More transfer rumours

[Ikon]

Just now, r0cafella said:

How good is Philips? He’s played less than 50 games at the highest level at 26 years old. The figures quoted are eye watering too. 

I think he’s very good but I’m not sure he’s worth spending that much money on. Maybe we could get a cheaper option that will improve us and also free up money for other positions which may end up making us stronger on the whole. 
 

For example, get someone like Grillitsch on a free and suddenly we have around 50m for other positions. Is he as good as Phillips? Probably not, who knows how he would do in the PL. he would improve our midfield no doubt. Wee need to strengthen a few positions.

[macphisto]

4 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

How good is Philips? He’s played less than 50 games at the highest level at 26 years old. The figures quoted are eye watering too. 

As I said, I just used him as an example but if the club think he would be an improvement then go for him. That was the main point I was trying to make. 

[Manxst]

27 minutes ago, macphisto said:

I could also give you a lot of others, many more than you listed, who are in the price bracket and would not improve the team. Just have a look at the transfers for this season. 

 

If we have the money then why not go out and buy the best players you can who are willing to come? It's like some people have been Ashleyized and are frightened to spend big money. Stuff this slowly, slowly approach. That is not to say there is not room for free transfers, buying cheap older players for experience like Trippier, but in the main to make significant improvements to the team we'll have to spend big money.

 

Who knows what our scouting system is at the moment but even if we had the best setup then we'd still recruit as many bad players as good in the £20/£30 million bracket. 

 

 

 

 

The point being, that you said we couldn’t get ANY decent players for those prices. Obviously there will be players in that bracket who aren’t particular good and clubs have overpaid for, but that’s the point of decent scouting. 

[r0cafella]

Just now, Ikon said:

I think he’s very good but I’m not sure he’s worth spending that much money on. Maybe we could get a cheaper option that will improve us and also free up money for other positions which may end up making us stronger on the whole. 
 

For example, get someone like Grillitsch on a free and suddenly we have around 50m for other positions. Is he as good as Phillips? Probably not, who knows how he would do in the PL. he would improve our midfield no doubt. Wee need to strengthen a few positions.

I think it’s tricky and one of the major challenges we face. We don’t have many sellable players but at the same time we have an ageing squad which needs improving everywhere. It’s going to be very difficult to find the balance, it’s clear that due to the glass ceiling of FFP We won’t be able to do a city and have a 50million player in every position. 

[r0cafella]

Just now, macphisto said:

As I said, I just used him as an example but if the club think he would be an improvement then go for him. That was the main point I was trying to make. 

Wasn’t a criticism of you, or your post. I genuinely don’t know how good he actually is. 

[WillingtonMag]

New centre forward,Right winger/forward, another centre midfielder and a centre half. If we fill those four positions with quality we can challenge for European places next season.

[SUPERTOON]

13 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

How good is Philips? He’s played less than 50 games at the highest level at 26 years old. The figures quoted are eye watering too. 

He’s strongly linked with Man Utd, I’m with you, I’d rather spend it elsewhere.

[Ikon]

A good example is someone like Targett,especially this early in our “project”. First of all it’s more or less risk free as it’s a loan, and if he does well like has then there is the option of buying him for an decent amount (by the sounds of it). 
 

is he an exciting and elegant signing? I don’t think so. Is it a very good signing that has improved us? Most definitely I’d say. He’s an example of a signing that we need to do in the summer to improve us while not breaking the bank. Allows us to make a couple of marquee signings as the icing on the cake. 
 

 

Say that we had signed a new LB for 30m, would he have done much better than Targett? I don’t think so. Every team has players that are not wow but offer quality and average 7.5/10 performances consistently. 

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Ikon

[macphisto]

10 minutes ago, Ikon said:

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t go for 50m players that will improve us no doubt. What I’m saying is that we also need to find “bargains”. Players available with great quality or potential that don’t cost 40-60m but prove to be great signings. We need 4-6 players. We won’t spend 200m or near. 

 

 

 

We could get away with 4 players of top quality in my opinion. 

 

If not £200 million then not far off it, the evidence is in front of our eyes:

1) For PIF to go through the hassle of buying us for over a year, how they were almost publicly humiliated by the delay (at least in their eyes)

2) Al-Rumayyan attending a few matches (he doesn't waste his time and signifies the importance of Newcastle)

3) January transfer window spend that was already high and could have been much higher with the public bids for Carlos, Botman and Ekitike (say another £60-£80 million though maybe we wouldn't have bought Burn)

4) Publicly stated aims to be challenging in the next 5 years

5) Regional prestige of PIF in relation to Qatar and UAE

6) PIF absolutely minted

 

Despite all of the above, do you really think PIF are going to mess around with free transfers, contract clauses and "bargains". Yes some clever transfers will come in handy but they'll also throw serious money at the club too. The main consideration for them will be to ensure they don't get ripped off in the process, spending a lot of money won't be the issue apart FFP.

 

[Lush Vlad]

11 minutes ago, macphisto said:

Trippier whilst a good player is 31. As you said, Bruno was more than £30 million and will probably end up closer to £40 million with addons which is the minimum price bracket we should be looking at in general as there are always exceptions. 

 

I understand people thinking we need to address the overall quality of the squad but I actually don't think the squad is that poor now. I could see us shooting up the league if we buy 3/4 real quality players, on a lesser scale but not too dissimilar to when we bought Robert and Bellamy under Robson. I would much rather go for quality over quantity as we can cover some of the holes in the squad that would be left over.

I think the squad depth is pretty poor. So many nothing players and plenty who are regularly playing. Who should be on the bench or shipped out. 
 

All that said. I do think you could really improve the starting XI on its own with 4-5 players. I think a striker, wide man, DM and a CB would be great. But as I keep saying, I can’t see us spending £40m-£50m plus on more than a couple of those signings. So you still need to supplement that with some that cost a bit less. 
 

[macphisto]

13 minutes ago, Manxst said:

The point being, that you said we couldn’t get ANY decent players for those prices. Obviously there will be players in that bracket who aren’t particular good and clubs have overpaid for, but that’s the point of decent scouting. 

I said there would be exceptions to any price band if you read my original message. 

 

You can have decent scouting but you will still buy as many bad players and good in the £20/£30 million bracket. Look at our January transfer window, it is no coincidence that our best player by far, a level above all the other players we bought, was over £30 million and will probably end up closer to £40 million. 

[Ikon]

2 minutes ago, macphisto said:

We could get away with 4 players of top quality in my opinion. 

 

If not £200 million then not far off it, the evidence is in front of our eyes:

1) For PIF to go through the hassle of buying us for over a year, how they were almost publicly humiliated by the delay (at least in their eyes)

2) Al-Rumayyan attending a few matches (he doesn't waste his time and signifies the importance of Newcastle)

3) January transfer window spend that was already high and could have been much higher with the public bids for Carlos, Botman and Ekitike (say another £60-£80 million though maybe we wouldn't have bought Burn)

4) Publicly stated aims to be challenging in the next 5 years

5) Regional prestige of PIF in relation to Qatar and UAE

6) PIF absolutely minted

 

Despite all of the above, do you really think PIF are going to mess around with free transfers, contract clauses and "bargains". Yes some clever transfers will come in handy but they'll also throw serious money at the club too. The main consideration for them will be to ensure they don't get ripped off in the process, spending a lot of money won't be the issue apart FFP.

 

 

“Apart from FFP” being key words. I know that we could spend a lot despite ffp. But we won’t put all our eggs in one basket, and rightly so. We need to do some sensible spending too. I’m sure we will sign real quality. But they don’t have to cost 50m each. Plus we need more than 4 players anyway.

[macphisto]

8 minutes ago, Ikon said:

A good example is someone like Targett,especially this early in our “project”. First of all it’s more or less risk free as it’s a loan, and if he does well like has then there is the option of buying him for an decent amount (by the sounds of it). 
 

is he an exciting and elegant signing? I don’t think so. Is it a very good signing that has improved us? Most definitely I’d say. He’s an example of a signing that we need to do in the summer to improve us while not breaking the bank. Allows us to make a couple of marquee signings as the icing on the cake. 
 

 

Say that we had signed a new LB for 30m, would he have done much better than Targett? I don’t think so. Every team has players that are not wow but offer quality and average 7.5/10 performances consistently. 

 

 

 

 

Talking about the 1st team, not boosting the squad, Targett was a great signing but I think we now have enough at that level and if we introduced a player of similar pedigree then it would not improve the team. For want of a better way of putting it, we now have a team of Targetts and need to step up in terms of quality. 

[Manxst]

2 minutes ago, macphisto said:

I said there would be exceptions to any price band if you read my original message. 

 

You can have decent scouting but you will still buy as many bad players and good in the £20/£30 million bracket. Look at our January transfer window, it is no coincidence that our best player by far, a level above all the other players we bought, was over £30 million and will probably end up closer to £40 million. 

And ‘exceptions’ are one or two players. I gave you a substantial list. Given we need squad wide improvement in nearly every area, I simply can’t see the club spending £50m+ for everything we need. We need to keep decent money back for improvement the year or two after, when we are (hopefully) in Europe, getting established as a top team/club, and have the draw for the mega money players you want us to sign. Right now I’d say we aren’t. 

[macphisto]

Just now, Ikon said:

 

“Apart from FFP” being key words. I know that we could spend a lot despite ffp. But we won’t put all our eggs in one basket, and rightly so. We need to do some sensible spending too. I’m sure we will sign real quality. But they don’t have to cost 50m each. Plus we need more than 4 players anyway.

Exactly, so they aren't  key words. Not an issue as it stands will be even less of a one when we sign new commercial deals. 

 

In an ideal world yes we need more than 4 players but I honestly don't think our squad is as weak in relation to other teams as we think it is. 

[Ikon]

4 minutes ago, macphisto said:

Talking about the 1st team, not boosting the squad, Targett was a great signing but I think we now have enough at that level and if we introduced a player of similar pedigree then it would not improve the team. For want of a better way of putting it, we now have a team of Targetts and need to step up in terms of quality. 

 

We can improve the 1st team without spending a ludicrous amount of money on every player. 

[macphisto]

2 minutes ago, Manxst said:

And ‘exceptions’ are one or two players. I gave you a substantial list. Given we need squad wide improvement in nearly every area, I simply can’t see the club spending £50m+ for everything we need. We need to keep decent money back for improvement the year or two after, when we are (hopefully) in Europe, getting established as a top team/club, and have the draw for the mega money players you want us to sign. Right now I’d say we aren’t. 

We have the money, there is no need to keep any back. That's not saying spend £500 million this summer but £200 million would be more than reasonable. 

[Likelylad]

I mean tbf, you’d like to think that they’re willing to spend atleast 100 million if they want to actually compete at the top end of the table. 
 

Add on to that whatever they bring in from selling the likes of Gayle, Almiron etc. Say 50 million. I’m quietly confident of a good summer. 

We should put a 500k bid in for Hamza Choudhury. Just to make a point of we’re coming from to where we’re going. 

[Ikon]

2 minutes ago, macphisto said:

Exactly, so they aren't  key words. Not an issue as it stands will be even less of a one when we sign new commercial deals. 

 

In an ideal world yes we need more than 4 players but I honestly don't think our squad is as weak in relation to other teams as we think it is. 

You didn’t even read what I said did you. We won’t put all eggs in one basket. We can’t risk spending money like crazy. Especially if we don’t improve our income on and off the field before we really really start spending BIG. If we spend all we can now “hypothetically” and we don’t end up playing in the CL like we thought we would then what? Look at Everton, they have spent a lot but never reached high enough on the sporting level so now they can’t spends much at all anymore, and are now fighting relegation. 
 

We will make ambitious signings but we also need to make shrewd signings too that won’t cost a bomb either. Can be ambitious but also sensible in our spending. We are aiming high but it will take time to get where we want. 
 

Enough said about it from me  

[macphisto]

Just now, Ikon said:

 

We can improve the 1st team without spending a ludicrous amount of money on every player. 

Not every player but in the main people are defying logic if they can not see the relation to spend and league position. As I have said, it is no coincidence that by far our best player this January was the most expensive one who will end up close to £40 million with add ons. We should now be looking at Bruno-type of players not Targett-type of players which is what people are indirectly advocating through free transfers, clauses and £20-£30 million on players. I have nothing against Targett, a good player who will be around the 1st team for a good few seasons but buying players of his standard in the future won't improve the team in my opinion. 

 

 

 

 

[Ikon]

You just don’t get it do you. Enjoy your day. 

[macphisto]

3 minutes ago, Ikon said:

You didn’t even read what I said did you. We won’t put all eggs in one basket. We can’t risk spending money like crazy. Especially if we don’t improve our income on and off the field before we really really start spending BIG. If we spend all we can now “hypothetically” and we don’t end up playing in the CL like we thought we would then what? Look at Everton, they have spent a lot but never reached high enough on the sporting level so now they can’t spends much at all anymore, and are now fighting relegation. 
 

We will make ambitious signings but we also need to make shrewd signings too that won’t cost a bomb either. Can be ambitious but also sensible in our spending. We are aiming high but it will take time to get where we want. 
 

Enough said about it from me  

I'm very sure our deals will come through very soon to allow us to stay well within FFP! I enjoyed our exchange and hopefully we both agree on enjoying the summer ahead!

 

[Ikon]

Definitely will be enjoying the summer. Just don’t expect too much..  

[Manxst]

8 minutes ago, macphisto said:

We have the money, there is no need to keep any back. That's not saying spend £500 million this summer but £200 million would be more than reasonable. 

Man City bought the likes of Bellamy, Bridge etc in the year after their takeover, then spent more in the following years once the club grew as a result. It’s impossible to go and spend all the money in one go like you’re suggesting- for one thing, most ‘elite level’ players (Haaland, Mbappe etc) wouldn’t go near us right now, despite the cash available, as they would have better offers elsewhere. We MIGHT have a chance with the likes of Nunez, but even he will probably have better offers in terms of established teams wanting him, and look to go there rather than to us. The 20-30 bracket are those players who might well be elite players in a few years, and can grow with us- the Raphinhas etc. Sprinkle those with a 40m Bruno here and there, and the future of the club will be good going forward. 

[1892er]

8 minutes ago, Ikon said:

You didn’t even read what I said did you. We won’t put all eggs in one basket. We can’t risk spending money like crazy. Especially if we don’t improve our income on and off the field before we really really start spending BIG. If we spend all we can now “hypothetically” and we don’t end up playing in the CL like we thought we would then what? Look at Everton, they have spent a lot but never reached high enough on the sporting level so now they can’t spends much at all anymore, and are now fighting relegation. 
 

We will make ambitious signings but we also need to make shrewd signings too that won’t cost a bomb either. Can be ambitious but also sensible in our spending. We are aiming high but it will take time to get where we want. 
 

Enough said about it from me  

I agree with this and I think thats pretty much what Man City did in their first season of them being taken over. Need to lay the right foundations before building our house.