Open Wide For Some Soccer! - Poch to the Yanks.

[Village Idiot]

Messi didn't get to where he is because he was born with the ability to play the game: he practiced day and night and picked-up the skills faster and better than almost everyone else. The greatest failing of soccer in the U.S. is that we don't instill the game from a very young age or encourage our young players to practice day and night.

 

And that's something he was born with, or at least instilled into him from a very early age. Stuff like focus, speed of thought, determination, etc... are traits than make or break athletes, not just long legs or arm reach. Pretty sure people like Xavi or Iniesta - certainly not physical portents - would have excelled at other team sports if football wasn't their choice.

 

A lot of your young players won't practice day and night because they don't think it's worth it putting football before other things at the moment.

 

That said, the MLS is certainly well run and on the long run it'll probably be able to attract and develop better talent. We're all dead in the long run though.

[Deuce]

MLS is one of the most rapidly growing leagues in the world. It's on par with most mid-level European leagues already. And it's only been around for 20 years.

 

It's extraordinarily well-run, more cash flows-in every year and the quality of play consistently improves. It'll be a top 5 league within the next 25-30 years, particularly if the major European leagues continue to play it fast and loose with their finances.

 

Great thing about the U.S. is that, being a country of 300 million people, we don't need our absolute finest athletes to choose the sport like European countries do. We still get fantastic athletes playing the game. American soccer players are already better athletes than the majority of world footballers, just not as technically proficient. But that's changing rapidly.

 

Frankly, it's laughable to think we'd be on top of the world if only the Kobe's and Jeter's had played soccer instead. There's no such thing as natural talent. Messi didn't get to where he is because he was born with the ability to play the game: he practiced day and night and picked-up the skills faster and better than almost everyone else. The greatest failing of soccer in the U.S. is that we don't instill the game from a very young age or encourage our young players to practice day and night.

 

Is this a joke, Deuce?

 

American footballers have always been lauded for their athletic ability. We may not have the most gifted footballers technically, but our players always give 100%.

 

And scientifically, there is no such thing as natural talent.

[brummie]

MLS is one of the most rapidly growing leagues in the world. It's on par with most mid-level European leagues already. And it's only been around for 20 years.

 

It's extraordinarily well-run, more cash flows-in every year and the quality of play consistently improves. It'll be a top 5 league within the next 25-30 years, particularly if the major European leagues continue to play it fast and loose with their finances.

 

Great thing about the U.S. is that, being a country of 300 million people, we don't need our absolute finest athletes to choose the sport like European countries do. We still get fantastic athletes playing the game. American soccer players are already better athletes than the majority of world footballers, just not as technically proficient. But that's changing rapidly.

 

Frankly, it's laughable to think we'd be on top of the world if only the Kobe's and Jeter's had played soccer instead. There's no such thing as natural talent. Messi didn't get to where he is because he was born with the ability to play the game: he practiced day and night and picked-up the skills faster and better than almost everyone else. The greatest failing of soccer in the U.S. is that we don't instill the game from a very young age or encourage our young players to practice day and night.

 

Is this a joke, Deuce?

 

American footballers have always been lauded for their athletic ability. We may not have the most gifted footballers, but our players always give 100%.

 

And scientifically, there is no such thing as natural talent.

 

Yes there is. Or, there are at least physical and mental attributes you can be born with which make football a game you find easier to play than many others.

 

Sense of balance, peripheral vision, mental strength, physical strength, height even.

 

 

[Guest icemanblue]

MLS is one of the most rapidly growing leagues in the world. It's on par with most mid-level European leagues already. And it's only been around for 20 years.

 

It's extraordinarily well-run, more cash flows-in every year and the quality of play consistently improves. It'll be a top 5 league within the next 25-30 years, particularly if the major European leagues continue to play it fast and loose with their finances.

 

Great thing about the U.S. is that, being a country of 300 million people, we don't need our absolute finest athletes to choose the sport like European countries do. We still get fantastic athletes playing the game. American soccer players are already better athletes than the majority of world footballers, just not as technically proficient. But that's changing rapidly.

 

Frankly, it's laughable to think we'd be on top of the world if only the Kobe's and Jeter's had played soccer instead. There's no such thing as natural talent. Messi didn't get to where he is because he was born with the ability to play the game: he practiced day and night and picked-up the skills faster and better than almost everyone else. The greatest failing of soccer in the U.S. is that we don't instill the game from a very young age or encourage our young players to practice day and night.

 

Is this a joke, Deuce?

 

American footballers have always been lauded for their athletic ability. We may not have the most gifted footballers, but our players always give 100%.

 

And scientifically, there is no such thing as natural talent.

 

They may well be lauded for being 100 percenters, but how can you state that all American soccer players are better athletes than their European counterparts. That's ridiculous.

 

As VI has said, the tools that provide the framework for 'natural' talent are most certainly tools that we are born with. You simply can't be serious in saying that Messi is the world's best because he's practiced more than anyone else.

[Deuce]

That's not talent though. Those are physical attributes. No one is born with an inherent ability to play a sport better than anyone else. It's all learned.

 

Messi wasn't born with his abilities. Shout it down all you want, but it's not true. He's of course aided by his physical and mental attributes, in the same way that LeBron is aided by his height. But that has nothing to do with learning and mastering a sport.

[Ameritoon]

I don't really think money is the reason kids give up the sport as teenagers, fame maybe, but not money. I was in that position when I was younger; pretty good at soccer, but also more interested in other sports. I stuck with it but almost gave it up in high school again, mainly because we'd get about 100 people during an average game to watch, and I was playing at a local elementary school. Meanwhile the football team had a thousand each week even though they were absolutely terrible. Soccer is just not as respected or popular enough here, which definitely pushed me away. Good news is the sports popularity has increased remarkably since 2006, my friends and I can get weekly 11v11 games going all summer, I couldn't dream of getting someone to play soccer with me as a kid. Premier League on NBC next season the World Cup right after will only help, the perception is definitely changing.

[Guest icemanblue]

That's not talent though. Those are physical attributes. No one is born with an inherent ability to play a sport better than anyone else. It's all learned.

 

Messi wasn't born with his abilities. Shout it down all you want, but it's not true.

 

So he's the best because he practiced the most? Is that coupled with the fact that he just happened to excel in terms of skills useful for football players?

[brummie]

Messi wasn't born with his abilities. Shout it down all you want, but it's not true.

 

if that's the case, then, given that all US players give 100 percent all the time, shouldn't they al be amazing players (instead of just Brad Guzan, obvs)?

[Deuce]

That's not talent though. Those are physical attributes. No one is born with an inherent ability to play a sport better than anyone else. It's all learned.

 

Messi wasn't born with his abilities. Shout it down all you want, but it's not true.

 

So he's the best because he practiced the most? Is that coupled with the fact that he just happened to excel in terms of skills useful for football players?

 

he practiced day and night and picked-up the skills faster and better than almost everyone else.

 

Some people "get" it. Others don't. He still wasn't born with an ability to "get" it.

[Guest icemanblue]

What determines that ability then?

[Deuce]

Messi wasn't born with his abilities. Shout it down all you want, but it's not true.

 

if that's the case, then, given that all US players give 100 percent all the time, shouldn't they al be amazing players (instead of just Brad Guzan, obvs)?

 

Obviously not. American players give 100% because that's instilled in our athletes regardless of sport. We don't have amazing technical players because we don't teach technique as much as we should.

 

It's no surprise that Dempsey, probably our most technically-proficient footballer (yeah I know that's not a great endorsement of the abilities of American footballers), grew-up playing the game on dirt lots with Mexican immigrant kids. Youth soccer has long been highly pretentious, focusing most on winning rather than playing correctly. That's starting to change now thankfully.

[Deuce]

What determines that ability then?

 

Acquired knowledge, learning environment, how you were raised, etc.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Messi wasn't born with his abilities. Shout it down all you want, but it's not true.

 

if that's the case, then, given that all US players give 100 percent all the time, shouldn't they al be amazing players (instead of just Brad Guzan, obvs)?

 

Obviously not. American players give 100% because that's instilled in our athletes regardless of sport. We don't have amazing technical players because we don't teach technique as much as we should, thus, American

 

It's no surprise that Dempsey, probably our most technically-proficient footballer (yeah I know that's not a great endorsement of the abilities of American footballers), grew-up playing the game on dirt lots with Mexican immigrant kids. Youth soccer has long been highly pretentious, focusing most on winning rather than playing correctly. That's starting to change now thankfully.

 

Sounds extremely similar to England.

[Guest icemanblue]

What determines that ability then?

 

Acquired knowledge, learning environment, how you were raised, etc.

 

So basically a long succession of coincedences, lucky breaks, dedication and good training? Nothing at all to do with any abilities he was born with?

[brummie]

There are some aspects to footballers' abilities are nothing to do with acquired knowledge, though.

 

To suggest you can just teach players things and, if they work hard enough, they'll be good players is entirely wide of the mark, in my opinion.

 

Is Messi a product of hard work and good training and the environment he was brought up in?

[Village Idiot]

Isn't Shola reportedly a beast in training?

 

Call it what you want, some brains/bodies are just "wired" better to learn and develop some activities, athletic or otherwise. Otherwise every player that "tries hard" would become world class. You still need to work hard, but that's not the only factor.

 

[Deuce]

What determines that ability then?

 

Acquired knowledge, learning environment, how you were raised, etc.

 

So basically a long succession of coincedences, lucky breaks, dedication and good training? Nothing at all to do with any abilities he was born with?

 

If you take the child of doctors and switch him with the child of backwoods hillbillies, the one growing-up with the bumpkins ain't gonna be the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Deuce]

Isn't Shola reportedly a beast in training?

 

Call it what you want, some brains/bodies are just "wired" better to learn and develop some activities, athletic or otherwise. Otherwise every player that "tries hard" would become world class. You still need to work hard, but that's not the only factor.

 

 

Agree to disagree then.

[Guest icemanblue]

What determines that ability then?

 

Acquired knowledge, learning environment, how you were raised, etc.

 

So basically a long succession of coincedences, lucky breaks, dedication and good training? Nothing at all to do with any abilities he was born with?

 

If you take the child of doctors and switch him with the child of backwoods hillbillies, the one growing-up with the bumpkins ain't gonna be the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

That's tenuous at best. This, along with the other assertions in your original post, is an entirely bizarre belief.

[Deuce]

What determines that ability then?

 

Acquired knowledge, learning environment, how you were raised, etc.

 

So basically a long succession of coincedences, lucky breaks, dedication and good training? Nothing at all to do with any abilities he was born with?

 

If you take the child of doctors and switch him with the child of backwoods hillbillies, the one growing-up with the bumpkins ain't gonna be the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

That's tenuous at best. This, along with the other assertions in your original post, is an entirely bizarre belief.

 

We all have 'em.

[Disco]

Sounds extremely similar to England.

 

And hoards of other countries.

[Deuce]

Come on, Sem, finish your magnum opus post telling me how wrong I am.

[SEMTEX]

Are you actually serious? I'm confused. People have different genetics man, some people learn some things faster than others.

[cubaricho]

I've seen it mentioned many times by European managers when they come to play friendlies and the like that the American players are much more physically fit than their European counterparts just not as technically gifted. 

 

As long as we don't use that as a crutch for our lack of technicality, it is a great foundation to work from.

[Deuce]

Are you actually serious? I'm confused. People have different genetics man, some people learn some things faster than others.

 

Fine. I will concede this point. People have unique genetic characteristics, some of which may be beneficial to sport.

 

I don't believe that genetic traits are more important to developing top athletes than repetition, acquired knowledge, or learning environment, however.