How would you rank the current PL Managers?

[Kaizero]

Just now, gazza ladra said:

Vieria has done very well with Palace this season. Froggy has wheeled out this 25% win percentage a couple times to make his opinion a factual certainty. Yes, Palace have had a lot of draws. But they have also had a very tough schedule. I think the most difficult  in the league. They have lost twice : Liverpool and Chelsea, both away. They drew at Arsenal and West Ham and just beat Man City  away.  He's doing a great job this season.

 

He also did quite well in the US and France. It's not a matter of smoke and mirrors or him getting a pass because of his name.  I wouldn't rate him higher than Howe myself, but when I look at the list of current premier league managers he's nowhere near the bottom.

 

Nobody said he should be bottom, Froggy just asked why the guy believed Viera was above Howe, which is a fair question - and it would be interesting and illuminating to hear the viewpoints of someone believing that.

[gazza ladra]

18 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

Nobody said he should be bottom, Froggy just asked why the guy believed Viera was above Howe, which is a fair question - and it would be interesting and illuminating to hear the viewpoints of someone believing that.

Well, Froggy has Vieira at 17. 

 

I was just noting that he (Froggy) has wheeled the 25% win rate a couple of times as if that is going to clinch the argument. Vieria has managed 11 games in the premier league, so stats aren't really going to prove amuch of anything at this point. Vieria did quite well in the US and France. But of course that's not much of an achievement  compared to doing well in Norway.

 

I've been really impressed with what I've seen of the teams he's managed. That's all. So, yeah, I rate him. ( I haven't really read the debate between you and Ckark. )

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by gazza ladra

[Clark]

1 hour ago, Kaizero said:

 

In all honesty, in my sixteen or something years on this forum, this is the dumbest post I've ever read.

 

He clearly states his argument, his argument doesn't fall on presenting something erroneously. Especially something that is so obvious to understand what he meant. If anything, focusing on that just goes to confirm you have no argument as you have continously been asked your opinion as to why Viera is better than Howe, and your only reasoning so far is essentially: "He said something wrong" and "You edited your post to include points that better backed up your argument, so therefore, due to the fact you edited your post - the points stated does not have any validity in this argment."

 

It's dumb, please stop it.

 

You have not addressed the following:

 

The main and initial question, to you, Clark: Why do you believe Viera is better than Howe?

The second question raised through adding points to the initial argument, what is your thought on all Viera's replacements performing better than he did in the clubs he left when it comes to portraying him as a manager with a better ability than Howe?

 

Those are the questions. The questions are not "What do you think of Froggy writing something in error" or "What do you think of Kaizero editing his post to add more points to his argument".

 

Please refrain from not answering the actual questions this time. It's a waste of time and no doubt of annoyance to everyone else.

It's pointless discussing Vieira (spelt correctly) vs Howe when you don't understand the fundamentals of debating.

 

His argument does fall on presenting something erroneous. That's an irrefutable fact. His argument (from his view) was that Howe should be above Vieira because 'Howe took Bournemouth from -17 points in the conference to the Premier League'. Believe it or not, saying something wrong in a debate, has consequences.

 

I haven't got to my argument as to why I have Vieira above Howe because so far I've been met with someone totally uninformed on the subject and someone else (you) who thinks that first uninformed poster deserves further explanation as to why they are wrong...

 

Now. Vieira and Howe. To clarify I ranked Vieira above Howe in an ability/achievement list, here is a brief breakdown as to why:

 

• Vieira has managed three clubs, in three different countries, in their respective top flight leagues
• Vieira took charge of NYCFC in Jan 2016 and improved its position in the combined MLS standings in each of his years with the club, improving from 17th in 2015 to 4th in his first season in 2016 and then to 2nd in 2017
• Vieira left NYCFC with 44.44% win percentage and led the club to it's first ever playoff appearance
• Vieira took over OGC Nice in June 2018 after Lucien Favre, in his first season he bettered Favre's previous campaign by finishing 7th in Ligue 1, in his second season he bettered that again finishing 5th and qualifying for the Europa League, he left with a 39.33% win percentage 
• At Crystal Palace, in his first 11 Premier League games he has managed to claim impressive victories over Manchester City (2-0) and Tottenham (3-0), whilst drawing with Arsenal, despite having a 27.27% win percentage in the Premier League, he has only lost 2 of the first 11 games, those coming from Liverpool and Chelsea

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Clark

[Guest HTT II]

24 minutes ago, Clark said:

It's pointless discussing Vieira (spelt correctly) vs Howe when you don't understand the fundamentals of debating.

 

His argument does fall on presenting something erroneous. That's an irrefutable fact. His argument (from his view) was that Howe should be above Vieira because 'Howe took Bournemouth from -17 points in the conference to the Premier League'. Believe it or not, saying something wrong in a debate, has consequences.

 

I haven't got to my argument as to why I have Vieira above Howe because so far I've been met with someone totally uninformed on the subject and someone else (you) who thinks that first uninformed poster deserves further explanation as to why they are wrong...

 

Now. Vieira and Howe. To clarify I ranked Vieira above Howe in an ability/achievement list, here is a brief breakdown as to why:

 

• Vieira has managed three clubs, in three different countries, in their respective top flight leagues
• Vieira took charge of NYCFC in Jan 2016 and improved its position in the combined MLS standings in each of his years with the club, improving from 17th in 2015 to 4th in his first season in 2016 and then to 2nd in 2017
• Vieira left NYCFC with 44.44% win percentage and led the club to it's first ever playoff appearance
• Vieira took over OGC Nice in June 2018 after Lucien Favre, in his first season he bettered Favre's previous campaign by finishing 7th in Ligue 1, in his second season he bettered that again finishing 5th and qualifying for the Europa League, he left with a 39.33% win percentage 
• At Crystal Palace, in his first 11 Premier League games he has managed to claim impressive victories over Manchester City (2-0) and Tottenham (3-0), whilst drawing with Arsenal, despite having a 27.27% win percentage in the Premier League, he has only lost 2 of the first 11 games, those coming from Liverpool and Chelsea

 

 

 

 

His most impressive result at Palace to date thus far is surely getting a point against Graeme Jones’ NUFC…

[Fantail Breeze]

Palace were one of most people’s favourites for relegation before the season started. The win percentage doesn’t tell the full story.

 

It ignores some very impressive results and doesn’t take into account performances have generally been good. They’ve also had a relatively tough start to the season. 

 

As we know performances often catch up in terms of results.

 

Not that I think he’s a better manager than Howe. But he’s certainly not as bad as some have tried to make out with a % rather than their eyes.

[Clark]

Just now, HTT II said:

His most impressive result at Palace to date thus far is surely getting a point against Graeme Jones’ NUFC…

It was an impressive performance, they absolutely battered us:

 

Possession: 75%-25%

Shots: 15-6

Shots on Target: 3-2

Total Passes: 664-214

Pass Success: 87%-64%

Dribbles: 13-5

Woodwork: 2-0 

[Clark]

Just now, Fantail Breeze said:

Palace were one of most people’s favourites for relegation before the season started. The win percentage doesn’t tell the full story.

 

It ignores some very impressive results and doesn’t take into account performances have generally been good. They’ve also had a relatively tough start to the season. 

 

As we know performances often catch up in terms of results.

 

Not that I think he’s a better manager than Howe. But he’s certainly not as bad as some have tried to make out with a % rather than their eyes.

People don't understand statistics and how/when to use them. He's been great at Palace:

 

At Crystal Palace, in his first 11 Premier League games he has managed to claim impressive victories over Manchester City (2-0) and Tottenham (3-0), whilst drawing with Arsenal, despite having a 27.27% win percentage in the Premier League, he has only lost 2 of the first 11 games, those coming from Liverpool and Chelsea. 

[Clark]

1 hour ago, gazza ladra said:

Well, Froggy has Vieira at 17. 

 

I was just noting that he (Froggy) has wheeled the 25% win rate a couple of times as if that is going to clinch the argument. Vieria has managed 11 games in the premier league, so stats aren't really going to prove amuch of anything at this point. Vieria did quite well in the US and France. But of course that's not much of an achievement  compared to doing well in Norway.

 

I've been really impressed with what I've seen of the teams he's managed. That's all. So, yeah, I rate him. ( I haven't really read the debate between you and Ckark. )

 

 

• Vieira has managed three clubs, in three different countries, in their respective top flight leagues
• Vieira took charge of NYCFC in Jan 2016 and improved its position in the combined MLS standings in each of his years with the club, improving from 17th in 2015 to 4th in his first season in 2016 and then to 2nd in 2017
• Vieira left NYCFC with 44.44% win percentage and led the club to it's first ever playoff appearance
• Vieira took over OGC Nice in June 2018 after Lucien Favre, in his first season he bettered Favre's previous campaign by finishing 7th in Ligue 1, in his second season he bettered that again finishing 5th and qualifying for the Europa League, he left with a 39.33% win percentage 
• At Crystal Palace, in his first 11 Premier League games he has managed to claim impressive victories over Manchester City (2-0) and Tottenham (3-0), whilst drawing with Arsenal, despite having a 27.27% win percentage in the Premier League, he has only lost 2 of the first 11 games, those coming from Liverpool and Chelsea

Impressive right? 

[gazza ladra]

 

See what you did Kaizero?

[Kaizero]

30 minutes ago, Clark said:

 

• Vieira has managed three clubs, in three different countries, in their respective top flight leagues
• Vieira took charge of NYCFC in Jan 2016 and improved its position in the combined MLS standings in each of his years with the club, improving from 17th in 2015 to 4th in his first season in 2016 and then to 2nd in 2017
• Vieira left NYCFC with 44.44% win percentage and led the club to it's first ever playoff appearance
• Vieira took over OGC Nice in June 2018 after Lucien Favre, in his first season he bettered Favre's previous campaign by finishing 7th in Ligue 1, in his second season he bettered that again finishing 5th and qualifying for the Europa League, he left with a 39.33% win percentage 
• At Crystal Palace, in his first 11 Premier League games he has managed to claim impressive victories over Manchester City (2-0) and Tottenham (3-0), whilst drawing with Arsenal, despite having a 27.27% win percentage in the Premier League, he has only lost 2 of the first 11 games, those coming from Liverpool and Chelsea

Impressive right? 

 

Now, see, this is a valid response to the question asked by Froggy. Thank you for that, I expect it wasn't that hard a thing to do.

 

I personally disagree that those stats equal Howe not warranting being above Viera when comparing the managerial careers of the two. Here's a comparison between another manager with a similar trajectory managerially as Viera to showcase why I don't believe your example is that impressive.

• Deila has managed five clubs (four professionally), in three different countries, in their respective top flight leagues.
• Deila took charge of Strømsgodset in 2008 and went on to win a Norwgian cup and the first top flight title for the club in 43 years on a shoestring budget after first establishing the club in the top flight, and then as a title contender. He left with a 48.15% win percentage.
• Deila then took charge of Celtic and won two league titles and one league cup and left with a 63.56% win percentage.
• Deila then went back to Norway and stabilized Vålerenga as a top flight club during a time of crisis.
• Deila then went to NYCFC (which, by the way, had only existed for one season before Viera took them to their "first" MLS Playoff). With it being a club this size, and in the City group, a Playoff spot is the very least expected) and holds a win percentage of 45.61% (higher than what Viera left with) and a QF appereance in the CONCACAF Champions League (a first for the club). 

Does this mean that if Deila had for instance been appointed Norwich manager, and then held a similar statistic at Norwich such as Viera does with Crystal Palace - I'd place Deila above Howe on my list? No, not at all. But apples to oranges, and I respect your opinion now you have explained it - even if I disagree with it.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Kaizero

[Clark]

4 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

Now, see, this is a valid response to the question asked by Froggy. Thank you for that, I expect it wasn't that hard a thing to do.

 

I personally disagree that those stats equal Howe not warranting being above Viera when comparing the managerial careers of the two.

• Deila has managed five clubs (four in reality), in three different countries, in their respective top flight leagues.
• Deila took charge of Strømsgodset in 2008 and went on to win a Norwgian cup and the first top flight title for the club in 43 years on a shoestring budget after first establishing the club in the top flight, and then as a title contender. He left with a 48.15% win percentage.
• Deila then took charge of Celtic and won two league titles and one league cup and left with a 63.56% win percentage.
• Deila then went back to Norway and stabilized Vålerenga as a top flight club during a time of crisis.
• Deila then went to NYCFC (which, by the way, had only existed for one season before Viera took them to their "first" MLS Playoff). With it being a club this size, and in the City group, a Playoff spot is the very least expected) and holds a win percentage of 45.61% (higher than what Viera left with) and a QF appereance in the CONCACAF Champions League (a first for the club). 

Does this mean that if Deila had for instance been appointed Norwich manager, and then held a similar statistic at Norwich such as Viera does with Crystal Palace - I'd place Deila above Howe on my list? No, not at all. But apples to oranges, and I respect your opinion now you have explained it - even if I disagree with it.

Dude... What are you doing? This wasn't, isn't and never has been a Vieira vs Delia debate... As expected, that was a complete waste of time.

 

Just seen the hypothetical at the end... Wow.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Clark

[Kaizero]

3 minutes ago, Clark said:

Dude... What are you doing? This wasn't, isn't and never has been a Vieira vs Delia debate... As expected, that was a complete waste of time.

 

It's an example of why the stats you present for Viera are not that impressive within the context of the debate Viera vs. Howe, as I could just as easily present just as "impressive" stats for a manager everyone agrees is not impressive at all. Hence underlining my belief that what Howe has done with Bournemouth is more impressive than what Viera has done in his career and why I believe he should be above him on a list. It's like you can't understand basic concepts, and when faced with a counter-argument, your first strategy is to look for whatever unrelated issue you think exists to hold on to as an attempt to not having to engage in debate.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Kaizero

[Clark]

1 minute ago, Kaizero said:

 

It's an example of why the stats you present for Viera are not that impressive within the context of the debate Viera vs. Howe, as I could just as easily present just as "impressive" stats for a manager everyone agrees is not impressive at all. Hence underlining my belief that what Howe has done with Bournemouth is more impressive than what Viera has done in his career and why I believe he should be above him on a list. It's like you can't understand basic concepts.

 

Hey, if this manager who nobody mentioned got this job that nobody talked about and got the same statistics as this other manager does that make him a better manager? That's what I thought!

 

That was embarrassing. 

[Kaizero]

6 minutes ago, Clark said:

Hey, if this manager who nobody mentioned got this job that nobody talked about and got the same statistics as this other manager does that make him a better manager? That's what I thought!

 

That was embarrassing. 

 

Please stay on topic. It's called examples. If I am to argue that Viera should be listed below Howe, I would need to present examples and evidence of my way of thinking for that opinion to hold up. You presented your argument, and I countered it by showcasing an example of why the evidence presented by you were not impressive at all - and then gave a hypothetical at the end to counter the argument of the current 12 games he's managed Crystal Palace having the weight you both say and also doesn't say, by stating 12 matches is too little to judge, has. If the hypothetical were true, would you have placed that manager above Howe - given the very similar career paths of the two. Would the 12 matches in the PL so far outweigh Howe's many, many more at a club with lesser economic muscles than Crystal Palace.

 

It is very frustrating that it takes three to four posts about the same subject to even get you to engage with the actual debate as you try to weasel your way out of actually responding to the points being raised. Especially when it's clearly evident you can actually debate the issues as you have done this on occasion.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Kaizero

[Abacus]

54 minutes ago, Clark said:

People don't understand statistics and how/when to use them. He's been great at Palace:

 

At Crystal Palace, in his first 11 Premier League games he has managed to claim impressive victories over Manchester City (2-0) and Tottenham (3-0), whilst drawing with Arsenal, despite having a 27.27% win percentage in the Premier League, he has only lost 2 of the first 11 games, those coming from Liverpool and Chelsea. 

I happen to mostly agree with you about Vieira being underrated, and was a bit surprised to see him ranking so low in most people's lists. I think he's done a cracking job so far, and that away point against Palace was a good one.

 

I do think it's hard to compare across different leagues though, and, although it's just a bit of fun I don't think he's been managing enough games in the PL yet to make many sensible comparisons.

 

For example, keeping Bournemouth defying gravity for so long speaks well of Howe, and I don't know you'd realistically compare those achievements.

 

But you could say that about anyone on the list though, as they're all managing in completely different circumstances and some people are judging managers based on past successes etc.

 

Personally, I've no problem with OGS being towards the bottom of the pack, for instance. Benitez, I think, has often been placed too highly on here as well. Mid table for me right now, which will be an unpopular view. 

 

Both him and OGS are in the difficult position of trying to manage hodge podge squads that weren't of their making, though. So again, there's context.

 

Although, I suppose OGS has at least had time to address that problem and yet still hasn't - but who knows what real say he has over transfers in the first place.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Abacus
.

[Froggy]

I do deeply apologise for not getting my facts right.

 

However, what Howe achieved with Bournemouth was nothing short of remarkable. If someone thinks Vieira is a better manager than Howe I personally find that incredible.

[Kaizero]

Just now, Froggy said:

I do deeply apologise for not getting my facts right.

 

However, what Howe achieved with Bournemouth was nothing short of remarkable. If someone thinks Vieira is a better manager than Howe I personally find that incredible.

 

Imagine if you had gotten them right, he might actually have had to counter your argument 

[Clark]

Just now, Kaizero said:

 

Please stay on topic. It's called examples. If I am to argue that Viera should be listed below Howe, I would need to present examples and evidence of my way of thinking for that opinion to hold up. You presented your argument, and I countered it by showcasing an example of why the evidence presented by you were not impressive at all - and then gave a hypothetical at the end to counter the argument of the current 12 games he's managed Crystal Palace having the weight you both say and also doesn't say, by stating 12 matches is too little to judge, has. If the hypothetical were true, would you have placed that manager above Howe - given the very similar career paths of the two. Would the 12 matches in the PL so far outweigh Howe's many, many more at a club with lesser economic muscles than Crystal Palace.

'Please stay on topic'

 

That's a joke right? You demanded that I provide reasoning as to why I had Vieira (spelt correctly) above Howe, I give you a comprehensive list as to why I rate Vieira only to be met with a list about Ronny Deila and a hypothetical about Norwich City? And you ask me to stay on topic?

 

'I would need to present examples and evidence of my way of thinking for that opinion to hold up'

 

Yeah, relevant examples and evidence... Haha. Jesus Christ. I'm done. I promise, I'm done. Let's stop while you're 0 for 2. 

[Froggy]

Why do people not rate Howe like?  If he was named as Ole's successor I wouldn't even be unhappy about it. Opinions are mad.

 

EDIT: Just noticed the list has Rodgers and Potter above Rafa Benitez for ability and achievement as well. That'll do me aye.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Froggy

[Clark]

4 minutes ago, Abacus said:

I happen to mostly agree with you about Vieira being underrated, and was a bit surprised to see him ranking so low in most people's lists. I think he's done a cracking job so far, and that away point against Palace was a good one.

 

I do think it's hard to compare across different leagues though, and, although it's just a bit of fun I don't think he's been managing enough games in the PL yet to make many sensible comparisons.

 

For example, keeping Bournemouth defying gravity for so long speaks well of Howe, and I don't know you'd realistically compare those achievements.

 

But you could say that about anyone on the list though, as they're all managing in completely different circumstances and some people are judging managers based on past successes etc.

 

Personally, I've no problem with OGS being towards the bottom of the pack, for instance. Benitez, I think, has often been placed too highly on here as well. Mid table for me right now, which will be an unpopular view. 

 

Both him and OGS are in the difficult position of trying to manage hodge podge squads that weren't of their making, though. So again, there's context.

 

Although, I suppose OGS has at least had time to address that problem and yet still hasn't - but who knows what real say he has over transfers in the first place.

It's extremely difficult to compare careers of very good managers, extremely difficult. Agree with your post, especially so regarding Benitez.  

[Kaizero]

5 minutes ago, Clark said:

'Please stay on topic'

 

That's a joke right? You demanded that I provide reasoning as to why I had Vieira (spelt correctly) above Howe, I give you a comprehensive list as to why I rate Vieira only to be met with a list about Ronny Deila and a hypothetical about Norwich City? And you ask me to stay on topic?

 

'I would need to present examples and evidence of my way of thinking for that opinion to hold up'

 

Yeah, relevant examples and evidence... Haha. Jesus Christ. I'm done. I promise, I'm done. Let's stop while you're 0 for 2. 

 

If you had any basic understanding of a debate, you would, again, realize that showing an example to counter your "comprehensive list" would be the next step to back up a view contrary to yours. Your next step would, in a natural circumstance, have been to counter that by providing more thought and explanation as to why your list of stats would make Vieira (so sorry for the missing i, hope you don't lose any sleep over it) a better manager than someone with similar stats who everyone agrees would be rated below Howe. 

 

Your argument: This list proves why Vieira is better than Howe in my opinion.

My counter: Your list could just as well be for this guy, who everyone agrees is inferior to Howe. Why should Vieira be above Howe based on your list, but in a hypothetical where Deila is in the PL, he wouldn't be?

 

My conclusion: You are listing Vieira high on name recognition and expectations, not on merit. Which is fair enough. I listed certain managers low on my list just because I didn't like them, not hiding from that fact though if asked why I placed them there.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Kaizero

[Clark]

8 minutes ago, Froggy said:

I do deeply apologise for not getting my facts right.

 

However, what Howe achieved with Bournemouth was nothing short of remarkable. If someone thinks Vieira is a better manager than Howe I personally find that incredible.

 

3 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Why do people not rate Howe like?  If he was named as Ole's successor I wouldn't even be unhappy about it. Opinions are mad.

I respect when someone admits to a mistake. People, for whatever reason, seem to find that hard to do. Top man.

 

Now. Vieira and Howe. To clarify I ranked Vieira above Howe in an ability/achievement list, here is a brief breakdown as to why:

 

• Vieira has managed three clubs, in three different countries, in their respective top flight leagues
• Vieira took charge of NYCFC in Jan 2016 and improved its position in the combined MLS standings in each of his years with the club, improving from 17th in 2015 to 4th in his first season in 2016 and then to 2nd in 2017
• Vieira left NYCFC with 44.44% win percentage and led the club to it's first ever playoff appearance
• Vieira took over OGC Nice in June 2018 after Lucien Favre, in his first season he bettered Favre's previous campaign by finishing 7th in Ligue 1, in his second season he bettered that again finishing 5th and qualifying for the Europa League, he left with a 39.33% win percentage 
• At Crystal Palace, in his first 11 Premier League games he has managed to claim impressive victories over Manchester City (2-0) and Tottenham (3-0), whilst drawing with Arsenal, despite having a 27.27% win percentage in the Premier League, he has only lost 2 of the first 11 games, those coming from Liverpool and Chelsea

I absolutley rate Howe, I think he has done fantastic things at Bournemouth, based on the above I put him below Vieira, only just, the whole ranking managers by list is extremely difficult and a lot of the positions are interchangeable. Again, much respect for owning a mistake. 

[Clark]

12 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Why do people not rate Howe like?  If he was named as Ole's successor I wouldn't even be unhappy about it. Opinions are mad.

 

EDIT: Just noticed the list has Rodgers and Potter above Rafa Benitez for ability and achievement as well. That'll do me aye.

It absolutley does.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Clark

[Froggy]

6 minutes ago, Clark said:

Vieira has managed three clubs, in three different countries, in their respective top flight leagues

 

I wouldn't really use this as a guide for judging someone's ability and achievements. Some shocking managers get jobs they have no right in getting. I know you're thinking of Solksjaer when I say that, but Solskjaer has managed in a top flight league also, and won multiple trophies including leading Molde to their first ever league title. So why would Solskjaer be bottom?

 

On top of that, why would Benitez who has won multiple league titles, multiple domestic cups, a European Cup and a UEFA CUP, be behind anyone but the likes of Klopp and Guardiola on that list?

 

Just a bit strange for me to be honest. But each to their own. We obviously have different parameters for judging managers. I personally don't think Vieira has done anything at all to warrant being that high.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Froggy

[Clark]

22 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

I wouldn't really use this as a guide for judging someone's ability and achievements. Some shocking managers get jobs they have no right in getting. I know you're thinking of Solksjaer when I say that, but Solskjaer has managed in a top flight league also, and won multiple trophies including leading Molde to their first ever league title. So why would Solskjaer be bottom?

 

On top of that, why would Benitez who has won multiple league titles, multiple domestic cups, a European Cup and a UEFA CUP, be behind anyone but the likes of Klopp and Guardiola on that list?

 

Just a bit strange for me to be honest. But each to their own. We obviously have different parameters for judging managers. I personally don't think Vieira has done anything at all to warrant being that high.

It's an extremely difficult task to manage top flight teams in different countries, with different cultures, different surroundings/setups, philosophies and so on, it shows an impressive ability to adapt to very different high stress situations.

 

Vieira had every right in getting those jobs, as demonstrated by his success as I listed previously. I've never mentioned Solskjaer in this specific debate and I'd rather stick to Howe/Vieira as that was what the initial debate was, but I will mention the criteria which lead to my ranking of Benitez (and therefore Solskjaer) next.

 

Benitez has excellent achievements, although his achievements (honours) are not comparable to those of Klopp and Guardiola, I suspect another 'Howe in the Conference' mistake. The reason for ranking Benitez 9th, is based on his ability, I don't believe he's a very good manager in todays game especially when compared to those in the Premier League. If I made just an ability ranking, Benitez would rank much lower than 9th, his achievements actually boosted his ranking in my table. 

 

You've mentioned that Vieira hasn't 'done anything' to warrant being placed above six other managers (Howe, Gerrard, Lage, Smith and Solskjaer)... Why? What's that based on?

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Clark