Colos Short and Curlies Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, Froggy said: The word is that Todibo is one of our top targets anyway. This was before INEOS. Apparently has a very reasonable release clause. Probably just chase De Jong all summer again. release clause should mean zip when it comes to intra group transfers. Let Liverpool set the market value for that one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 9 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Not true. So you reckon that the very best up and coming global talent (17-21 year olds) is looking at Man Utd and thinking I'd rather go there than City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Bayern, Real Madrid, PSG etc ? They'd almost certainly go to Man Utd ahead of NUFC or Villa, but these elite young players have grown up in an era where Man Utd win very little and their club culture / identity has been awful Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee_Johnny Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 42 minutes ago, Colos Short and Curlies said: Head Coach isn’t he? Point stands. Would you want to craft a team with what you’re given or with what you choose? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 9 minutes ago, Coffee_Johnny said: Point stands. Would you want to craft a team with what you’re given or with what you choose? The latter obviously, but if you sign up to be a coach you cant complain if you don't get to decide on the managerial bits. Of course we don't know the terms of his remit/contract but its also fair to say his stock with the board won't be quite as high now as it was the summer of 22 or 23 when it comes to the remit of Ashworth's replacement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sushimonster85 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) Managers having complete control of transfers was more the norm when it was considered hasty if you sacked a manager after a couple of years. When the likes of Clough and Ferguson had total control over everything that happened at the club. I totally get Sporting Directors/DoFs etc now. There does need to be someone with an overarching strategy. A club should be deciding on it's principles/recruitement strategy/even general style of play and building appropriately. This should include being able to change managers with minimal desruption. We're a little different in that Howe and his core team were in place long before the sporting director and, as countless articles have pointed out, established a power base far beyond what most other head coaches have at other sides. Not dissing Howe at all, feel there have been countless positives (just look at his first 18 months) to this. But it has now put us in this odd position where we will be looking for a Sporting Director who suits what is here now, which has largely been put in place by the head coach who, in theory, a SD could decide to sack. I love Howe, and I think he deserves a crack at going again next season. But I do worry for him with a new sporting director coming in, especially with the likes of Tuchel available in the Summer. Edited February 21 by sushimonster85 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee_Johnny Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, Colos Short and Curlies said: The latter obviously, but if you sign up to be a coach you cant complain if you don't get to decide on the managerial bits. Of course we don't know the terms of his remit/contract but its also fair to say his stock with the board won't be quite as high now as it was the summer of 22 or 23 when it comes to the remit of Ashworth's replacement Hopefully no change to remit. That is the kind of shit—removal of influence—that can signal the beginning of the end. Think Keegan 2nd term. You have to trust and defer to your experts, if you want them fully engaged to ‘the project’. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 11 minutes ago, Coffee_Johnny said: Hopefully no change to remit. That is the kind of shit—removal of influence—that can signal the beginning of the end. Think Keegan 2nd term. You have to trust and defer to your experts, if you want them fully engaged to ‘the project’. But the 'expert' in charge of the footballing side of things will be the Sporting Director. As Sushimonster points out we are in a weird position where the manager was in place before the SD and therefore had to play a dual role in shaping the transfer activity and overall style of play that the club was to follow in the first 2 windows. It is right and proper now that if we bring in a good SD then Howe's influence over them will diminish, even if just through having more people at the table. Howe will leave at some point, merging into the right structure now will minimise the chances of a totally unsuitable manager coming in after him (like Kenny following KK or Souness following Bobby) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, bobbydazzla said: So you reckon that the very best up and coming global talent (17-21 year olds) is looking at Man Utd and thinking I'd rather go there than City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Bayern, Real Madrid, PSG etc ? They'd almost certainly go to Man Utd ahead of NUFC or Villa, but these elite young players have grown up in an era where Man Utd win very little and their club culture / identity has been awful What's the etc.? There are few clubs with a big a pull as Man Utd at any recruitment level. They pay tremendously well too - probably more than Arsenal and Liverpool which will have a big influence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 27 minutes ago, sushimonster85 said: Managers having complete control of transfers was more the norm when it was considered hasty if you sacked a manager after a couple of years. When the likes of Clough and Ferguson had total control over everything that happened at the club. I totally get Sporting Directors/DoFs etc now. There does need to be someone with an overarching strategy. A club should be deciding on it's principles/recruitement strategy/even general style of play and building appropriately. This should include being able to change managers with minimal desruption. We're a little different in that Howe and his core team were in place long before the sporting director and, as countless articles have pointed out, established a power base far beyond what most other head coaches have at other sides. Not dissing Howe at all, feel there have been countless positives (just look at his first 18 months) to this. But it has now put us in this odd position where we will be looking for a Sporting Director who suits what is here now, which has largely been put in place by the head coach who, in theory, a SD could decide to sack. I love Howe, and I think he deserves a crack at going again next season. But I do worry for him with a new sporting director coming in, especially with the likes of Tuchel available in the Summer. I don't worry for Howe from the likes of Tuchel. We would still follow the Brentford, Brighton, Liverpool, RB, Leverkusen, Dortmund type model of buying young players with potential (Gordon, Livra)) and under-the-radar players (Pope). That's the overall profile. The specifics (technical vs physical for example) might change aye but not the wider profile. Howe fits the general profile while a "super club manager" like Tuchel hasn't had that type of role for some time and would probably want closer to the finished article. We'll be looking for the next Alonso, DeZerbi etc. types. Young with something to prove. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon25 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Easy to say given the context and circumstances, but when City were making a play to sit at the top table, they employed Txiki Begiristain. Manure are pinching Dan Ashworth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 22 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: What's the etc.? There are few clubs with a big a pull as Man Utd at any recruitment level. They pay tremendously well too - probably more than Arsenal and Liverpool which will have a big influence. etc. is other big clubs in decent leagues who are regularly winning / competing for league titles and the champions league trophy. I couldn't be arsed to name them all And with regards to wages, if you're top tier global talent aged 17-21 and would rather earn more money than compete for major silverware, then I'd argue that you're not top tier global talent as your mindset is wrong. It's the type of player that goes to Chelsea to sit on the bench earning millions of billions but not progressing. And Man Utd also pay too much because they're not the all conquering side they used to be and have become less attractive than their peers. The current era Man Utd aren't getting anywhere near the title or a champs league trophy. They need a massive overhaul of the squad and club culture Edited February 21 by bobbydazzla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, bobbydazzla said: And with regards to wages, if you're top tier global talent aged 17-21 and would rather earn more money than compete for major silverware, then I'd argue that you're not top tier global talent as your mindset is wrong What about Hojlund? Considered a top talent. Just turned 21. Lots of clubs after him including PSG who you mentioned. He's on a modest wage. Bad mindset? 3 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: The current era Man Utd aren't getting anywhere near the title or a champs league trophy. They need a massive overhaul of the squad and club culture It's never as far away as you think. Two or three good windows with the right personel and you can challenge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 7 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: etc. is other big clubs in decent leagues who are regularly winning / competing for league titles and the champions league trophy. I couldn't be arsed to name them all And with regards to wages, if you're top tier global talent aged 17-21 and would rather earn more money than compete for major silverware, then I'd argue that you're not top tier global talent as your mindset is wrong. It's the type of player that goes to Chelsea to sit on the bench earning millions of billions but not progressing. And Man Utd also pay too much because they're not the all conquering side they used to be and have become less attractive than their peers. The current era Man Utd aren't getting anywhere near the title or a champs league trophy. They need a massive overhaul of the squad and club culture There are 6 of them with similar resources and stature in Europe. They've been a shambles for a decade and still have excellent prospects coming through or signing them at a young age. Their biggest issue in that age bracket is domestic. Chelsea and City pick them up from even younger and London is a youth football super city which favours the local clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Froggy said: What about Hojlund? Considered a top talent. Just turned 21. Lots of clubs after him including PSG who you mentioned. He's on a modest wage. Bad mindset? It's never as far away as you think. Two or three good windows with the right personel and you can challenge. That the same Hojlund who barely scored a goal until a few weeks ago ? With the scale and reach of the club you'll still attract decent young players but the best of the best isn't looking at your recent history and thinking, yeah, that's the place where my career will thrive And agree on your second point, it wouldn't be too difficult for Man Utd to rebuild compared to what NUFC are trying to do, given we're a team with little pedigree. But as it stands right now you're way behind your peer group in terms of attractiveness Edited February 21 by bobbydazzla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 3 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: That the same Hojlund who barely scored a goal until a few weeks ago ? With the scale and reach of the club you'll still attract decent young players but the best of the best isn't looking at your recent history and thinking, yeah, that's the place where my career will thrive And agree on your second point, it wouldn't be too difficult for Man Utd to rebuild compared to what NUFC are trying to do, given we're a team with little pedigree. But as it stands right now you're way behind your peer group in terms of attractiveness Hojlund has 13 goals this season as a 21 year old in a new league. And he's still joint top scorer in the Champions League. And he just broke the record for the youngest player to score in 6 consecutive league games. Aye that Hojlund. It was clear from the beginning he's an excellent player. Just needs the service. Unfortunately our wingers are some of the greediest fuckers in world football. I agree there are more attractive options right now, but we're certainly not way behind like you suggest. A lot of players would still choose to join us over some of the teams mentioned IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, Froggy said: Hojlund has 13 goals this season as a 21 year old in a new league. And he's still joint top scorer in the Champions League. And he just broke the record for the youngest player to score in 6 consecutive league games. Aye that Hojlund. It was clear from the beginning he's an excellent player. Just needs the service. Unfortunately our wingers are some of the greediest fuckers in world football. I agree there are more attractive options right now, but we're certainly not way behind like you suggest. A lot of players would still choose to join us over some of the teams mentioned IMO. Previously Willock I guess? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, Shearergol said: Previously Willock I guess? Yeah. I would never have guessed that. Was that during his purple streak on loan at you? Lingard-esque. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Willock is decent mind when fit, which he never fucking is. He also seems to have to play himself into confidence so has a shakey few games and if he isn't dropped then delivers which is not ideal for someone so often in and out a team Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Also on Man U, yeah a few decent transfer windows with clear direction and not spunking everything on an overhyped player and they'll be fine. I am not convinced by Ten Hag though. There seems a real lack of clear headed thinking there, hence Martial still being there for some reason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiston Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, Tiresias said: Willock is decent mind when fit, which he never fucking is. He also seems to have to play himself into confidence so has a shakey few games and if he isn't dropped then delivers which is not ideal for someone so often in and out a team Think it's more play himself into fitness, especially with how often he's out. Bloke's barely ever match fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, Tiresias said: Also on Man U, yeah a few decent transfer windows with clear direction and not spunking everything on an overhyped player and they'll be fine. I am not convinced by Ten Hag though. There seems a real lack of clear headed thinking there, hence Martial still being there for some reason I think Ten Hag is as clear headed as they come. He's been asking for a Martial replacement since he came in. Martial has bags of ability as well. Just never fit. A small part of me will be sad to see him go in the summer. There was a backlash whenever Ten Hag tried to sign Arnautovic as a backup striker, but looking back on it I'd say he was a far more reliable option than Martial. He probably should have been backed if that's all the budget would allow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, Tiresias said: Also on Man U, yeah a few decent transfer windows with clear direction and not spunking everything on an overhyped player and they'll be fine. I am not convinced by Ten Hag though. There seems a real lack of clear headed thinking there, hence Martial still being there for some reason They had a policy of renewing vastly inflated contracts to avoid players leaving for free. I think that is what happened with Martial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Froggy said: Hojlund has 13 goals this season as a 21 year old in a new league. And he's still joint top scorer in the Champions League. And he just broke the record for the youngest player to score in 6 consecutive league games. Aye that Hojlund. It was clear from the beginning he's an excellent player. Just needs the service. Unfortunately our wingers are some of the greediest fuckers in world football. I agree there are more attractive options right now, but we're certainly not way behind like you suggest. A lot of players would still choose to join us over some of the teams mentioned IMO. Joe Willock was the previous holder of the record Hojlund just broke and Joe's not top tier global talent If you were a top tier young talent why would you join Man Utd these days ? Genuine question. You'd have to be sold a dream of being a key part of a rebuild Similar to the pitch we'll be making to 2nd tier talent probably Edited February 21 by bobbydazzla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: Joe Willock was the previous holder of the record Hojlund just broke and Joe's not top tier global talent If you were a top tier young talent why would you join Man Utd these days ? Genuine question. You'd have to be sold a dream of being a key part of a rebuild I'm not going to sit here and try and justify why a footballer would want to join a club like Manchester United. It doesn't really need explanation and me attempting to do so will only be seen as arrogant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 11 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: If you were a top tier young talent why would you join Man Utd these days ? I know nee-one likes them - but come on, it’s Man Utd. No matter how much of a mess they are (relatively speaking) it’s still Man Yoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now