Eddie Howe

[Frankly]

We needed fight on Saturday. He’d tried technique over the previous 2 months.

[The Prophet]

8 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

We bought Elanga. We play Murphy over Elanga. We played Burn over Hall because of height. We play Osula ahead of Woltemade. 

 

All of these can be justified by the result on Saturday, but it doesn't scream technique is what Eddie values most. 

 

We also bought and/or have regularly played Trippier, Thiaw, Schar, Botman, Hall, Bruno, Miley, Ramsey, Isak and Woltamade.

 

Don't get me wrong, Howe loves his physicality and was one of the trailblazers of the man-to-man duel-fest that we see in the PL today. It's also fair to say he clearly likes players with more athletic attributes out wide.

 

But to say we don't buy or regularly play "technical" players is absolute tosh. As ever, there's much more nuance to it than that.

[DC Magpie]

3 hours ago, KetsbaiaIsBald said:

People love to use the Alex Ferguson near sacking as an example of why you should stick with a manager.  Off the top of my head I cant think of many more that have gone on to success after having this dip and pressure.  Genuine question are there many other cases?  What comes to my mind is when teams stick in the summer it usually follows a sacking in the winter.  I think we should probably keep Howe but my main concerns is that if things do not go 100% at the start of next season we end up in a negative spin and we lose another season.  

 

 

 

 

This, in my view, is the worst case scenario (i.e, keeping him on through the summer, signing a bunch of players who run fast to fit his system (but not much else), and then a bad start to 26/27 and Eddie is out by Christmas). That sets us back more than a season I think.

 

Credit to Eddie, I thought the lineup had no chance of success (wrong again), but I still think now is the time to pivot. I don't think he can he build (in terms of quality depth) and manage a team that is suited to playing twice a week over the long term, as his style wears his favorites to the nub.

 

My view is that the long-term risks of going all-in on Eddie this offseason are too great after this season. Erect him a statue outside the park for all he's done for us, but we need fresh thinking and a new approach, and a new manager needs to be in place this summer to make the signing decisions to fit that approach.

[Nobody]

5 hours ago, Miggys First Goal said:

 

Does he mean odds are low? 

[Jesse Pinkman]

We can keep him another year but anything less than CL and he has to go. 

[The Prophet]

2 minutes ago, Jesse Pinkman said:

We can keep him another year but anything less than CL and he has to go. 

 

Nah.

[duo]

20 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Nah.

PIF may think differently 

[The Prophet]

5 minutes ago, duo said:

PIF may think differently 

 

They might. If that's the case we'll be changing managers on a regular basis.

[duo]

3 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

They might. If that's the case we'll be changing managers on a regular basis.

If what they spout is true and want us to be challenging by 2030 then CL is a minimum 

[TRon]

1 hour ago, The Prophet said:

 

We also bought and/or have regularly played Trippier, Thiaw, Schar, Botman, Hall, Bruno, Miley, Ramsey, Isak and Woltamade.

 

Don't get me wrong, Howe loves his physicality and was one of the trailblazers of the man-to-man duel-fest that we see in the PL today. It's also fair to say he clearly likes players with more athletic attributes out wide.

 

But to say we don't buy or regularly play "technical" players is absolute tosh. As ever, there's much more nuance to it than that.

 

It's not about what we've done in the past, it's about the direction we've been headed this season. 

 

That's not to say we can't pivot again, I'm just calling it on what we've done this season. 

[The Prophet]

9 minutes ago, duo said:

If what they spout is true and want us to be challenging by 2030 then CL is a minimum 

 

You're not going to regularly qualify for the Champions League with 7th/8th highest wage bill in the league. Even Chelsea and Spurs haven't been regular qualifiers in recent year.

[The Prophet]

8 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

It's not about what we've done in the past, it's about the direction we've been headed this season. 

 

That's not to say we can't pivot again, I'm just calling it on what we've done this season. 

 

That also applies to this season though.

[Weezertron]

I’ll settle for a fun team to watch. This past season has me watching baseball, that’s how shit it’s been. 

[Geordie_once_removed]

Overall I'm happy with the decision and I do think he can still bring us on. He's coming off his most challenging season since he left Bournemouth and they were relegated, but don't forget how he reacted to that. He identified weakness and went off and worked on them.

 

When he first arrived everyone thought we'd play nice football but be soft touches and concede loads of goals. But Howe had been off studying how to put together a tight unit of nasty bastards from the master of this style Simeone. He quickly turned us into perhaps the best defensive side in the League for the next year and a half to two years. We've lost that (big time) this year but I don't see why we can't get that back.

 

I'm not blind to our flaws and the need to evolve but I think Howe can do this and he has done this with us before. He was shafted by late business in the summer so he went straight into a season where for 2/3 of it we've been playing 2 games a week with no time to train. So ultimately he had too little time to prepare players and adapt tactics. Give him the summer and some timely signings and I think he'll address most of our key issues.*

 

* I reserve the right to fully go back on all of this should we boot it to the corner flag from our first kick off next year.

[DC Magpie]

1 minute ago, Geordie_once_removed said:

Overall I'm happy with the decision and I do think he can still bring us on. He's coming off his most challenging season since he left Bournemouth and they were relegated, but don't forget how he reacted to that. He identified weakness and went off and worked on them.

 

When he first arrived everyone thought we'd play nice football but be soft touches and concede loads of goals. But Howe had been off studying how to put together a tight unit of nasty bastards from the master of this style Simeone. He quickly turned us into perhaps the best defensive side in the League for the next year and a half to two years. We've lost that (big time) this year but I don't see why we can't get that back.

 

I'm not blind to our flaws and the need to evolve but I think Howe can do this and he has done this with us before. He was shafted by late business in the summer so he went straight into a season where for 2/3 of it we've been playing 2 games a week with no time to train. So ultimately he had too little time to prepare players and adapt tactics. Give him the summer and some timely signings and I think he'll address most of our key issues.*

 

* I reserve the right to fully go back on all of this should we boot it to the corner flag from our first kick off next year.

 

Cheers. Fair points all, and I want what is best for the club above all else. But I will point out that after three full weeks of (mostly) uninterrupted training time, we came out looking the same tactically, but as flat and boring and predictable as we've ever looked in my recent memory, putting together the most pathetic string of performances (and results) in quite some time. Playing in Europe every year should be the goal (if not expectation just yet), and if Eddie can't adapt to managing to that workload and lack of training, we ought to find one who can.

[NUFC91]

25 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

You're not going to regularly qualify for the Champions League with 7th/8th highest wage bill in the league. Even Chelsea and Spurs haven't been regular qualifiers in recent year.

 

People keep saying this but in the past 4 seasons it looks like us and Villa will qualify twice so it shouldn't be written off even if it is unlikely.

 

I think Europa league has to be achieved next year given the likes of Brighton Forest and probably Bournemouth will qualify this year.

 

 

[Andy84]

I’ve been as frustrated and low about him now as much as any point. But I’m 100% convinced this is the right call 

[Wilson]

42 minutes ago, duo said:

If what they spout is true and want us to be challenging by 2030 then CL is a minimum 

 

Then they have to realise they can't leave the club in no mans land while they take months to make important decisions. 

[The Prophet]

3 minutes ago, NUFC91 said:

 

People keep saying this but in the past 4 seasons it looks like us and Villa will qualify twice so it shouldn't be written off even if it is unlikely.

 

I think Europa league has to be achieved next year given the likes of Brighton Forest and probably Bournemouth will qualify this year.

 

 

 

I'm not saying it can't be done, but qualifying consistently is a tough ask unless you're wage bill is competitive. It certainly can't be the expectation.

 

If we finish 6th or win a trophy for example, it'd be brutal to bin him.

[Geordie_once_removed]

24 minutes ago, DC Magpie said:

 

Cheers. Fair points all, and I want what is best for the club above all else. But I will point out that after three full weeks of (mostly) uninterrupted training time, we came out looking the same tactically, but as flat and boring and predictable as we've ever looked in my recent memory, putting together the most pathetic string of performances (and results) in quite some time. Playing in Europe every year should be the goal (if not expectation just yet), and if Eddie can't adapt to managing to that workload and lack of training, we ought to find one who can.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you said and I was as close to thinking he wasn't up to it as I have ever been these past few weeks. He has to adapt his style, as both seasons where we have played in the Champions League have shown it isn't sustainable. I still feel there is just enough mitigating factors, one of which could be a bit of burn out for him and the players meaning new tactics just weren't sticking and energy levels were well down, for him to still warrant my faith.

[NUFC91]

8 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

I'm not saying it can't be done, but qualifying consistently is a tough ask unless you're wage bill is competitive. It certainly can't be the expectation.

 

If we finish 6th or win a trophy for example, it'd be brutal to bin him.

 

Oh absolutely, any trophy has to deemed as biggest success and trumps anything for me, one thing I love about Howe id he takes the cups serious.

 

I think Europa league should be achievable and it's crucial we play Europe again, ideally Europa league over conference.

 

 

[Milburn]

5 hours ago, Holmesy said:

Can’t think of any either. And I think it usually comes down to a number of factors - things get stale, players get bored/resentful, the same voices don’t carry the same weight, tactics get found out, players heads get turned, for certain foreign players, the lure of home becomes greater etc.

It’s why sentiment like credit is the bank is so risky and why ruthlessness is so rife in football. 

All we can hope is that Eddie can buck the trend but if those factors mentioned have contributed to our demise, rather than the mitigating factors that many on here cite, it’s a very difficult ship to turn around. 

Exactly. And that’s why these cycles are so hard to reverse once they set in. It’s not just form, it’s the message, the energy, the belief, all starting to fade at the same time.

 

That’s also why “credit in the bank” is such a dangerous argument. It doesn’t really apply when the underlying trend is going the wrong way.

 

You can hope he turns it around, but history suggests that once it gets to this point, it’s incredibly difficult to pull it back. If you look at Howe’s time at Bournemouth, he didn’t manage to turn it around there once things started to slide either.

 

In a somewhat similar position are Liverpool, who also look set to stick with Arne Slot. I’m not seeing any real signs that either Newcastle or Liverpool are about to reverse that trend under their current managers. It wouldn’t surprise me if both clubs quickly end up regretting those decisions.

 

 

Edited May 4 by Milburn

[Mattoon]

2 minutes ago, Milburn said:

Exactly. And that’s why these cycles are so hard to reverse once they set in. It’s not just form, it’s the message, the energy, the belief, all starting to fade at the same time.

 

That’s also why “credit in the bank” is such a dangerous argument. It doesn’t really apply when the underlying trend is going the wrong way.

 

You can hope he turns it around, but history suggests that once it gets to this point, it’s incredibly difficult to pull it back. If you look at Howe’s time at Bournemouth, he didn’t manage to turn it around there once things started to slide either.

 

In a somewhat similar position are Liverpool, who also look set to stick with Arne Slot. I’m not seeing any real signs that either Newcastle or Liverpool are about to reverse that trend under their current managers. It wouldn’t surprise me if both clubs quickly end up regretting those decisions.

 

 

 

Liverpool haven't had 4 transfer windows without any movement though. We have gone stale for different reasons to Slopp. Move on the bad eggs, poor buys and the aging players and instill some energy into fresh faces and committed professionals and Howe absolutely can turn it around, will he? Only time will tell.

[nufcjb]

Next season, he has to win both derby matches, surely?

[Chris_R]

1 hour ago, duo said:

PIF may think differently 

 

Unless we have a top 4 wage budget, top 4 training facilities and top 4 transfer budget, then expecting top 4 finishes every year is not realistic.

 

Of course they have a right to be unrealistic - they own the club. But it doesn't feel like a realistic or fair expectation at this stage.