Eddie Howe

[Interpolic]

21 minutes ago, madras said:

Some might think we are lucky not to be dragged into a relegation battle even before the injuries etc.

 

There was definitely a period pre-Everton away when the results and performances we were getting were amazing given what Howe had to work with.

[Dr Venkman]

21 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

There shouldn’t be any battle about influence. Not sure there is TBH. 
 

Howe is a modern manager and we’re a modern club now. I believe that Howe is sensible enough to know the role of a manager. 

He’s a head coach who repeatedly refers to himself as the manager.

[80]

3 minutes ago, Bimpy474 said:

You don't bin a manager as soon as he and his team go through a bad spell. Imo Eddie has earnt the right to pick results back up.

 

And while those results and performances in the main have been disappointing (at home mostly), I think we've only lost to Man City and Arsenal in the last eight games, so it's not a collapse in form.

I would disagree on that bit as I think it's a mistake to see results and form as the same thing. Otherwise we really were a wonderful operation in Pardew's 5th placed season, and I thought it was obvious we were just a freak outfit at the time.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

3 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said:

He’s a head coach who repeatedly refers to himself as the manager.

And? 

[Interpolic]

3 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

I remember under Rafa, I just trusted absolutely in everything he did because he consistently made silk purses out of piles of shit and seemed to have a tactical answer for everything.

 

Different situations, players, budgets etc but Rafa went long spells where results were awful.  In 18/19 we didn't win until November, which was our 10th match of the season.

 

Howe has better players but far less of them available.  And results have never been as bad as that.  AND he'd already had us in CL-form for almost 2 seasons, before this difficult spell.

 

I've every faith he'll turn it around personally, the bloke just needs a break atm and I'm sure we'll be flying again before too long.

[Orphanage]

Some managers are just stubborn . Sir Bobby Robson stuck with Hately upfront at the World Cup until his own players questionned how the team was set up . In came Beardsley and Lineker . Plus ca change ... 

Was surprised Eddie didnt go 5 3 2 against Arsenal , keeping Burn in as a ch mightve helped us defend better against their set pieces and maybe we wouldve been a better counter attacking force . Smelt of Eddie saying " There told you so " ( re Tino and Burn ) . If all hes got is the one idea of 4 3 3 regardless of personnel and take that one idea and beat it to death then hes never going to progress and neither will we

[Dr Venkman]

8 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

And? 

And I love him.

[KaKa]

14 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

You could be right. I suppose what this conversation confirms is that there's a definite loss of confidence in Eddie from me, given some of the things we've witnessed this season. I remember under Rafa, I just trusted absolutely in everything he did because he consistently made silk purses out of piles of shit and seemed to have a tactical answer for everything. Last season I felt the same about Eddie, but that confidence has definitely eroded a bit. Hopefully it comes back next season.

 

Rafa by nature is a more structured, rigid and defensive minded manager, which is an approach that likely would indeed have worked better to grind out results with lesser quality players available.

 

Howe more wants to pressure the opposition and take things to them by nature, and is seemingly looking for solutions to the current situation that still incorporates some of that, rather than consolidating completely. 

 

Maybe Howe eventually incorporates more of a defensive setup during these kind of moments or comes up with some other approach, as he does continuously look to grow, I'm just fine with letting him work through it.

 

 

[timeEd32]

There’s a lot of things that bother me about this whole discussion but another is the fact that this will all be resolved soon enough. 
 

Eddie is not going to put 10 men behind the ball to eke out results in the name of job security. We will either get back to our best or some of you will be proven right that he’s been found out, hit a ceiling, whatever. If that’s the case he’ll be out of a job sometime between November and May of next year. 
 

So, again, patience.

[HaydnNUFC]

29 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

 

Different situations, players, budgets etc but Rafa went long spells where results were awful.  In 18/19 we didn't win until November, which was our 10th match of the season.

 

Howe has better players but far less of them available.  And results have never been as bad as that.  AND he'd already had us in CL-form for almost 2 seasons, before this difficult spell.

 

I've every faith he'll turn it around personally, the bloke just needs a break atm and I'm sure we'll be flying again before too long.

 

2017-18 we went on a run of 4 wins in 24 and didn't win a home league match for almost 4 months. Some shocking performances and results in that run as well, 0-3 at home to Watford, the performance in losing 0-1 at home to Allardyce's Everton, 0-0 at home to Brighton. 

 

2018-19 we didn't win until November as you say, didn't win in the first 10 games and lost every home match in that 10. Likewise some really grim afternoons before Christmas that season as well.

 

It hasn't got as bad as that yet but the showing on Saturday, away at Spurs, against Forest at home, away at Luton have run some of the awful afternoons 5-6 years ago in isolation close. But I have faith that Howe will turn it around just as I had in Benitez having it under control back then.

 

I do think though that Howe is stubbornly married to this current system. Admirable in a way but he's on the record in his press conference yesterday saying the system we play is not the issue. If the current players aren't good enough to play the system then surely the system needs tweaking or altered until the players that are good enough come back? Every single side we've played since we beat Man Utd in December have played through us at will. It's been my only serious, level headed worry about Howe this season.

 

 

Edited February 27 by HaydnNUFC

[The College Dropout]

8th

4th

4th (CL winners?)

2nd

1st

 

Probably gave Klopp the credit to get away with 1 bad season (which he deserves criticism for)

 

If people think Howe's 4th finish buys him the credit to finish 9th the next season, that's fair enough.

 

[80]

7 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

I do think though that Howe is stubbornly married to this current system. Admirable in a way but he's on the record in his press conference yesterday saying the system we play is not the issue. If the current players aren't good enough to play the system then surely the system needs tweaking or altered until the players that are good enough come back? Every single side we've played since we beat Man Utd in December have played through us at will. It's been my only serious, level headed worry about Howe this season.

 

That's the thing - imagine we put November 2021 Eddie in a time machine and brought him to now, and he was preparing his slide deck for his interview, giving detailed presentations on each individual player in the way that so impressed Yasir Al-Rumayyan.

 

Do we think he'd propose implementing the system and approach we have now, and damn the consequences? I don't. So I think there's been a shift in emphasis from tailoring around the players we have to making them fit what he thinks is the best tactic, without due respect to whether they're capable of it.

 

I give Howe a lot of leeway with his press conferences. He's very secretive about methods and thoughts, and will straight lie about something if he thinks it's necessary, which is fine. Bearing that in mind therefore, he does concern me sometimes in the way he analyses our match performances, which pretty much boil down to "the players worked very hard and stuck to the plan to fight hard, which was good", or "the players didn't/couldn't work hard enough and didn't defend hard enough, which was bad".

 

As I say, I appreciate he is probably holding back more developed thoughts and doesn't just say these same things to the players, but sometimes he does a very good acting performance of actually thinking this way. It does bother me because there definitely is more to football than being the hardest runner, and I don't think that's a secret he needs to keep.

[timeEd32]

22 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

8th

4th

4th (CL winners?)

2nd

1st

 

Probably gave Klopp the credit to get away with 1 bad season (which he deserves criticism for)

 

If people think Howe's 4th finish buys him the credit to finish 9th the next season, that's fair enough.

 

 

Given the circumstances I have no reservations giving the most promising manager we've had in two decades a pass this season whether we finish 9th, 10th, 11th, whatever.

[Interpolic]

When people talk about changing system, they basically mean 5ATB don't they?  We don't have 2 fit strikers and have already tried 4231 with Bruno as the AM.  I'm not sure 5ATB from the start is the answer either tbh.

[The College Dropout]

6 minutes ago, 80 said:

That's the thing - imagine we put November 2021 Eddie in a time machine and brought him to now, and he was preparing his slide deck for his interview, giving detailed presentations on each individual player in the way that so impressed Yasir Al-Rumayyan.

 

Do we think he'd propose implementing the system and approach we have now, and damn the consequences? I don't. So I think there's been a shift in emphasis from tailoring around the players we have to making them fit what he thinks is the best tactic, without due respect to whether they're capable of it.

 

I give Howe a lot of leeway with his press conferences. He's very secretive about methods and thoughts, and will straight lie about something if he thinks it's necessary, which is fine. Bearing that in mind therefore, he does concern me sometimes in the way he analyses our match performances, which pretty much boil down to "the players worked very hard and stuck to the plan to fight hard, which was good", or "the players didn't/couldn't work hard enough and didn't defend hard enough, which was bad".

 

As I say, I appreciate he is probably holding back more developed thoughts and doesn't just say these same things to the players, but sometimes he does a very good acting performance of actually thinking this way. It does bother me because there definitely is more to football than being the hardest runner, and I don't think that's a secret he needs to keep.

He's an absolute liar in press conferences. Doesn't say anything useful 95% of the time. As an FPL player i just ignore what he says.

[Big Jow]

2 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

It all sounds so simple.

 

So when Mourinho was stinking at Spurs why didn't he just change setting? 

 

When Conte was stinking at Spurs why couldn't he just change setting?

 

These are the elite managers we should be after right? Why couldn't they both just figure it out, even without an injury crisis?

 

 

 

Because both Mourinho and Conte are stubborn managers, which ultimately led to their sacking.

 

Really weird example to use.

[Shearergol]

5 hours ago, Smal said:

[HaydnNUFC]

Just now, Interpolic said:

When people talk about changing system, they basically mean 5ATB don't they?  We don't have 2 fit strikers and have already tried 4231 with Bruno as the AM.  I'm not sure 5ATB from the start is the answer either tbh.

 

In games like Saturday, for me aye. A 5-4-1/5-2-3. It's negative but it won't get walked through as much the current system does with the current players available. He hasn't been averse to going to that either, Chelsea away in 21-22 when we were robbed, when we've went to it in games this season. Probably wouldn't do it at home, mind. Then again, we haven't beat a side that hasn't gone down to 10 men at home for almost 3 months.

 

Even still, he almost left it too late at Villa; the change wasn't going to be made until their 2nd goal was marginally disallowed. It was clear as day that Livramento had to come on to shut down Bailey, that 2nd Villa goal stands and I'm not sure we win that match.

[TRon]

35 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

8th

4th

4th (CL winners?)

2nd

1st

 

Probably gave Klopp the credit to get away with 1 bad season (which he deserves criticism for)

 

If people think Howe's 4th finish buys him the credit to finish 9th the next season, that's fair enough.

 

 

 

It does. He'll be judged on next season when we have a squad fit for purpose. Or at least I hope we have a squad fit for purpose, because we played most of this season with one that wasn't.

[80]

1 hour ago, Interpolic said:

When people talk about changing system, they basically mean 5ATB don't they?  We don't have 2 fit strikers and have already tried 4231 with Bruno as the AM.  I'm not sure 5ATB from the start is the answer either tbh.

Partially, although I think it broadens out to not basing our approach on a successful aggressive press. Plus how much emphasis is placed upon dominating every opponent from the first minute. There's something to be said for flooding and stifling an opponent until they get frustrated, exhausted and make mistakes, sometimes. But we've never done that under Eddie, even when there have been opportunities (Liverpool at home in 22/23 is my standard example of this).

 

 

Edited February 27 by 80

[The College Dropout]

Out out possession in a well-coached mid to low block - I love a 442.

[Big Jow]

For me it’s almost impossible to make a determination on whether I would replace Howe in the summer as there is too many jigsaw pieces missing, which I will never know.

 

I know he isn’t where I’d like him to be tactically during this difficult season. I know I disagree with some of his decision making and approaches and I firmly believe we are out of cups and further down the table than we could be, even with the significant issues. Some of which I believe are his responsibility or he has been a factor in.

 

However, all of things I don’t know is a large deciding factor, for example:

 

1. Does Howe have a fetish for expensive and limited British/PL players? Is he responsible for trying to push through deals for Phillips and McTominay?

2. Is this “breakdown of trust” with Ashworth real and if so, who is to blame and why?

3. What are his long term plans with signings (if he is even responsible for the decision)

4. Why is he appearing stubborn in his approach and what is he expecting to achieve from it?

5. Have previously positive relationships with players like Almiron changed, leading to a lack of form, was the attempted sale Howe or club led?

 

It’s not a straightforward decision with some idiot like Bruce, who you know his glaring limitations but also know he’d be making ridiculously shite decisions in the background. 

 

As far as I see it we have an exceptional talent who has limitations. He did sensational things with Bournemouth and us in his first season and a half. However, he also got relegated with Bournemouth due to his limitations. Will we progress further from here or stall/go backwards? The answer to that is in the 5 questions above.

 

If I knew the answers to the above I’d be willing to give a firm opinion on it, but we’ll likely never know. I disagree with some who have posted who feel you have to be Howe in or Howe out, it’s not as black and white as that.

[Holmesy]

26 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

When people talk about changing system, they basically mean 5ATB don't they?  We don't have 2 fit strikers and have already tried 4231 with Bruno as the AM.  I'm not sure 5ATB from the start is the answer either tbh.

Not necessarily although i'd like to see it. I just think with the pace of Almiron and Gordon, the clinical nature of Isak and the precision of Bruno and Tripper, we have the perfect set-up to hit teams on the counter. So maybe play deeper, press when the opposition cross the halfway line and capitalise on the space in behind. Basically exactly what some teams have done to us. If that's a deeper 4-3-3, fine. And not all the time, just as a plan B to see out games or against teams who are shitting on us - Arsenal, Dortmund, Forest etc.

 

 

Edited February 27 by Holmesy

[Big Jow]

2 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Not necessarily although i'd like to see it. I just think with the pace of Almiron and Gordon, the clinical nature of Isak and the precision of Bruno and Tripper, we have the perfect set-up to hit teams on the counter. So maybe play deeper, press when the opposition cross the halfway line and capitalise on the space in behind. Basically exactly what some teams have done to us. If that's a deeper 4-3-3, fine. And not all the time, just as a plan B to see out games or against teams who are shitting on us - Arsenal, Dortmund, Forest etc.

 

 

 

 

That’s exactly how I would play.

 

I assumed initially this is what Howe was trying to do but it’s not possible in this set up because we clear the ball to Isak and the closest player to him is 40 yards away.

[Mills and Boon]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

8th

4th

4th (CL winners?)

2nd

1st

 

Probably gave Klopp the credit to get away with 1 bad season (which he deserves criticism for)

 

If people think Howe's 4th finish buys him the credit to finish 9th the next season, that's fair enough.

 

 

We're the ninth highest payers in terms of salary and league position usually has a strong correlation with that. We overachieved last season, ninth place should be our expectation (not aim) so with that and the injuries, suspensions, extra games all taken into consideration nobody should be disappointed if we finish top half as we'd be par for the course despite those adversities.

 

But we're all human so inevitably there'll still be disappointment, which is fair enough. There's a lot of knee jerk overreaction going around though, which isn't great