements for injured players just werent the quality needed. Edited March 2 by Displayname Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GideonShandy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 The club just can't win. They bought Bruno, Isak, Tonali, Botman but still get criticized on here for not being "more adventurous in our signings," for only looking at players with "PL experience" and for not spending its money on "a lot more cheaper signings" instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Displayname Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 10 minutes ago, GideonShandy said: The club just can't win. They bought Bruno, Isak, Tonali, Botman but still get criticized on here for not being "more adventurous in our signings," for only looking at players with "PL experience" and for not spending its money on "a lot more cheaper signings" instead. If by win you mean everyone agreeing with what they are doing then no, obviously not. I need to correct myself a little though, my preffered strategy would have probably been selling some of our bigger players to finance a larger squad. Wouldnt have to go for the cheaper ones then. Edited March 2 by Displayname Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
500bhp Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 10 minutes ago, GideonShandy said: The club just can't win. They bought Bruno, Isak, Tonali, Botman but still get criticized on here for not being "more adventurous in our signings," for only looking at players with "PL experience" and for not spending its money on "a lot more cheaper signings" instead. It's not just the signings. It's the selling of players at the right time. Those funds can bring in more adventurous players in the £5m-£15m bracket from the lower divisions or abroad. We didn't sell Miggy or Wilson or Trippier at the right time. That's passed now. But we can't replicate that going forward. This summer is the peak time to sell Longstaff, Murphy, Pope, Barnes and maybe even Bruno. Willock wont increase in value going forward I suspect. So its this summer for him. The whole team looks stale. We need a big turnover of players. KK was brilliant at selling at the right time, Howe needs to do the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibierski Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, Displayname said: Without looking at how the signings worked out in retrospect, id say £40m on two young talented fullbacks and £40m for a backup LW was not the right move considering our lack of squad depth and the position we have gotten into the last few transfer windows. Young full backs were needed. We had none, and they now mean we don’t need to spend big there for rest of decade. Our issue is more we don’t sell well. Started to do so in January so hopefully that’s the start of Mitchell ethos, but in summer 23 and winter 24, we did sell as much as we should’ve to refresh squad. Blinded by loyalty because we got to UCL, and it’s hurt us since. Because so many of the team should’ve been moved on, didn’t matter if they ‘deserved’ a chance. It’s like a newly promoted club, if the players are not good enough, they have to be moved on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I know I was in the minority, but I thought the signings of Barnes, Tino and Hall were fine at the time. I do agree though that the strategy to pay large fees for more or less sure things was never going to be sustainable given the PSR constraints. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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