Eddie Howe

[SteV]

2 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

We could include Trippier amongst the overseas players then. Joelinton aswell, although he was an Ashley signing.

 

 

 

Trippier was a very particular case though. Unlikely you find a player of that quality wanting to come ‘home’ for an affordable price.

[Yorkie]

16 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

We signed Isak, Botman, Tonali and Bruno from overseas. All signed for smaller fees relative to their quality, and all has played a huge part in our success. I don't think we would get any of those if they were already in the PL, especially not for that price. The only PL signings we've made that can compare to these is Hall and Livra, both bought as talents with high future potensial.

 

When you see underdogs punching way above their weight in the PL, it almost allways involves bargains from overseas.

 

We signed those players to go from bottom half to top. The point Ange is making (which I agree with) is you then have to buy the best in the league to make the next leap. We tried to do that but couldn't and so we targeted the best quality we could. 

 

I agree that we should sign players from abroad and we always do. I'm just make a defence for our choices to sign the best PL players we could.

[SteV]

Sporting a sharp new trim in today’s presser 💇‍♂️

[Erikse]

1 hour ago, SteV said:

Trippier was a very particular case though. Unlikely you find a player of that quality wanting to come ‘home’ for an affordable price.

 

Yeah, that's why I originally didn't include him. Dan Burn was also a rare one. A geordie wanting to come home (which helped us getting him in january for a cheap price), and exceeded everyones expectation by a mile (not exactly the norm for a PL signing of his profile with age and everything). It's hard to find an equivalent in the PL.

 

I also forgot to mention Thiaw earlier. We signed mostly PL players last summer, but our best signing (so far it seems) came from abroad.

 

 

Edited February 13 by Erikse

[Erikse]

32 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

We signed those players to go from bottom half to top. The point Ange is making (which I agree with) is you then have to buy the best in the league to make the next leap. We tried to do that but couldn't and so we targeted the best quality we could. 

 

I agree that we should sign players from abroad and we always do. I'm just make a defence for our choices to sign the best PL players we could.

 

Sure, but all 4 players I mentioned could have been getting good minutes for a top team anyways. Botman being a question mark due to injuries. In a hypothetical world, more of these signings (Isak, Bruno, Tonali, Botman before injuries) would help us make the next leap, although I respect that it's difficult to nail them every time we've done before.

 

I just think that if you compare our signings from abroad to our PL signings, it's pretty clear what we've generally been more successful with.

[Holmesy]

19 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

Well firstly, the 'best options from overseas' isn't a market which is available to us either, certainly not in terms of strikers (hence Woltemade instead of Ekitike).

 

You're saying there's two categories of players we could target: A; 'best of the rest' PL players, who have already proven themselves in this league, and B; 'best of the rest' overseas players, who haven't proved a thing in this league. I don't know how category A is the worst strategic option there.

 

It's a bit of a moot point anyway because we shopped in both markets last summer; which seems to get forgotten about when folks have got tunnel vision re their PrEmIeR lEaGuE pRoVeN jibe.

Best is relative though. We're not going to get Vini Junior or Mbappe for example, but we got close to getting Ekitike who is infinitely better than Delap. He has also adapted to the PL very quickly. Bruno, Sandro, Thiaw and Schar slotted into the PL quickly, represented much better value for money than our recent "PL-proven" signings and all had/have a much higher ceiling. 
You can't tell me you don't think we could have got better players from overseas for £45m, £43m and £55m respectively than Gordon, Ramsey and Elanga?

[Cf]

30 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Best is relative though. We're not going to get Vini Junior or Mbappe for example, but we got close to getting Ekitike who is infinitely better than Delap. He has also adapted to the PL very quickly. Bruno, Sandro, Thiaw and Schar slotted into the PL quickly, represented much better value for money than our recent "PL-proven" signings and all had/have a much higher ceiling. 
You can't tell me you don't think we could have got better players from overseas for £45m, £43m and £55m respectively than Gordon, Ramsey and Elanga?

 

We lost out on Ekitike twice to PSG and Liverpool. 

 

And for that amount of money abroad we might get lucky and get some decent players or we could easily end up with some duds. 

[Holmesy]

16 minutes ago, Cf said:

 

We lost out on Ekitike twice to PSG and Liverpool. 

 

And for that amount of money abroad we might get lucky and get some decent players or we could easily end up with some duds. 

I can't think of one dud we've signed who came directly to us from a foreign league in the past few years. But I can think of a few "PL-proven" ones.

Look, I don't think anyone could argue that our bias towards PL-proven hasn't served us well recently. Surely that's a given?  We already have a solid core of English players, let's stop obsessing over average "PL-proven" players and trust our scouting team to find better alternatives elsewhere. I don't think there's even an argument to be had is there?
 

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

2 hours ago, Erikse said:

 

Sure, but all 4 players I mentioned could have been getting good minutes for a top team anyways. Botman being a question mark due to injuries. In a hypothetical world, more of these signings (Isak, Bruno, Tonali, Botman before injuries) would help us make the next leap, although I respect that it's difficult to nail them every time we've done before.

 

I just think that if you compare our signings from abroad to our PL signings, it's pretty clear what we've generally been more successful with.

I guess I must’ve just imagined us trying to sign Ekitike and Sesko this summer then?

 

We tried to get the best we could from abroad (Heck we got a record signing from the Bundesliga), but we are just as vulnerable to being blown out of the water by the ESL6 when targeting players from abroad too

[Holmesy]

7 minutes ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said:

I guess I must’ve just imagined us trying to sign Ekitike and Sesko this summer then?

 

We tried to get the best we could from abroad (Heck we got a record signing from the Bundesliga), but we are just as vulnerable to being blown out of the water by the ESL6 when targeting players from abroad too

True, but there are literally thousands of players playing in other leagues and only a small number playing in the PL. We have less chance statistically of being blown out of the water if we cast our net further. If we adjust our blueprint to include developing talent in addition to signing first team ready players (and I still think we should be going for the best out there), we might actually move forward quicker and have a pool of players we could sell for profit if they don't make the grade.
Realistically, how much could we have saved signings players from overseas of the quality of Gordon, Ramsey and Elanga? £60-70m? They are not the top tier of player but because they are supposedly PL=proven, they all went for a premium. If we have to sign a lower tier of player to bolster the squad, I'd rather we shopped abroad to save some money.
And of course we'll still get beaten to top talent by the cartel, it's inevitable but it won't happen every time. We seem to have a very small number of specific targets in mind in every window. Being risk adverse is prudent but I think we should adopt a slightly higher risk profile because that strategy is holding us back.

[Abacus]

22 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

I can't think of one dud we've signed who came directly to us from a foreign league in the past few years. But I can think of a few "PL-proven" ones.

Look, I don't think anyone could argue that our bias towards PL-proven hasn't served us well recently. Surely that's a given?  We already have a solid core of English players, let's stop obsessing over average "PL-proven" players and trust our scouting team to find better alternatives elsewhere. I don't think there's even an argument to be had is there?
 

 

I'm not sure where the PL ready players or PL proven thing came from - was it directly from Howe himself or something that was implied on here? I genuinely don't know, honest question, either one might well have been from Howe.

 

I suppose not to be too semantic, if it's PL ready that's a bit different from proven though. The first one doesn't automatically mean players already in the PL, which proven would. Just instead someone that can hit the ground running as a lot of our imports have proven able to.

 

Like I say, I'm just not sure where it came from or the meaning behind it. Not questioning that it's best to be exploring wider markets even than just from Europe, though.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It’s never been anything really, it’s just an ongoing assumption/criticism of Howe. 

[Loki679]

48 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It’s never been anything really, it’s just an ongoing assumption/criticism of Howe. 

 

£55m would buy a hell of a lot of striker outside the PL.

[TRon]

2 hours ago, loki679 said:

 

£55m would buy a hell of a lot of striker outside the PL.

 

 

Not sure it would tbh. 

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

2 hours ago, loki679 said:

 

£55m would buy a hell of a lot of striker outside the PL.

And yet I think nearly every striker bought by a PL club from another European league who has actually had any impact in the league this season has cost significantly more, Gyokeres, Ekitike, Sesko, Woltemade for example

 

[timeEd32]

5 hours ago, Holmesy said:

Best is relative though. We're not going to get Vini Junior or Mbappe for example, but we got close to getting Ekitike who is infinitely better than Delap. He has also adapted to the PL very quickly. Bruno, Sandro, Thiaw and Schar slotted into the PL quickly, represented much better value for money than our recent "PL-proven" signings and all had/have a much higher ceiling. 
You can't tell me you don't think we could have got better players from overseas for £45m, £43m and £55m respectively than Gordon, Ramsey and Elanga?

 

Are you referring to Gordon as a dud signing?

[Holmesy]

26 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

Are you referring to Gordon as a dud signing?

No, I wouldn't call him a dud - he's had patches where he's been excellent. But he's also had spells where he's been crap. I think we could've got a player of similar quality and consistency level from the continent or south america for. lot less than we paid for him.

[timeEd32]

6 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

No, I wouldn't call him a dud - he's had patches where he's been excellent. But he's also had spells where he's been crap. I think we could've got a player of similar quality and consistency level from the continent or south america for. lot less than we paid for him.

 

Ok, thought you were and thought that'd be very unfair. I'm underwhelmed by Gordon a lot of the time, but these cost levels are true on both ends: a £20m player from elsewhere who performed exactly like him wouldn't be worth £70m+ right now.

[Gawalls]

13 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

No, I wouldn't call him a dud - he's had patches where he's been excellent. But he's also had spells where he's been crap. I think we could've got a player of similar quality and consistency level from the continent or south america for. lot less than we paid for him.

Been playing football manager again have we? He barely cost us shit loads and he's gone through spells off consistently scoring against the top teams. Not going to check and there's probably not a way to check but there's a strong argument to say we would have missed out on champions League at least one of those times without him.

[Gawalls]

1 hour ago, TRon said:

 

 

Not sure it would tbh. 

I'm fairly certain it wouldn't

[Gawalls]

I love this argument people have making it sound easy "we'll buy these PL proven players from outside the premiere League for a lot cheaper, they're only cheaper because they haven't been proven in the premiere League yet that's all"

[Theregulars]

We want to sign you to play in the premier league.

 

Ok, cool cool. I’ve got some useful experience I think

 

Oh yeh? What’s that then?

 

I’ve played in the Premier League.

 

Typical. Off to vote Howe out, the coward 

[timeEd32]

Quote

"We always want to fight for the gaffer because we know what he has done for each and every single one of us as players," Elanga said. "I've been here for seven months, but I've felt like he's improved me so much.

 

"There are things people don't see on the training ground, but he's helped me so much it's unbelievable. He was one of the reasons I wanted to come here because I knew he would improve me as a player.

 

"Going on the pitch, we always want to fight for him, even more so that game against Tottenham. Yes, we did that but can we do it again, again and again?"

[Holmesy]

17 hours ago, Gawalls said:

I love this argument people have making it sound easy "we'll buy these PL proven players from outside the premiere League for a lot cheaper, they're only cheaper because they haven't been proven in the premiere League yet that's all"

Exactly the point. Take a risk on buying players who aren't PL proven to make our budget stretch further. Constantly paying the PL-proven tax is unnecessary IMO. 

[Abacus]

31 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Exactly the point. Take a risk on buying players who aren't PL proven to make our budget stretch further. Constantly paying the PL-proven tax is unnecessary IMO. 

 

I think it's more a Newcastle tax.

 

In any case, I've seen no evidence we're just buying premier league players when we've bought Thiaw and Woltemade just last summer from outside it.

 

Like I said earlier, no idea where this "PL proven" idea has come from in the first place. From Eddie or just from people's heads?