Dan Ashworth (on gardening leave)

[CheikBoom]

4 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Who knew that a sporting director could cause so much fume.

 

Offering £2m is as hilarious as asking for £20m. It'll get done somewhere in the middle.

Its the constant coverage in the press and comments by Radcliffe which is causing so much aggro IMO. 

 

He'd do well stop these interviews and just getting on with the job. 

[Dr Jinx]

14 minutes ago, Dokko said:

We should take legal action against them for the cost of his wages (and fee we paid Brighton, plus replacement costs) over the gardening period. They clearly unsettled him behind the scenes, tapped him up and publicly courted him without any intention to pay a reasonable rate.

 

Reckon we'd win that hands down. 

 

 

 

Tapped up (in an illegal sense) is pretty much limited to sports players. The practice happens in the business world as standard pretty much, it’s just that for specific sports industries like football and more specifically F1, people that are privy to technical data and long term plans are also a massive liability when it comes to this.

 

It’s certainly not illegal to approach someone who already has a job.

 

Now this interest from Man Utd has been going on so long I would hope that the club essentially removed him from most of the proceedings as soon as the rumours began, but he’ll still know enough to use that going into a new venture.

[King Billy]

2 minutes ago, CheikBoom said:

Its the constant coverage in the press and comments by Radcliffe which is causing so much aggro IMO. 

 

He'd do well stop these interviews and just getting on with the job. 

 

Agreed.

[Chris_R]

11 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

The practice happens in the business world as standard pretty much

 

And businesses could probably sue if they wished. But for the likes of us, we're not worth suing over. My modest salary isn't worth a legal battle.

[Joelinton7]

9 hours ago, Sima said:

Thought I’d take a look at RedCafe.  Entitlement is off the charts.

Paraphrasing them. “The club (NUFC) are dragging the Ashworth thing out to distract fans from the “shit” season we’ve had (we’ve come a long way if 6th, potentially 5th is a bad season ) but but also the owners are spoilt brats who don’t know the true meaning of money and are acting like this on a whim. That whim being “distract fans from the shit season”. Throw in some standard misogyny towards Amanda Staveley and it about sums up their thoughts. 

 

I just find it funny that they’re getting so worked up over Dan Ashworth and Jason Wilcox as though they’re signing prime Ronaldo/Messi. I couldn’t tell you what DA has done in his two years at NUFC. A lot of the media (also Eddie) have said he didn’t change much as that would have been too disruptive and he just carried on the work that had been implemented before his arrival. I know he can’t negotiate contracts for our top players, meaning our owners have to take over. I know he hasn’t brought top class scouting knowledge (that was Tony Bloom’s system at Brighton). They’re really quite misinformed about what he does, as we were. Seems more of a PR man than anything. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24 by Joelinton7

[King Billy]

13 minutes ago, Joelinton7 said:

I couldn’t tell you what DA has done in his two years at NUFC.

 

"What has Ashworth achieved at Newcastle?

 

A decent amount, considering he has been there less than two years.

 

Essentially, his job has been to shape the overall footballing vision. While Eales heads the off-field area of the business, the sporting side is very much Ashworth’s domain and he has set about ensuring Newcastle have the means to deliver an “attacking, winning brand of football, to get supporters inspired and excited”.

 

The sporting director conducted a six-month audit of the club once he arrived then presented his findings to the board, having listened to Newcastle’s heads of department to find out what they believed needed to change before acting.

 

He established a host of new departments, viewing himself as the “centre of the wheel” containing nine spokes (more than in any of his previous roles at West Brom, the FA or Brighton): men’s first team, women’s first team, player recruitment, loans, academy, medical and sports science, analysis, psychology and mental wellbeing, and football operations.

 

There has been a modernisation of Newcastle from top to bottom, an upgrading of the academy, the integration of the women’s team into the club and then turning them into a professional outfit, a bolstering of previous skeleton-staff levels across the board, and the introduction of new departments and fresh senior roles, such as recruiting Dr Ian Mitchell, their first head of psychology, last October.

 

Ashworth, alongside Staveley and Ghodoussi, also oversaw a £10million upgrade of the training ground, while his expertise has been offered as the club search for a site to build a new state-of-the-art facility that could house the men’s and women’s teams, and the academy.

 

Qualification for the Champions League also came at the end of Ashworth’s first full season, less than 18 months after Newcastle were in the Premier League’s relegation zone. That, however, was primarily masterminded by head coach Howe extracting a dramatic improvement from his squad.

 

While Ashworth has also overseen expenditure of around £300million during his four transfer windows — including the impressive additions of Anthony Gordon, Harvey Barnes and Alexander Isak, the latter a club-record £60m signing, and the much-discussed deal to bring Sandro Tonali from AC Milan — Howe has been the most prominent voice in recruitment decisions, and not all of those acquisitions were led or concluded by the sporting director.

 

The academy and recruitment departments are prime examples of Ashworth’s impact. Both were previously funded and staffed at levels far below the Premier League average; they have swelled over the past two seasons, with the number of academy personnel growing by around 50 per cent and the budget increasing substantially. The scouting operation has been bolstered with additions including Paul Midgley, the head of youth recruitment, and Marcel Bout, a senior scout, plus the introduction of new roles such as position-specific analysts and the appointment of talent-spotters across the world, including in South America and eastern Europe."

 

 

 

[TheBrownBottle]

18 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

"What has Ashworth achieved at Newcastle?

 

A decent amount, considering he has been there less than two years.

 

Essentially, his job has been to shape the overall footballing vision. While Eales heads the off-field area of the business, the sporting side is very much Ashworth’s domain and he has set about ensuring Newcastle have the means to deliver an “attacking, winning brand of football, to get supporters inspired and excited”.

 

The sporting director conducted a six-month audit of the club once he arrived then presented his findings to the board, having listened to Newcastle’s heads of department to find out what they believed needed to change before acting.

 

He established a host of new departments, viewing himself as the “centre of the wheel” containing nine spokes (more than in any of his previous roles at West Brom, the FA or Brighton): men’s first team, women’s first team, player recruitment, loans, academy, medical and sports science, analysis, psychology and mental wellbeing, and football operations.

 

There has been a modernisation of Newcastle from top to bottom, an upgrading of the academy, the integration of the women’s team into the club and then turning them into a professional outfit, a bolstering of previous skeleton-staff levels across the board, and the introduction of new departments and fresh senior roles, such as recruiting Dr Ian Mitchell, their first head of psychology, last October.

 

Ashworth, alongside Staveley and Ghodoussi, also oversaw a £10million upgrade of the training ground, while his expertise has been offered as the club search for a site to build a new state-of-the-art facility that could house the men’s and women’s teams, and the academy.

 

Qualification for the Champions League also came at the end of Ashworth’s first full season, less than 18 months after Newcastle were in the Premier League’s relegation zone. That, however, was primarily masterminded by head coach Howe extracting a dramatic improvement from his squad.

 

While Ashworth has also overseen expenditure of around £300million during his four transfer windows — including the impressive additions of Anthony Gordon, Harvey Barnes and Alexander Isak, the latter a club-record £60m signing, and the much-discussed deal to bring Sandro Tonali from AC Milan — Howe has been the most prominent voice in recruitment decisions, and not all of those acquisitions were led or concluded by the sporting director.

 

The academy and recruitment departments are prime examples of Ashworth’s impact. Both were previously funded and staffed at levels far below the Premier League average; they have swelled over the past two seasons, with the number of academy personnel growing by around 50 per cent and the budget increasing substantially. The scouting operation has been bolstered with additions including Paul Midgley, the head of youth recruitment, and Marcel Bout, a senior scout, plus the introduction of new roles such as position-specific analysts and the appointment of talent-spotters across the world, including in South America and eastern Europe."

 

 

 

You forgot to add that the physio and sports science depts are filled with his recruitment choices.  And given our relatively injury-free season, you’d have to give Ashworth all the credit on that front

[Geordie Ahmed]

I don't understand why people are keen on dismissing what Ashworth does

 

Slagging him off for not being loyal etc is one thing but saying you don't know what he does or he's done nothing is absurd 

 

We didn't pay to get him just for a laugh and Man U don't want him just for a laugh either

 

Now, Man U are absolutely taking the piss thinking they can get him on the cheap and we should absolutely push back on that but he's clearly good at what he does

 

Having said that, there's no doubt others that can do a good job so hopefully we can get a good replacement sorted asap

[TheBrownBottle]

15 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

I don't understand why people are keen on dismissing what Ashworth does

 

Slagging him off for not being loyal etc is one thing but saying you don't know what he does or he's done nothing is absurd 

 

We didn't pay to get him just for a laugh and Man U don't want him just for a laugh either

 

Now, Man U are absolutely taking the piss thinking they can get him on the cheap and we should absolutely push back on that but he's clearly good at what he does

 

Having said that, there's no doubt others that can do a good job so hopefully we can get a good replacement sorted asap

Count me in the ranks of the non-plussed.  I think the man is an expert salesman, if nothing else.  He’s a delegator and an administrator.

[King Billy]

42 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

You forgot to add that the physio and sports science depts are filled with his recruitment choices.  And given our relatively injury-free season, you’d have to give Ashworth all the credit on that front

 

Or the manager for leaving capable players like Hall and Livramento on the bench while burning the legs off others.

 

It all depends on how you want to look at it.

[TheBrownBottle]

5 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Or the manager for leaving capable players like Hall and Livramento on the bench while burning the legs off others.

 

It all depends on how you want to look at it.

Hey, it could be a manager living with his sporting director’s recruitment strategy for all we know. 

[NG32]

 

Ashworth on gardening leave. 

[Tonalis Bookie]

FWIW, a deal suits us more than united, some of the comments here are vitriolic to the point they would rather us damage the club than do a deal. 

[gbandit]

Does it fuck suit us more than Man U. We’re going to have a replacement in for this window. Man U are a rudderless mess with empty pockets Jim coming in promising a brave new future. The more that they continue to suffer, the better for us climbing the league consistently. We need to be damaging the current richest clubs as much as possible. Every season that Chelsea, Man U and Spurs don’t get CL or European football makes it harder for them to remain powerhouses. Who cares about £5-10m if it seriously damages them and gives us better prospects going forward 

[Tonalis Bookie]

1 minute ago, gbandit said:

Does it fuck suit us more than Man U. We’re going to have a replacement in for this window. Man U are a rudderless mess with empty pockets Jim coming in promising a brave new future. The more that they continue to suffer, the better for us climbing the league consistently. We need to be damaging the current richest clubs as much as possible. Every season that Chelsea, Man U and Spurs don’t get CL or European football makes it harder for them to remain powerhouses. Who cares about £5-10m if it seriously damages them and gives us better prospects going forward 

 

This really doesnt take into consideration any of the actual consequences, intricacies of player movement or issues we could encounter by not doing a deal. Believe me, we should deal

[gbandit]

3 minutes ago, Tonalis Bookie said:

 

This really doesnt take into consideration any of the actual consequences, intricacies of player movement or issues we could encounter by not doing a deal. Believe me, we should deal

Intricacies of player movement? Issues we could encounter by not doing a deal? Please expand 

[Tonalis Bookie]

Let me lay a few points out that we need to consider and how it benefits us by doing a deal

• If united are smart (and they will be) they'll have applied to CAS and they will probably get their way
• A CAS hearing could be expedited and he be in place before the end of this window
• If we go to CAS and do not win, we have a precedent against us
• There is a significant chance we get much less than we want
• It may well void a number of terms we currently have
• We may actually end up losing out on what we could get and damage our own FFP
• We may not be able to hire an individual in place of DA whilst hes here
• If we deal we can delay a start date
• We can also implement terms on players that can & cannot be recruited as part of an expedited agreement
• We can protect information and hire a replacement quicker
• We can insert terms regarding any staff or other individuals that MUFC may wish to get from us
• We have the ability to control the situation going forward

All of this so United potentially wait a few months is damaging

[Keegans Export]

2 minutes ago, Tonalis Bookie said:

Let me lay a few points out that we need to consider and how it benefits us by doing a deal

• If united are smart (and they will be) they'll have applied to CAS and they will probably get their way
• A CAS hearing could be expedited and he be in place before the end of this window
• If we go to CAS and do not win, we have a precedent against us
• There is a significant chance we get much less than we want
• It may well void a number of terms we currently have
• We may actually end up losing out on what we could get and damage our own FFP
• We may not be able to hire an individual in place of DA whilst hes here
• If we deal we can delay a start date
• We can also implement terms on players that can & cannot be recruited as part of an expedited agreement
• We can protect information and hire a replacement quicker
• We can insert terms regarding any staff or other individuals that MUFC may wish to get from us
• We have the ability to control the situation going forward

All of this so United potentially wait a few months is damaging

Just out of interest, what makes you think CAS would override something that is presumably in Ashworth's contract?

Edit - also, "United" 

 

 

Edited April 24 by Keegans Export

[Tonalis Bookie]

1 minute ago, Keegans Export said:

Just out of interest, what makes you think CAS would override something that is presumably in Ashworth's contract?

Edit - also, "United" 

 

 

 

 

It may be in the contract but it comes down to 'reasonableness' - on average reasonableness is about 6 months. If he made NUFC aware of his intent to leave in January. by June he could be free to go. Any compensation owed will also be  limited by time passed and gardening leave conditions / reasonableness. If CAS say 2 years is too much, maybe its a year, he will have already served a number of months and we might have 4 or 5 months of finances owed then, to which out 20m is pointless. So we could lose out on all our bargaining positions for a few mil.

 

On Ashworths part it isnt great, but it's a job end of the day. He got the chance to go to a bigger club at a great time where he isnt financially hamstrung. Without fandom most of us do it, its business sadly and MUFC have a strong position when we look at it that way

 

also - From manchester so United is a given sadly 

[Nucasol]

6 minutes ago, Tonalis Bookie said:

 

All of this so United potentially wait a few months is damaging

 

You can make all the good points in the world but the moment you dropped that in it pisses all over them.

[KaKa]

5 hours ago, Froggy said:

Who knew that a sporting director could cause so much fume.

 

Offering £2m is as hilarious as asking for £20m. It'll get done somewhere in the middle.

 

Quite looking forward to your summer dealings. Think it's going to be jokes.

 

[gbandit]

Indeed, we’re not taking this line just to be dickheads, we’re going to have legal support backing up our decision in relation to his contract. If you think Man U offering a derisory £2m is going to fly well with CAS then fair enough, believe what you want. I’m struggling a bit with you, you wanted Howe out, have barely posted other than complaining about Howe, this is your line here and “United”. It’s not a good look is all I can say 

[FloydianMag]

13 minutes ago, Tonalis Bookie said:

 

This really doesnt take into consideration any of the actual consequences, intricacies of player movement or issues we could encounter by not doing a deal. Believe me, we should deal

For £2 million………get to fuck, and this isn’t a CAS issue it’s Employment Law, CAS doesn’t have jurisdiction.

[King Billy]

Just now, KaKa said:

Quite looking forward to your summer dealings. Think it's going to be jokes.

 

Aye Omar Berrada and Jason Wilcox don't have a clue what they're at.

[Tonalis Bookie]

1 minute ago, gbandit said:

Indeed, we’re not taking this line just to be dickheads, we’re going to have legal support backing up our decision in relation to his contract. If you think Man U offering a derisory £2m is going to fly well with CAS then fair enough, believe what you want. I’m struggling a bit with you, you wanted Howe out, have barely posted other than complaining about Howe, this is your line here and “United”. It’s not a good look is all I can say 

search dazzanufc1892, you can see my posting from 2009 if that helps.

 

I had to delete that when the new FIFA regs came in place that are now defunct. You may like them.

 

I know being the scenes issues, if you did, you'd see we have an elite Bielsa issue going on