Eddie Howe

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Menace said:

Most of the signings that have been bought in, have been bought in cause they play into Howe's system. What is the point of sacking him when all these players have been bought specifically to fit his system?

I agree with this. We’ve double downed on Howeball.  Any pivot away will need an overhaul of the squad. 

[Yorkie]

I still don't really see any fundamental flaws in his managerial ability that warrants him any serious flak. No compelling evidence whatsoever to suggest we haven't got one of the best managers in the league, who we'd do incredibly well to improve upon. 

 

Results have been very mixed recently but I just can't look beyond the duff hand he's had with squad availability, with all the direct and indirect impacts that's had. From the massive direct impacts of the drop-off in goalkeeper quality, to the indirect impact of confidence being lost.

 

I think it's fair to conclude that there's a method in existence which results in a better return than 19 goals conceded in seven games, but I can't believe that last season's GC column was a fluke - or even the spell in Autumn when were conceding 0.5 per game. 

[Joe1984]

11 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Winning trophies, challenging for league titles and competing in the latter stages of the CL. 
 

Same as everyone else. 

Steve Mclaren has won the Dutch league and a League Cup with Middlesborough.

 

Do you rate him better than Howe?

[ponsaelius]

Said it at the time but I honestly feel we'll look back on last season (+ PSG at home as a kind of epilogue) as the apogee of this entire ownership era. Such amazing momentum and positive feeling around the club, a manager squeezing everything out of his resources, squad full of likeable hardworking players and local lads punching well above their weight. Home and away atmospheres were both consistently fun. Basically a perfect storm before everything changes forever.

 

It's already gone very sour with the raised expectations this year and changing fan dynamics. Fans actively turning on the manager who led success, the same players who punched well above their weight last year being absolutely slaughtered now. The ticketing situation has also been a clear sign of what's to come. I don't even completely disagree with a lot of what's been said, I'm liable to it myself, but it's just more than a bit sad tbh. 

 

The club is going to get there eventually and be the successful club people want it to be, but with FFP its going to be a really long slog and by the end of it things will be unrecognisable. There's going to be raised ticket prices, fundamental changes to the matchday experience, sacrificial sales of key players, years more of imperfect players in the lineup and also many more painful transitional results like today. I do think all need to take a step back at times and come to terms with this reality. I've found the entire atmosphere surrounding this season a bit miserable tbh and found myself pulling away because of it 

[TheBrownBottle]

3 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Next season we have to reset either we continue to back him fully or we get rid in the summer. 
 

Let’s not dither and half back him to get rid in November. I think we need to take a step back, fully back him in the summer and set the targets and let him see our next season. If he doesn’t achieve we make a change next summer. 

Not sure, I still think that depends.  If the club are sat lower mid-table in November I’d be surprised if the trigger isn’t about to be pulled.  It would be three years into the ‘five year’ or ‘ten year’ plan and we wouldn’t be that much further ahead than we were when the takeover occurred - and the club doesn’t grow any further from mid-table.  I know plenty would give Howe much, much longer - but the FFP restrictions would mean that the club surely couldn’t, it would be gambling at that point.  I honestly don’t see how revenue increases much if that’s the situation next season - and tbh, I’ve seen a few on here talking about it ‘not mattering’ if we finish bottom half this season.  Every PL placing is worth c.£2.5m - I wonder if the board share this view, as we’re likely already close to the FFP limit.  A bottom half finish could see us up for a points docking. 

[huss9]

1 minute ago, ponsaelius said:

Said it at the time but I honestly feel we'll look back on last season (+ PSG at home as a kind of epilogue) as the apogee of this entire ownership era. Such amazing momentum and positive feeling around the club, a manager squeezing everything out of his resources, squad full of likeable hardworking players and local lads punching well above their weight. Home and away atmospheres were both consistently fun. Basically a perfect storm before everything changes forever.

 

It's already gone very sour with the raised expectations this year and changing fan dynamics. Fans actively turning on the manager who led success, the same players who punched well above their weight last year being absolutely slaughtered now. The ticketing situation has also been a clear sign of what's to come. I don't even completely disagree with a lot of what's been said, I'm liable to it myself, but it's just more than a bit sad tbh. 

 

The club is going to get there eventually and be the successful club people want it to be, but with FFP its going to be a really long slog and by the end of it things will be unrecognisable. There's going to be raised ticket prices, fundamental changes to the matchday experience, sacrificial sales of key players, years more of imperfect players in the lineup and also many more painful transitional results like today. I do think all need to take a step back at times and come to terms with this reality. I've found the entire atmosphere surrounding this season a bit miserable tbh and found myself pulling away because of it 

dont think the footballing gods of the premier league will ever let us.

[Vinny Green Balls]

19 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Yeh a blip to fall from the CL To maybe the Conference League. You don’t spend £60m on a midfielder and £70m on fullbacks to not compete in Europe the following year at all.  
 

He ended with the goal of qualifying for Europe in 23/24. Therefore falling short would be considered a failure. 

I am sure that they are considering the extenuating circumstances (Tonali, injuries) as well. And they may well weigh exceeding expectations in 22/23 against falling short of them this season. As they expressed concerns about the CL year last year, it’s likely a much safer bet to assume that they will give him some games next season if we finish 10th.
 

Once again, I think you might be confusing your expectations  with what their’s may be. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, huss9 said:

dont think the footballing gods of the premier league will ever let us.

They definitely won’t - the idea that we’ll be able to slowly transition isn’t going to happen.  We’re close to the practical income limits of what can be achieved by a club of our size without some serious overachievement on the pitch or a radical change (ie a great big new stadium).  The adidas deal is a five year deal; the shirt sponsorship is sorted; there’s a few other avenues to explore but ultimately our income is roughly half Spurs’s income.  

[r0cafella]

10 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Not sure, I still think that depends.  If the club are sat lower mid-table in November I’d be surprised if the trigger isn’t about to be pulled.  It would be three years into the ‘five year’ or ‘ten year’ plan and we wouldn’t be that much further ahead than we were when the takeover occurred - and the club doesn’t grow any further from mid-table.  I know plenty would give Howe much, much longer - but the FFP restrictions would mean that the club surely couldn’t, it would be gambling at that point.  I honestly don’t see how revenue increases much if that’s the situation next season - and tbh, I’ve seen a few on here talking about it ‘not mattering’ if we finish bottom half this season.  Every PL placing is worth c.£2.5m - I wonder if the board share this view, as we’re likely already close to the FFP limit.  A bottom half finish could see us up for a points docking. 

And it would be a mistake, in concerned by what’s taking place to be frank. With Ashworth walking off in really concerned by any succession planning. Eddie clearly has a very clear way of how he wants to play and you either back him all the way or you let him go. 
 

One of the biggest issues with FFP Is you simply can’t make wholesale changes to playing style, you need that continuity which is why a sporting director who is place and in control of all these appointments must be there for the long haul. 
 

This season has really shown the weakness of some of our squad and in order to plug those gaps we need a lot of investment. 
 

Also the ownership have to shoulder responsibility by raising expectations and being SLOW. 

 

NO new training ground updates for how long?

No updates regarding expanding the stadium /building a new one. 
Poor commercial performance (no stadium sponsor, no training ground sponsor, no training kit sponsor) 

 

we knew FFP was an issue but we’ve done very little to mitigate it, I know what the stated aims are (not sure I believe them) but I don’t know how they intend to achieve them. 

 

As fans all we can hope is all parties have learnt a lot this season and we to again next season with some lessons in our belt are a bit more savvy. 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

 

Also the ownership have to shoulder responsibility by raising expectations and being SLOW. 

 

NO new training ground updates for how long?

No updates regarding expanding the stadium /building a new one. 
Poor commercial performance (no stadium sponsor, no training ground sponsor, no training kit sponsor) 

 

we knew FFP was an issue but we’ve done very little to mitigate it, I know what the stated aims are (not sure I believe them) but I don’t know how they intend to achieve them. 

 

As fans all we can hope is all parties have learnt a lot this season and we to again next season with some lessons in our belt are a bit more savvy. 

I’m with you 100% on this.  The credit they’ve been given for the lowest-hanging of fruit is amazing.  I think plenty got excited because it looks impressive to talk about increases in commercials from a % point of view, rather than the obvious that we’re now on a par with Everton.

 

I don’t see how they get close to their stated aims either - and I’m also not sure I completely buy them anymore.  I don’t see how we get to Staveley’s boasts under the present circumstances - they look like an albatross around the neck at the moment.  I really thought that they’d have dynamic plans coming out of their jacksies - the takeover took a year and a half to go through, for starters - but it’s all very, very quiet.  At present, it looks like a paint job with slightly higher than would be expected sponsorships for a reasonably competently run NUFC.  I know we’ve made a Faustian pact in terms of who the ultimate owners are; but Faustus also didn’t get what Mephistopheles was selling him …

[mighty__mag]

Eddie was fairly honest in his post match presser, I could see he wasn't happy, he didn't really hide from any of the questions, also when asked about the positives, he went on to mention Joe Willock and Isak getting minutes were the only real positives. For me it seemed like the players have let him down, a total lethargic first half, he mentioned they'd worked on defending set pieces all week, only for everyone to forget when it matters. 

 

Actually felt sorry for him, trusting he will have put together a strategy, that many could not put into action.

 

 

[Conjo]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

I agree with this. We’ve double downed on Howeball.  Any pivot away will need an overhaul of the squad. 

 

When do you think we doubled down on Howeball? All our major signings bar Gordon are someone I'd not typically class as a high intensity/pressing type of player.

[TheBrownBottle]

24 minutes ago, mighty__mag said:

Eddie was fairly honest in his post match presser, I could see he wasn't happy, he didn't really hide from any of the questions, also when asked about the positives, he went on to mention Joe Willock and Isak getting minutes were the only real positives. For me it seemed like the players have let him down, a total lethargic first half, he mentioned they'd worked on defending set pieces all week, only for everyone to forget when it matters. 

 

Actually felt sorry for him, trusting he will have put together a strategy, that many could not put into action.

 

 

He’d be right to be angry - they did let him down.  It’s players, not fans, who get managers the sack, ultimately.  

[80]

3 hours ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

Dude, you have zero concept of human psychology. I was just in a co-director situation for a film  and it was an utter disaster. And given the egos of most directors, very few would ever even agree to it for obvious reasons. Obviously different that your suggestion of rotation, but good luck on getting anyone to buy into that 

 

it’s a complete non starter because you will never get two elite managers agreeing to that. For you to stick with it is just utterly daft. And I assume that you Are better than such a daft suggestion. 
 

 

 

 

 

I agree it's weird and unworkable, but in fairness to @Dr Jinx, people had very similar reactions to the idea of directors of football sitting above/alongside managers 30 years ago, and now they're de rigueur among the thinking classes.

[80]

Regarding the match... It was shit but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Which seems ironic given the time I'm writing this at.

 

It went pretty much as expected. To me this isn't the match to get upset with Howe over. Hopefully we can start to turn ourselves around against teams where we aren't so comprehensively outgunned.

 

I do wonder if there's just a mismatch between the psychology of our players and Eddie's belief in attempting to dominate and win every single match. That it works when they're aligned, but when the players simply don't believe it themselves, our entire gameplan just dissolves because they don't have any instructions that don't involve being first to every 50/50.

 

Oh, and re: Longstaff, hopefully talk about him being a future captain of ours is put to bed in concrete boots. It's not in his make-up.

[timeEd32]

2 hours ago, Gottlob said:

Our bad run of form started with a couple of whoopings against Everton and Tottenham in which Joelinton played the full ninety minutes. He also featured against Nottingham Forest and played for most of the defeat against Liverpool. Discounting the Forest game, we let in 11 goals over those 3 matches.

 

Going back 12 games to the Everton match, we sit 17th in the form table with 11 points from 12 matches and a league-leading 31 goals against. That isn't down to any one player or any one player's absence. It's a collective failure born of an unprecedented injury crisis, fatigue, a loss of form and the ensuing loss of confidence, and our inability so far to mitigate any of those things, change things up or find real room for improvement. Howe ultimately bears responsibility for how easy we've been to play against and for our inability to keep the football.

I agree it’s not down to one thing and I think Howe would be the first to admit he bears ultimate responsibility.

 

However, there is one player whose absence coincides perfectly with the collapse of our defensive form beginning at Everton. I think losing Pope at the exact same time the fixtures became too much with our injury situation was the killer one-two punch. And then energy levels pick up a bit, but we lose all athleticism in the midfield.

[Kanji]

What’s the record of a club who’ve lost their #1 keeper? And what’s that record when that team loses 10+ first team players? What’s also that team’s record when they lose the actual engine to their game plan?

[KaKa]

7 hours ago, Menace said:

Getting tired of people calling fellow fans entitled for witnessing shite.

 

That performance was horrific. The midfield was just getting ran through and our players immediately looked lethargic from the start of the game.

 

Any criticism of Howe and it's automatically "entitled Saudi regime fans" or "Eddie deserves better" it's fucking boring man.

 

 

 

 

I hope they sack him tomorrow.

 

Let's see what genius manager will come in and have the current available players playing any better and beating everyone.

 

Can't wait.

[Kanji]

Fuck off. Stop calling for change any minute we do not do well always. Maybe Arsenal should have sacked Arteta for missing champions league?

[KaKa]

5 hours ago, Yorkie said:

I still don't really see any fundamental flaws in his managerial ability that warrants him any serious flak. No compelling evidence whatsoever to suggest we haven't got one of the best managers in the league, who we'd do incredibly well to improve upon. 

 

Results have been very mixed recently but I just can't look beyond the duff hand he's had with squad availability, with all the direct and indirect impacts that's had. From the massive direct impacts of the drop-off in goalkeeper quality, to the indirect impact of confidence being lost.

 

I think it's fair to conclude that there's a method in existence which results in a better return than 19 goals conceded in seven games, but I can't believe that last season's GC column was a fluke - or even the spell in Autumn when were conceding 0.5 per game. 

 

Stop talking so much sense, boot licker!

[KaKa]

6 minutes ago, Kanji said:

Fuck off. Stop calling for change any minute we do not do well always. Maybe Arsenal should have sacked Arteta for missing champions league?

 

Think that one went over your head pal.

[Kanji]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

Think that one went over your head pal.

Not the time to be sarcastic. But I know you’re one who supports Howe mate.  My comment wasn’t meant for you bro. 

[Gallowgate Toon]

This 'signing players for Eddie's system' stuff is a load of bollocks, right?

 

We've signed some absolute class. Trippier, Bruno, Isak, Tonali etc. and others aren't one dimensional footballers. The more future signings like Tino and Hall are definitely technical players as well.

 

Most of the hard-working, physical but lacking in technique ones were, shock horror, here when we were a relegation-battling side.

[KaKa]

5 hours ago, ponsaelius said:

Said it at the time but I honestly feel we'll look back on last season (+ PSG at home as a kind of epilogue) as the apogee of this entire ownership era. Such amazing momentum and positive feeling around the club, a manager squeezing everything out of his resources, squad full of likeable hardworking players and local lads punching well above their weight. Home and away atmospheres were both consistently fun. Basically a perfect storm before everything changes forever.

 

It's already gone very sour with the raised expectations this year and changing fan dynamics. Fans actively turning on the manager who led success, the same players who punched well above their weight last year being absolutely slaughtered now. The ticketing situation has also been a clear sign of what's to come. I don't even completely disagree with a lot of what's been said, I'm liable to it myself, but it's just more than a bit sad tbh. 

 

The club is going to get there eventually and be the successful club people want it to be, but with FFP its going to be a really long slog and by the end of it things will be unrecognisable. There's going to be raised ticket prices, fundamental changes to the matchday experience, sacrificial sales of key players, years more of imperfect players in the lineup and also many more painful transitional results like today. I do think all need to take a step back at times and come to terms with this reality. I've found the entire atmosphere surrounding this season a bit miserable tbh and found myself pulling away because of it 

 

With the way FFP has been setup this was always going to be a project. And the owners told us this. But still a different narrative exists about so called expectations.

 

I think we have the ideal manager for a project too. One that will be committed to seeing it through and who works tirelessly to be the best he can, and who gets the best out of the players he has at his disposal, even those that aren't that great.

 

It's astonishing the reaction to the rough patch we've had this season, and I too have found it particularly terrible and disappointing.

 

People just can't seem to understand that this is not going to be some Man City or Chelsea like turn around due to the blocks FFP have put in place. They refuse to accept reality.

 

A major part of us even having done as well as we have so far was transforming the dross and under performers we had at the club. That was down to Howe.

 

Let's see the 'elite' manager that is going to come along and do the same with the likes of Almiron, Longstaff, Murphy, Willock, Joelinton etc, as there will be no money for a major rebuild.

 

I cannot wait.

 

 

Edited February 25 by KaKa

[Kanji]

Id love for the genius know it Alls here who run a business to explain what they’d do to keep up with their business plan when their top 4-5 people are not able to work. But no no no it’s Howe ball and ashworth and all this other fucking utter stupid nonsense.