Dan Ashworth (now working for Manchester United)

[gdm]

4 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Problem is with folk like Ashworth is you don't necessarily see the fruits of his labour. He's established nine (I think) departments within the club, including youth and women's teams, he was also big on mental health and brought staff in for that area.

 

Definitely more than an operational man than anything else. Fair to say he was probably here long enough to put down decent foundations and give the ownership a good idea of where it needs to be going.

 

I wonder if we're looking at a technical director to assist with that sort of stuff.

I’ll happily hold my hands up and say im

wrong if that’s the case. 

[KaKa]

44 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Why does he get the blame for manager friction? Maybe Eddie's too big for his boots? 

 

You were able to sell players to get out of that hole that Ashworth had a huge part in bringing to the club. 

 

And players signed under him are some of your most expensive assets. Isak, Botman, Gordon etc. 

 

But nah, Ashworth did nothing.

 

And aye, Brighton are doing fine because of the structure he put in place. That's exactly what we want. not a short term fix. 

 

 

 

 

Ashworth will be great as far as sorting out all the departments at the club that play a role in the footballing side and ensuring they work together and the whole structure is cohesive. That's what he does.

 

He's not a recruitment guy though, which is why you are after a head of recruitment. The players you mention we're driven by Nickson who was our recruitment guy, and Howe.

 

I believe the friction with Dan came because it seemed he was looking to address the PSR issue by moving on key first teamers, and there was some dissatisfaction with his work in selling or moving on players that the manager was happier to let go.

 

In the end it worked out because we kept all our key players and we've brought in someone that is more recruitment focused that can better deal with overseeing that whole side, which we need.

[Kid Icarus]

Whatever Ashworth's strengths were, they certainly weren't hugely noticeable when he was here beyond his role as a facilitator for others. The hub and spoke role he reiterated constantly.

 

If he was here I'd be more than happy with that, but him wanting to leave immediately made me happy that he was. I said so at the time and still think so now, but having that many jobs in such a short space of time at his level of responsibility is a massive red flag imo. 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 17:01 by Kid Icarus

[lovejoy]

Any chance we can lock this thread?

[Froggy]

11 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Whatever Ashworth's strengths were, they certainly weren't hugely noticeable when he was here beyond his role as a facilitator for others. The hub and spoke role he reiterated constantly.

 

If he was here I'd be more than happy with that, but him wanting to leave immediately made me happy that he was. I said so at the time and still think so now, but having that many jobs in such a short space of time is a massive red flag imo. 

 

He's had the same amount of jobs as Mitchell since 17/18. Mitchell has had more jobs in a much shorter period of time over both their careers. 

 

Does that concern you about Mitchell? 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 17:10 by Froggy

[MagMal]

4 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

He's had the same amount of jobs as Mitchell since 17/18. Mitchell has had more jobs in a much shorter period of time over both their careers. 

 

Does that concern you about Mitchell? 

 

 

 

No chance it is all gravy, big Paul doesn't even own a Flymo😅

[KaKa]

20 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Whatever Ashworth's strengths were, they certainly weren't hugely noticeable when he was here beyond his role as a facilitator for others. The hub and spoke role he reiterated constantly.

 

If he was here I'd be more than happy with that, but him wanting to leave immediately made me happy that he was. I said so at the time and still think so now, but having that many jobs in such a short space of time at his level of responsibility is a massive red flag imo. 

 

 

 

 

Mitchell is just a better fit for us I think.

 

We needed someone with more experience on the recruitment side that could better navigate that with Nickson and Howe, and direct the whole thing.

 

From everything that has come out, I get the impression that Ashworth wasn't as strong in that area, and there wasn't alignment there with the manager and Nickson.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 17:19 by KaKa

[Dr.Spaceman]

I still reckon Nickson gets nowhere near the credit he deserves.

[Kid Icarus]

21 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

He's had the same amount of jobs as Mitchell since 17/18. Mitchell has had more jobs in a much shorter period of time over both their careers. 

 

Does that concern you about Mitchell? 

 

 

 

 

He was at Monaco for 3 years and left 8 months ago. Slightly different circumstances to Ashworth where in the space of 2 years he's been on gardening leave twice and at 3 clubs. 

 

In isolation I would prefer it if Mitchell had been at fewer clubs, though it's fair to class the RB clubs as one job imo. The Cercle Brugge one is a head scratcher.

 

EDIT: Cercle Brugge are a feeder club for Monaco. No, definitely not worried about the jobs now, he's essentially had 2 employers since leaving Spurs 6 and a half years ago.

 

 

Edited Thursday at 17:32 by Kid Icarus

[simonsays]

He'll be very good at Man U.  They are seemingly bloated in all departments and he will be streamlining them, while leaving the recruitment to others.  For all I hate the way Ratcliffe is going about things it's churlish to try and suggest he isn't bringing in good people

[KaKa]

4 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

I still reckon Nickson gets nowhere near the credit he deserves.

 

I appreciate Nickson.

 

Apparently Bruno, Botman and Isak where some of the higher rated players in his database that he had been following for a while.

 

I think he won Howe over pretty early on too. We had lots of stories early on about how the new owners recognised his value early and we're keen to retain him.

 

It does seem his current setup is more traditional scouting though, and so there's definitely a need for someone to modernize things a bit, and Mitchell in one of the videos talked about aligning the data driven approach with traditional scouting for a more data informed approach.

 

All seems to make sense.

[KaKa]

Just now, simonsays said:

He'll be very good at Man U.  They are seemingly bloated in all departments and he will be streamlining them, while leaving the recruitment to others.  For all I hate the way Ratcliffe is going about things it's churlish to try and suggest he isn't bringing in good people

 

Yeah, they seem a complete mess behind the scenes, and he'll sort that all out for them. He'll also get a recruitment guy in eventually too.

 

I'm just happy we got a change to be honest, because I think we needed something different, in someone that also had more of a background in scouting and recruitment to strengthen and modernize that area.

[SAK]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

 

Nah.  Ashworth's track record speaks for itself, and you wouldn't be going anywhere near Mitchell only we poached wee Dan. We have your first choice sporting director. I'm completely confident in the executive structure we have in place now. 

 

Would have been nice to have Mitchell on board for recruitment, as he's found some gems. Nothing even close to Caicedo for £4m, Mitoma for £2.6m etc. but he's still very good. 

Nothing to do with Ashworth, those players were found using data analysis from Brighton owner Tony Blooms company Starlizard. Old chum no longer has that access.

 

https://m.sundayworld.com/sport/soccer/how-starlizard-is-giving-brighton-the-edge-over-their-premier-league-rivals/a1602187918.html

[SAK]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

We've gone from Ashworth is best in class to liability.

 

 

I love us.

He is best in class for setting structures and aligning departments, and probably is what Man U need.

 

He has high level football contacts and so can deal with negotiations and the political side of football. What he is not is some super scout which it reads like Froggy is alluding he is.

 

He has set up structures for us and recruited for various departments which is the value he added for us. Now those are set up Mitchell can run with them or tinker as he see’s fit. I won’t disregard what Ashworth did as he had to start from zero as we were so hollowed out but it’s not anything a competent DOF wouldn’t be able to do.

 

In conclusion did a good job for us setting things up,  had he stayed would have done a good job ticking over but nothing dramatic, Mitchell can do the same, Ashworth’s value is his administration skill, he’s no super scout.

[gdm]

FWIW claims in here we got £10m for Ashworth

[Froggy]

13 minutes ago, SAK said:

Nothing to do with Ashworth, those players were found using data analysis from Brighton owner Tony Blooms company Starlizard. Old chum no longer has that access.

 

https://m.sundayworld.com/sport/soccer/how-starlizard-is-giving-brighton-the-edge-over-their-premier-league-rivals/a1602187918.html

 

I know you didn't just use Sunday World as a source. 

 

Just read The Athletic article man. 

[Bunk Moreland]

7 minutes ago, gdm said:

FWIW claims in here we got £10m for Ashworth

 

Tidy sum that. Especially when the replacement is free

[SAK]

45 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

I know you didn't just use Sunday World as a source. 

 

Just read The Athletic article man. 

Others say the same, that Brightons ability to unearth talent was due to Starlizard and their team of mathematicians. https://archive.ph/EkiFX
 

Not diminishing his abilities as a a football administrator, in another post I state he’s excellent at that just not a talent scout.

 

edit: read the athletic article and pretty much states what I said in my other post.
 

 

 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 18:53 by SAK

[gdm]

Yasir Al-Rumayyan was adamant that Ashworth would only be allowed to leave on Newcastle’s terms, as he felt personally affronted by the professions of ignorance, a feeling exacerbated by what he regarded as Sir Jim Ratcliffe’s insulting first compensation offer of £2m.

 @MattHughesMedia

[Froggy]

11 minutes ago, gdm said:

@MattHughesMedia

 

Next. 

[gdm]

Just now, Froggy said:

 

Next. 

 I don’t know who it is but it seems you don’t like any source 

[Froggy]

3 minutes ago, gdm said:

 I don’t know who it is but it seems you don’t like any source 

 

Generally dislike The Daily Mail and The Sunday World.