Eddie Howe

[TRon]

3 hours ago, stabmasterareson said:

I've been reading this board long enough, I don't need the same doom merchant takes being recycled. 

 

The club is going through it's best period in a generation and there's a subset of people here that think that isn't good enough.  For the first time in ~20 years as a fan base we should be able to have a modicum of trust in our manager and enjoy the ride, with all the ups and downs that entails. Some people would rather not.  They can go back and watch Pardew and Bruce era highlights if they want, I'm going to enjoy a champions league knockout round match against Barcelona instead. 

 

 

 

 

Which is fine, but we might need to rein in our ambitions for a while. That means complying with SCR so selling star players who want to move on to bigger clubs and replacing within our budget. 

[Displayname]

13 hours ago, SteV said:

Obviously nothing is simplistic, but who should we definitely be finishing above every season out the ‘big’ 6 and Villa?

Spurs? They suck balls.

[Spartan]

4 hours ago, stabmasterareson said:

I've been reading this board long enough, I don't need the same doom merchant takes being recycled. 

 

The club is going through it's best period in a generation and there's a subset of people here that think that isn't good enough.  For the first time in ~20 years as a fan base we should be able to have a modicum of trust in our manager and enjoy the ride, with all the ups and downs that entails. Some people would rather not.  They can go back and watch Pardew and Bruce era highlights if they want, I'm going to enjoy a champions league knockout round match against Barcelona instead. 

 

 

 

It's the owners who will make the decision on whether it is good enough, not you, me, the subset, or anybody else. Rightfully so also.

[HaydnNUFC]

For my tuppence from over the last few days if he doesn’t reach Wembley (so that’s at least the semi finals of the FA Cup) and assuming we go out to Barcelona and we finish in the bottom 6 on top of that I’d be in favour of a change. Lot of ifs there mind, as I want him to turn it around.
 

But we have been dire to watch this season, the league campaign is on the brink of becoming shambolic and we still need surgery to that squad, which I don’t believe gets done. Get those ticket prices risen again, David.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

We’ve been frustrating to watch this year but loads better than anything we saw under since Ba, Cisse, Ben Arfa. 

[HaydnNUFC]

Just now, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

We’ve been frustrating to watch this year but loads better than anything we saw under since Ba, Cisse, Ben Arfa. 

I reckon I enjoyed more games in the second half of 2018-19 under Benitez than I have this season.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

1 minute ago, HaydnNUFC said:

I reckon I enjoyed more games in the second half of 2018-19 under Benitez than I have this season.

I don’t disagree, like I say its been incredibly frustrating but I’d be hard pressed to say we were a better footballing side under Rafa, just could do things like score a goal and then not immediately concede. 

 

 

Edited March 4 by Shays Given Tim Flowers

[Kid Icarus]

I reckon I enjoyed more games in 2021-22, 2022-23, 2023-24, and 2024-25 under Howe than I have this season (or any other seasons this side of 1995-96) as well.

 

 

Edited March 4 by Kid Icarus

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Also Rafa’s stewardship emotionally felt like a reprieve from and a finger up to Mike Ashley. This season has felt like we’re grist to a PSR mill. 

[Kid Icarus]

Rafa was pure triumph over self-imposed adversity. I appreciated and eventually enjoyed watching us defend under him, but beyond that the on-the-ball stuff was largely dire. That's not something I at all lay at his door though and it was enjoyable when we got results with it. 

 

 

Edited March 4 by Kid Icarus

[SteV]

11 minutes ago, Displayname said:

Spurs? They suck balls.

Currently. But it shouldn’t take too much to make them competent again. Prior to last season they’d finished lower than 7th once in the last 15 years (and that was 8th).

[HaydnNUFC]

4 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said:

Also Rafa’s stewardship emotionally felt like a reprieve from and a finger up to Mike Ashley. This season has felt like we’re grist to a PSR mill. 

Last season felt like that because we couldn’t spend on top of selling 2 good prospects, this season hasn’t felt that way to me in spite of the Isak carry on due to the players we have brought in for big money are likely going to land us a bottom half finish below the mackems from 5th.

 

 

Edited March 4 by HaydnNUFC

[Kid Icarus]

I think I said it in the summer, but that summer transfer window was pure 'The Empire Strikes Back' imo - nigh on every first or second choice we went for had one of the big 6 step in to sign them, and in some cases I think stopping us getting them was more of a motivating factor for them than them wanting them. 

 

 

Edited March 4 by Kid Icarus

[The College Dropout]

I’m more concerned about our owners being competent than if they think Howe is competent 

[OverThere]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I’m more concerned about our owners being competent than if they think Howe is competent 

Yup. They don't seem to be able to make a decision. The whole Staveley -Eales- Mitchell trajectory was shambolic.

[Displayname]

20 minutes ago, SteV said:

Currently. But it shouldn’t take too much to make them competent again. Prior to last season they’d finished lower than 7th once in the last 15 years (and that was 8th).

Yeah, but this is the second year in a row going to finish near relegation. I haven`t studied their finances, but doubt they can go full Man U and just buy their way out of their current predicament in the short term.

 

 

Edited March 4 by Displayname

[alexf]

16 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

For my tuppence from over the last few days if he doesn’t reach Wembley (so that’s at least the semi finals of the FA Cup) and assuming we go out to Barcelona and we finish in the bottom 6 on top of that I’d be in favour of a change. Lot of ifs there mind, as I want him to turn it around.
 

But we have been dire to watch this season, the league campaign is on the brink of becoming shambolic and we still need surgery to that squad, which I don’t believe gets done. Get those ticket prices risen again, David.

 

For me this shows a classic case of fan's expectations rising too quickly off the back of some recent success. It's fine if you feel that way as it was always going to happen, but if Eddie's team had a more steady rise like getting conference league then Europa then Champions league I wonder if people would be still feeling the same way. 

 

It would have been a steady incline curve rather than the jagged up and down we have had season to season.

 

We arguably overachieved 22/23 in getting to CL and a cup final. Then we dropped off the following year because the squad couldn't handle all the extra games and the really tough draws in all cups but were unlucky not to secure European football by getting 7th. 

Last year we equal the league performance 22/23 pretty much but go one better than that season by winning the league cup final this time. 

 

This year is basically a repeat of 23/24 but with the context that we had an awful summer preparation with all the Isak shite, starting the season with no striker and then pretty much all our top targets going to rivals. Team who loses their best player and doesn't adequately replace him and has to play more games (16 more games than Man utd so far for example) dropping down the league positions is not a huge shock.

 

You couple that with again ridiculous cup draws meaning we never ever seem to get an easy game where we can rest players and ultimately we have lost too many key players for too long to injury. Tino, Schar and now Bruno spring to mind.

 

I just find people saying that being in knockout phase of CL, the later stages of FA cup, reaching semifinal of league cup but struggling in the league is somehow grounds for sacking?

 

Sure criticism is fine, being so poor in the league is naturally going to put pressure on you to improve. But apply some context to it and look at the underlying reasons. Eddie has earned the right to have a poor period of form and should be allowed time to correct it.

 

Small margins but if we had a few less brutal cup draws I think we then manage to avoid a few more injuries and even if we had just had Tino or Bruno a bit more I think we sit top 8 comfortably. How many games did Hall and Tino start together? Must be a handful at most.

[The College Dropout]

11 minutes ago, Displayname said:

Yeah, but this is the second year in a row going to finish near relegation. I haven`t studied their finances, but doubt they can go full Man U and just buy their way out of their current predicament in the short term.

 

 

 

They can.

[Ilovetoon8788]

I agree. I think our fixtures this season has been brutal on Howe. We most likely may lose today but it Wil be due to fatigue and far too many games. I won't blame anyone. 

 

Brutal fixture list along with a bad transfer window we had, really hasn't helped us at all. 

[The College Dropout]

23/24 we lacked depth but we had quality. Which is why we bounced back the next season.

 

This year - we lack quality.

[HaydnNUFC]

12 minutes ago, alexf said:

 

For me this shows a classic case of fan's expectations rising too quickly off the back of some recent success. It's fine if you feel that way as it was always going to happen, but if Eddie's team had a more steady rise like getting conference league then Europa then Champions league I wonder if people would be still feeling the same way. 

 

It would have been a steady incline curve rather than the jagged up and down we have had season to season.

 

We arguably overachieved 22/23 in getting to CL and a cup final. Then we dropped off the following year because the squad couldn't handle all the extra games and the really tough draws in all cups but were unlucky not to secure European football by getting 7th. 

Last year we equal the league performance 22/23 pretty much but go one better than that season by winning the league cup final this time. 

 

This year is basically a repeat of 23/24 but with the context that we had an awful summer preparation with all the Isak shite, starting the season with no striker and then pretty much all our top targets going to rivals. Team who loses their best player and doesn't adequately replace him and has to play more games (16 more games than Man utd so far for example) dropping down the league positions is not a huge shock.

 

You couple that with again ridiculous cup draws meaning we never ever seem to get an easy game where we can rest players and ultimately we have lost too many key players for too long to injury. Tino, Schar and now Bruno spring to mind.

 

I just find people saying that being in knockout phase of CL, the later stages of FA cup, reaching semifinal of league cup but struggling in the league is somehow grounds for sacking?

 

Sure criticism is fine, being so poor in the league is naturally going to put pressure on you to improve. But apply some context to it and look at the underlying reasons. Eddie has earned the right to have a poor period of form and should be allowed time to correct it.

 

Small margins but if we had a few less brutal cup draws I think we then manage to avoid a few more injuries and even if we had just had Tino or Bruno a bit more I think we sit top 8 comfortably. How many games did Hall and Tino start together? Must be a handful at most.

I think being one of the highest net spenders in his tenure and dropping from 5th to a bottom 6 finish is pretty poor. Postecoglu did the same last season but also won a trophy and still lost his job.

 

We were 6-1 up against a poor side recently yet still didn’t rotate as effectively as he could’ve done.

 

Brutal cup draws? Yes in 2023-24’s case but this season? Other than Barcelona and PSG in the CL there wasn’t one side where we thought we’d be up against it. We’ve been at home throughout the entire League Cup run, playing Bradford, the worst Spurs side in my lifetime and Fulham. The FA Cup draws have been tougher, but regardless of Howe’s record against Bournemouth the 10th placed side in the league at home should be a fixture you’re looking to win. Unless you mean fixture congestion, in which case Howe’s had 2 cracks at a European campaign and come somewhat unstuck. Much less so 2023-24 because we were fantastic at home and still managed 85 goals in spite of the injuries that year.
 

But finishing in the bottom 6 as I said being my personal tether would be inexcusable.

 

 

Edited March 4 by HaydnNUFC

[alexf]

16 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

I think being one of the highest net spenders in his tenure and dropping from 5th to a bottom 6 finish is pretty poor. Postecoglu did the same last season but also won a trophy and still lost his job.

 

We were 6-1 up against a poor side recently yet still didn’t rotate as effectively as he could’ve done.

 

Brutal cup draws? Yes in 2023-24’s case but this season? Other than Barcelona and PSG in the CL there wasn’t one side where we thought we’d be up against it. We’ve been at home throughout the entire League Cup run, playing Bradford, the worst Spurs side in my lifetime and Fulham. The FA Cup draws have been tougher, but regardless of Howe’s record against Bournemouth the 10th placed side in the league at home should be a fixture you’re looking to win. Unless you mean fixture congestion, in which case Howe’s had 2 cracks at a European campaign and come somewhat unstuck. Much less so 2023-24 because we were fantastic at home and still managed 85 goals in spite of the injuries that year.
 

But finishing in the bottom 6 as I said being my personal tether would be inexcusable.

 

 

 

 

But he was the one that took us from 19th I think? when he took over to those top 4/5 finishes in the first place. If you want to attribute it to money spent then that s a different conversation. I would just add that Mike Ashley left us with an old depleted squad and it was always going to take a higher net spend to see us compete in anyway as we had next to no saleable assets. 

 

Regarding the tough draws. I would argue they are tough in the sense that apart from the Bradford game and Qarabag 2nd leg (grant you that one, thought it was mental we didn't play more young players etc). 

 

But every other game it would have been difficult not to go strong first 11. We have had 3 premier league teams in the fa cup, Arsenal have had Portsmouth, Wigan and now Mansfield in comparison.

 

CL we were ranked like the 4th hardest run of fixtures, Spurs had the 4th easiest by comparison. However felt we have done well in CL, just undone by not getting results away to Leverkusen and Marseille when we should have done and then could have avoided the Qarabag extra fixtures. 

 

I just think saying finishing bottom 6 after finishing top 5 being inexcusable is really harsh when there are plenty of excuses and explanations for the drop off. 

 

If it carried on into next year that would be a different conversation again I think but I just can't get into the realm that he should be sacked for this season given all the circumstances. 

 

 

Edited March 4 by alexf

[Zero]

39 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I’m more concerned about our owners being competent than if they think Howe is competent 

Fuck, so fucking true.

[HaydnNUFC]

7 minutes ago, alexf said:

 

But he was the one that took us from 19th when he took over those top 4/5 finishes in the first place. If you want to attribute it to money spent then that s a different conversation. I would just add that Mike Ashley left us with an old depleted squad and it was always going to take a higher net spend to see us compete in anyway as we had next to no saleable assets. 

 

Regarding the tough draws. I would argue they are tough in the sense that apart from the Bradford game and Qarabag 2nd leg (grant you that one, thought it was mental we didn't play more young players etc). 

 

But every other game it would have been difficult not to go strong first 11. We have had 3 premier league teams in the fa cup, Arsenal have had Portsmouth, Wigan and now Mansfield in comparison.

 

CL we were ranked like the 4th hardest run of fixtures, Spurs had the 4th easiest by comparison. However felt we have done well in CL, just undone by not getting results away to Leverkusen and Marseille when we should have done and then could have avoided the Qarabag extra fixtures. 

 

I just think saying finishing bottom 6 after finishing top 5 being inexcusable is really harsh when there are plenty of excuses and explanations for the drop off. 

 

If it carried on into next year that would be a different conversation again I think but I just can't get into the realm that he should be sacked for this season given all the circumstances. 

FWIW I want him to turn it around. Win tonight and the mood flips. C’est la vie in football. I just don’t see how a bottom 6 finish can be excused; we haven’t had an injury crisis like 2023-24 or Spurs last season (Postecoglu won a trophy too and the league campaign still cost him his job) Too many of the signings haven’t shown enough value for money and other than Miley not one player has improved. And it’ll feel like we’re in a cycle; no Europe and we’re class. Back in Europe and its laborious/shite footy until we don’t have to contend with the ‘perils of Europe’ as Howe put it recently. That can’t continue.

 

Yes that’s still a far cry from the Ashley years but they aren’t supposed to be the benchmark.

 

 

Edited March 4 by HaydnNUFC

[TRon]

42 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I’m more concerned about our owners being competent than if they think Howe is competent 

 

There's a good case to be made they are not so competent so I agree with you there. But I don't think there's much chance of us getting more competent owners who will invest as much money into trying to make us into a top club. More chance of an Ashley type of buyer coming in and using the club's assets to refinance.