More transfer rumours

[STM]

Man City have about 14 elite players+ other squad players like Ake.

 

We currently have 2 elite players, in Bruno and Trippier.

 

If we can add 2 Elite players every window, that would be good going IMO. That's not saying we only sign 2 players, that's saying we sign players who can benefit the squad during the building process and taking into account that not every transfer works, 2 stars sounds reasonable.

 

Man City went through quite a few good players, who weren't quite elite level on their way to success.

[sixx]

16 minutes ago, HTT II said:

It’s down to the manager…

 

I think you could be right in the sense that it's not so much about the transfer itself but about the player's development that happens afterwards. I recall some serious doubts about Van Dijk signing for Liverpool and de Bruyne signing for Man City. I also don't recall that much excitement about Liverpool signing Salah or Bale signing with Spurs or when Bernardo Silva signed for City. There's also definitely an element of luck in this as I recall Salah not even being Liverpool's second or third option in that transfer window. At the end of the day a succesful transfer strategy is an extremely elusive thing but I do hope that the current NUFC brass have a better idea of it than I do 

[Tiresias]

We will spend our way to the top, but I don't think it is going to be splurged. To get there you need top of the class backroom staff. You need facilities to attract players which we are a long way behind on and if we start giving out the mega wages now it will destroy the dressing room. Equally to appease financial fair play as feeble as it is we need to massively improve our commercial revenue. 

 

Until we are challenging for titles etc it will most likely (if we are sensible) be young prospects who are not yet finished product that the likes of real madrid etc wouldn't be after yet and really solid experienced players like Trippier and we will build up over several windows. 

 

If we went and bought Pogba nad a bunch of super high wages mercenaries in summer, not only would it stop us signing lots of more reasonable players, the squad would be unbalanced shit. 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Tiresias

[macphisto]

4 minutes ago, Awaymag said:

get signings in so we can challenge for 6-8 position and Europa spot.   If in Jan we are ahead or behind, maybe a little boost.    Either way I can't wait....going be so exciting!

Really no idea how the January window will pan out with the World Cup, the break is from the 14th November to 26th December. Clubs will essentially be making decisions in January based on their position from November.

[macphisto]

4 minutes ago, sixx said:

 

I think you could be right in the sense that it's not so much about the transfer itself but about the player's development that happens afterwards. I recall some serious doubts about Van Dijk signing for Liverpool and de Bruyne signing for Man City. I also don't recall that much excitement about Liverpool signing Salah or Bale signing with Spurs or when Bernardo Silva signed for City. There's also definitely an element of luck in this as I recall Salah not even being Liverpool's second or third option in that transfer window. At the end of the day a succesful transfer strategy is an extremely elusive thing but I do hope that the current NUFC brass have a better idea of it than I do 

Liverpool are renowned for their use of data and transfer committee, that is the main reason for their success in the transfer market. 

[macphisto]

10 minutes ago, Tiresias said:

We will spend our way to the top, but I don't think it is going to be splurged. To get there you need top of the class backroom staff. You need facilities to attract players which we are a long way behind on and if we start giving out the mega wages now it will destroy the dressing room. Equally to appease financial fair play as feeble as it is we need to massively improve our commercial revenue. 

 

Until we are challenging for titles etc it will most likely (if we are sensible) be young prospects who are not yet finished product that the likes of real madrid etc wouldn't be after yet and really solid experienced players like Trippier and we will build up over several windows. 

 

If we went and bought Pogba nad a bunch of super high wages mercenaries in summer, not only would it stop us signing lots of more reasonable players, the squad would be unbalanced shit. 

 

 

 

Irrespective of the club now and in the future, surely you would stay away from Pogba as he is now and those players in any circumstances? 

[The College Dropout]

Manchester City spent their way to the top. Yes they did it smartly but if their budget was the same as Leicester City…. They would be Leicester City. 
 

In their first full summer transfer window they spent £130m in 2009 all from premier league rivals.  That’s £200m+ in this era.  Including 

3 centreforwards and 2 centrebacks. sacked off their PFM for a proven winner. Finished 5th iirc. Losing out narrowly to Spurs. 
 

the next year they built the basis of their title winning side. Silva, Toure, Milner, Dzeko, Balotelli. Mostly from abroad. Finished 3rd.  Spent £170m.

 

 

City got to 4th by making their rivals weak. Bought starters at Villa (challenging for 4th at the time), Man U and Arsenal. Then supplemented with top quality from abroad. We should do the same thing.  
 

That’s £300m to finish 3rd in 2010.   With Hart, Kompany, Zabaleta already there. Decent saleable assets like Bellamy, Boateng and Nigel De Jong.  
 

 

Best case scenario. We spend £300m over 2 years in 2022-4, we’ll finish 8th.  We need to be aggressive. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by The College Dropout

[The College Dropout]

Real Madrid consistently buy the best youngsters in the world ala Chelsea. And just sell em.  Hakimi, Odegaard.  The lucky few stay on and go to the first team eg Varane, Vini Jr. 

[Nine]

31 minutes ago, STM said:

Man City have about 14 elite players+ other squad players like Ake.

 

We currently have 2 elite players, in Bruno and Trippier.

 

If we can add 2 Elite players every window, that would be good going IMO. That's not saying we only sign 2 players, that's saying we sign players who can benefit the squad during the building process and taking into account that not every transfer works, 2 stars sounds reasonable.

 

Man City went through quite a few good players, who weren't quite elite level on their way to success.

 

 Might be a tad early to be calling Bruno elite but I know you mean. 

[The College Dropout]

29 minutes ago, sixx said:

 

I think you could be right in the sense that it's not so much about the transfer itself but about the player's development that happens afterwards. I recall some serious doubts about Van Dijk signing for Liverpool and de Bruyne signing for Man City. I also don't recall that much excitement about Liverpool signing Salah or Bale signing with Spurs or when Bernardo Silva signed for City. There's also definitely an element of luck in this as I recall Salah not even being Liverpool's second or third option in that transfer window. At the end of the day a succesful transfer strategy is an extremely elusive thing but I do hope that the current NUFC brass have a better idea of it than I do 

Yes we need to be smart but I remember those transfers differently. 
 

Van Dijk was regarded as at least the best defender outside the top sides. The fee was deemed astronomical but he was regarded as the best of the rest at least.  
 

Bale was a massive wonder kid and struggled with injuries. In that era Spurs gambled a lot on youth with major success in Berbatov, Carrick, Modric, Bale etc. but misses are inevitable too. We should adopt this strategy.  
 

KDB, Bernardo - highly regarded wonderkids. 

[STM]

18 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Manchester City spent their way to the top. Yes they did it smartly but if their budget was the same as Leicester City…. They would be Leicester City. 
 

In their first full summer transfer window they spent £130m in 2009 all from premier league rivals.  That’s £200m+ in this era.  Including 

3 centreforwards and 2 centrebacks. sacked off their PFM for a proven winner. Finished 5th iirc. Losing out narrowly to Spurs. 
 

the next year they built the basis of their title winning side. Silva, Toure, Milner, Dzeko, Balotelli. Mostly from abroad. Finished 3rd.  Spent £170m.

 

 

City got to 4th by making their rivals weak. Bought starters at Villa (challenging for 4th at the time), Man U and Arsenal. Then supplemented with top quality from abroad. We should do the same thing.  
 

That’s £300m to finish 3rd in 2010.   With Hart, Kompany, Zabaleta already there. Decent saleable assets like Bellamy, Boateng and Nigel De Jong.  
 

 

Best case scenario. We spend £300m over 2 years in 2022-4, we’ll finish 8th.  We need to be aggressive. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with your assessment of that era, but I disagree that what worked then will work now. As you said yourself, Villa were challenging for 5th. Where as now, Arsenal and Man Utd look likely to finish 5th and 6th.

 

As for weakening the "top 6" clubs, how do you suggest we do that? 130m for Harry Kane, who most probably wouldn't move to us? Why go after, say Bruno Fernandes or Odegard for example when we have already proven we can go to the French league and pay half the price for comparable players.

 

IMO, the elephant in the room is our commercial power. Right now we are financially weakened by having shite sponsors, no business direction (because of ashley) and very little coming into the club from other avenues.

 

My guess, and it's just a guess, is that our new owners have a two stage plan. Phase one is moving the club up the league within the confines of FFP, whilst building a massive commercial model, spending on infrastructure etc.  Once we get into Europe and start showing that we mean business, we can start going after big hitters, in the way that City took Sterling off Liverpool.

 

We have to prove to good players that this is a place to come and play football and we have already started that process.

[STM]

FWIW, you can absolutely be smart with money, whilst also being ambitious. Liverpool selling Coutinho and using the money to buy the best CB and best GK in PL is an example of that.

 

Salah and KDB are largely regarded as the two best players in the league but neither were on the radars of other top clubs, both had been let go by Chelsea and had scars next to their names to some degree. Both Liverpool and City pulled masterstrokes by ignoring their past.

[macphisto]

3 minutes ago, STM said:

FWIW, you can absolutely be smart with money, whilst also being ambitious. Liverpool selling Coutinho and using the money to buy the best CB and best GK in PL is an example of that.

 

Salah and KDB are largely regarded as the two best players in the league but neither were on the radars of other top clubs, both had been let go by Chelsea and had scars next to their names to some degree. Both Liverpool and City pulled masterstrokes by ignoring their past.

KDB was on the radar of a lot of top clubs back then. He went to Man City for over £50 million 7 years ago. That would easily be £100 million+ now.

[STM]

7 minutes ago, macphisto said:

KDB was on the radar of a lot of top clubs back then. He went to Man City for over £50 million 7 years ago. That would easily be £100 million+ now.

Fair point.

[Ikon]

I want us to go for genuinely quality, but players that have not hit their ceiling yet. Players that will grow with us and hopefully get stronger each season going forward. Instead of signing a player now that is of good quality but will need to be replaced because we’re looking to move into next phase. Doing it this way will mean that we don’t have to replace too many players every season as the current ones will grow and become better too. 
 

Obviously won’t be easy to get every signing right but I hope we go for quality with potential to grow another level or two within time. Most importantly players with the right character, ones that want to improve and have hunger, no matter what age. 
 

it’s just not possible to buy 100% ready and proven world class players for each position and hope it clicks. 1. It’s expensive as fuck. 2. Might not be the best way to build great team spirit, with too many “stars” and egos.

 

Another thing I like about quality+potential is that they will be part of the build up, long term, the whole identity created within time. Like winning mentality and team spirit. Even though they haven’t come through the academy it will be a bit more like us developing them into our own stars, instead of buying too many finished articles. Having said all this I’m not against an old head or two. Sounds like a lot of drivel as I type while thinking many different scenarios at the same time. Hope you get the idea. 

[Guest HTT II]

9 minutes ago, Ikon said:

I want us to go for genuinely quality, but players that have not hit their ceiling yet. Players that will grow with us and hopefully get stronger each season going forward. Instead of signing a player now that is of good quality but will need to be replaced because we’re looking to move into next phase. Doing it this way will mean that we don’t have to replace too many players every season as the current ones will grow and become better too. 
 

Obviously won’t be easy to get every signing right but I hope we go for quality with potential to grow another level or two within time. Most importantly players with the right character, ones that want to improve and have hunger, no matter what age. 
 

it’s just not possible to buy 100% ready and proven world class players for each position and hope it clicks. 1. It’s expensive as fuck. 2. Might not be the best way to build great team spirit, with too many “stars” and egos.

 

Another thing I like about quality+potential is that they will be part of the build up, long term, the whole identity created within time. Like winning mentality and team spirit. Even though they haven’t come through the academy it will be a bit more like us developing them into our own stars, instead of buying too many finished articles. Having said all this I’m not against an old head or two. Sounds like a lot of drivel as I type while thinking many different scenarios at the same time. Hope you get the idea. 

We can do a bit of both surely? I wouldn’t mind Lingard for example and even Eriksen who I’ve previously stated I’d rather not. I think going forward once we have a DOF etc. in and with funds available which I’m sure will be there to be spent, we will be able to afford a varied range of signings like we have done with Trippier who is over 30. I’d like us to splash big on 2-3 high end real quality attacking players and maybe the odd freebie and some squad players. I’d hate us to go after a Pogba, however, but a Coutinho I wouldn’t say no to. I think they will look to get the balance right and I’m confident that will happen.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by HTT II

[Ikon]

Yeah I wouldn’t mind an old head or two like I said. As long as they are at the club for the right reasons. As in not only for the money. They have to be driven and good characters. Buy into what we are trying to do, collectively. 

[Guest HTT II]

Just now, Ikon said:

Yeah I wouldn’t mind an old head or two like I said. As long as they are at the club for the right reasons. As in not only for the money. They have to be driven and good characters. Buy into what we are trying to do, collectively. 

Agreed, I don’t think Howe would welcome say a Pogba anyway or even a Bale. 

[Ikon]

Just now, HTT II said:

Agreed, I don’t think Howe would welcome say a Pogba anyway or even a Bale. 

Yeah it seems like he/they know the importance of it. I like that. Because money alone doesn’t guarantee anything like we have seen many times before in football. 

[Guest HTT II]

Just now, Ikon said:

Yeah it seems like he/they know the importance of it. I like that. Because money alone doesn’t guarantee anything like we have seen many times before in football. 

Aye, just look at Man Utd and Everton for example. I think we will likely take a hit on some players who turn out to be expensive flops, big names or not, but that’s par for the course in football and the same at any club. The key is to not sign loads of those kind of players.

[midds]

Now they've actually persevered and bought the club and thrown enough cash around in January to secure safety I think they'll have a right pop at it this summer. I get the impression they're not for fucking around and giving it a decade to start challenging, I think they'll go for it and make up as much distance as soon as possible and if that means a net spend of £150m+ then I think they'll do it. Why wouldn't they? Wait there, frustrated for 2 years to piss about with £60-80m windows? Don't think that's their style. They want it and they want it asap. And they'll pay to get it. 

[gbandit]

It’s a good time to strike as well, Man U in disarray, Chelsea needing to totally restructure, Arsenal still hilarious, Spurs with a lot of debt hampering them. We could make serious ground up to these clubs if we spend big and get the right players in. I’m starting to feel like a top 8 finish is very realistic 

[midds]

Just now, gbandit said:

It’s a good time to strike as well, Man U in disarray, Chelsea needing to totally restructure, Arsenal still hilarious, Spurs with a lot of debt hampering them. We could make serious ground up to these clubs if we spend big and get the right players in. I’m starting to feel like a top 8 finish is very realistic 

Keeping a lid on potential budgets and expectations is also 100% the right way to do it too. We're always going to have to pay through the nose for the players we want but advertising the fact we've got loads to spend would add even more to the price. 

[Guest HTT II]

We should be aiming for the top 6 next season, the gap isn’t that big in reality. We narrowly lost to Chelsea and got hammered off Spurs, even now we are somewhere in between those two after years of neglect and Bruce and being bottom 3 in January. Spend big and spend well and we should be aiming top 6 and why not!

[Ikon]

2 minutes ago, gbandit said:

It’s a good time to strike as well, Man U in disarray, Chelsea needing to totally restructure, Arsenal still hilarious, Spurs with a lot of debt hampering them. We could make serious ground up to these clubs if we spend big and get the right players in. I’m starting to feel like a top 8 finish is very realistic 

 

This.