The Europeometer™ (2023/24)

[SiLvOR]

6 minutes ago, Froggy said:

You're never undeserving of your league position. It's 38 games. There are no flukes

I'd argue we were pretty fucking lucky under Steve Bruce and finished higher than we should have

[The Fountain]

17 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

You're never undeserving of your league position. It's 38 games. There are no flukes. I would say we finished third last season because we kept the most clean sheets out of anyone which allowed us win 23 games despite not having a #9 who could score goals. Worth noting we played 24 games outside of the Premier League as well last year, and had a lot of injuries towards the end of the season. To say we were undeserving of third is utter nonsense.

 

Which leads me on to your next point of not adding to the team in any meaningful way... We've replaced Wout Weghorst with Rasmus Hojlund.  De Gea was receiving a lot of criticism last season for his ability to play out from the back. We've replaced him with a keeper who has elite distribution. We were light in midfield and signed a midfielder in Mount. Mount hasn't started well, but come on, he's played two games.

I agree a league position is the best metric there is in determining ability.

Your defence is sound and hopefully Hojlund is shite and you still struggle to score goals?

[Froggy]

7 minutes ago, The Fountain said:

I agree a league position is the best metric there is in determining ability.

Your defence is sound and hopefully Hojlund is shite and you still struggle to score goals?

 

Aye if Hojlund flops we're in major trouble. 

[Lish007]

Man utd had teething problems at the start of last season and quickly changed form. We went through long periods of poor form only then to hit everyone we played for 4/5 goals in a row. 

 

Too early to judge right now, it's a long season. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

It basically just depends on if moving Rashford back to the left will allow him to score enough goals to win enough games, from what I've seen so far. Nothing else they have looks good or dangerous.

 

Plenty of time yet though. 

 

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

On the subject of league position, you ultimately finish where you deserved to finish however the devil can very much be in the detail

 

I find solely looking at league position doesn't always tell you the full story, goal difference is a big indicator and Man-U had a goal difference that was inferior to the team above them by 30 and then team below them by 20

 

It's not too dissimilar to when we finished 5th, our GD wasn't great and was more similar to a mid table side

 

That's not to say Man-U won't do well this season but they'll have to improve to do so, you don't tend to get back to back seasons where you have a lower GD and you maintain both that and the league position. Onana is quality but as a team they don't look comfortable playing out from the back, so that needs addressing and obviously they need their striker back asap because Rashford needs to be moved to the left

[alexf]

On 29/07/2023 at 16:11, alexf said:

Top 8 this season is very strong. Far too many factors to try and call it this early. But my sneaky feeling, with squads as they are right now, is that Man Utd might be the team that struggle to get in top 4. Feel they are heavily reliant on Rashford having another strong season. Could all change if they bring in more players ofcourse but even then they may take time to settle. 

 

Stand by this preseason prediction now that we are two games in. Man U really need this new striker to settle early otherwise they are overly reliant on Rashford again. But the other teams are stronger this year so that wouldn't be enough for another 3rd for them.

 

Hojlund could turn out amazing, but it's a big ask for a young player in a new league.

[Pata]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

You're never undeserving of your league position. It's 38 games. There are no flukes.

That’s garbage and you weren’t really deserving of being third. Our good Pardew and Bruce seasons were massive flukes.

[Erikse]

13 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

On the subject of league position, you ultimately finish where you deserved to finish however the devil can very much be in the detail

 

I find solely looking at league position doesn't always tell you the full story, goal difference is a big indicator and Man-U had a goal difference that was inferior to the team above them by 30 and then team below them by 20

 

It's not too dissimilar to when we finished 5th, our GD wasn't great and was more similar to a mid table side

 

That's not to say Man-U won't do well this season but they'll have to improve to do so, you don't tend to get back to back seasons where you have a lower GD and you maintain both that and the league position. Onana is quality but as a team they don't look comfortable playing out from the back, so that needs addressing and obviously they need their striker back asap because Rashford needs to be moved to the left

 

To some extent, but goal difference can also be ruined but 2-3 really bad games. They lost 7-0 to Liverpool and 4-0 to Brentford right at the start of the season. There was a 6-3 loss to Man City in there aswell. They kind of gave up in some games. Our goal difference would still be superior without those games though, we were ruthless in terms of killing games.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Erikse

[The College Dropout]

Liverpool game is a good measuring stick. 
 

we’ve struggled against them even under Howe. 
 

And I think we’ve struggled against 10s in box midfields.  Against Villa and Brighton last season we won because our press was so dominant.  But they had opportunities the other way.  
 

I wonder if Liverpool stick with it. Apparently they were better when they went to 10 and perhaps stopped the box.  
 

Beating Liverpool would be great. 

[buzza]

The liverpool game will be about which side "clicks", both teams are unbeatable when on top form.

Hard to call tbf...

[mondonewc]

@Froggyinterested in your thoughts on Bruno as captain? I'm certainly biased as I think he's genuinely the most dislikeable player in the league, but, think his message after the game asking for an apology for the penalty shout after putting in such a poor 2nd half performance as a team speaks volumes for him and his character. Your recent away record against top-half teams has to be a big concern for your ambitions this season, and the general perceived lack of leaders. It's early days for sure but given the level of competition outside of City for the other CL spots I'd be worried if I was a Man Utd fan. 

[Froggy]

9 minutes ago, Pata said:

That’s garbage and you weren’t really deserving of being third. Our good Pardew and Bruce seasons were massive flukes.

 

Massively disagree. It's 38 games. A huge amount of football. Where you finish is where you deserve to be.

 

We won more games than Liverpool and Newcastle and kept more clean sheets than both. That was with Casemiro suspended for large periods and big injuries to the likes of Eriksen and Martinez. 

 

Pardew and Bruce no matter their flaws got their squads motivated and playing well enough to finish where they did. Obviously couldn't replicate it.

[buzza]

2 minutes ago, mondonewc said:

@Froggyinterested in your thoughts on Bruno as captain? I'm certainly biased as I think he's genuinely the most dislikeable player in the league, but, think his message after the game asking for an apology for the penalty shout after putting in such a poor 2nd half performance as a team speaks volumes for him and his character. Your recent away record against top-half teams has to be a big concern for your ambitions this season, and the general perceived lack of leaders. It's early days for sure but given the level of competition outside of City for the other CL spots I'd be worried if I was a Man Utd fan. 

My own personal opinion on him as captain is: he can set the standard needed through his playing ability, but his actions and treatment of both his teammates and referees is lamentable, a real bad example!

[Yorkie]

19 minutes ago, Pata said:

That’s garbage and you weren’t really deserving of being third. Our good Pardew and Bruce seasons were massive flukes.

 

Pardon me?

[Froggy]

Just now, mondonewc said:

@Froggyinterested in your thoughts on Bruno as captain? I'm certainly biased as I think he's genuinely the most dislikeable player in the league, but, think his message after the game asking for an apology for the penalty shout after putting in such a poor 2nd half performance as a team speaks volumes for him and his character. Your recent away record against top-half teams has to be a big concern for your ambitions this season, and the general perceived lack of leaders. It's early days for sure but given the level of competition outside of City for the other CL spots I'd be worried if I was a Man Utd fan. 

 

I think anyone who thinks he's not a good captain just doesn't pay attention to the games when he's playing. He dictates everything, he's very vocal, constantly looking around at the space and letting players know when to calm down and when to be more urgent. His workrate is phenomenal as well, and he's everpresent. Delighted with him as captain.

 

I also didn't see anything wrong with his interview. Sky etc. ran with the headline "Bruno Fernandes demands apology!" when he didn't. He just said that he'd be interested to see if Jon Moss apologies to our dressing room the same way he did with Wolves. We were denied a clear penalty and he was frustrated. I didn't hate that. 

 

Agree our away record against the top sides is horrible, and if it continues this season then questions need to be asked. It is interesting though that opposition fans look to Bruno as a problem when it's very rarely his fault. People like Rashford and Shaw get away without blame the majority of the time and they're much more of a problem when we're behind. Rashford just stops trying if things aren't going his way. Bruno never stops running.

[buzza]

Flukes with regard to the then managers influencing results...

[buzza]

Just now, Froggy said:

 

I think anyone who thinks he's not a good captain just doesn't pay attention to the games when he's playing. He dictates everything, he's very vocal, constantly looking around at the space and letting players know when to calm down and when to be more urgent. His workrate is phenomenal as well, and he's everpresent. Delighted with him as captain.

 

I also didn't see anything wrong with his interview. Sky etc. ran with the headline "Bruno Fernandes demands apology!" when he didn't. He just said that he'd be interested to see if Jon Moss apologies to our dressing room the same way he did with Wolves. We were denied a clear penalty and he was frustrated. I didn't hate that. 

 

Agree our away record against the top sides is horrible, and if it continues this season then questions need to be asked. It is interesting though that opposition fans look to Bruno as a problem when it's very rarely his fault. People like Rashford and Shaw get away without blame the majority of the time and they're much more of a problem when we're behind. Rashford just stops trying if things aren't going his way. Bruno never stops running.

Do you not think that his petulant gesturing to his teamates has a negative effect? He never seems to stop complaining and that surely is a negative for those around him.

Agree on his effort and footballing ability but just think that his body language is horrible

[Pata]

Just now, Yorkie said:

 

Pardon me?

 Aye, thought about that choice of word. 

The one where we finished comfortably midtable but were dead last in expected points.

 

 

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, buzza said:

Do you not think that his petulant gesturing to his teamates has a negative effect? He never seems to stop complaining and that surely is a negative for those around him.

Agree on his effort and footballing ability but just think that his body language is horrible

 

Honestly, I think he just has a very punchable face.  He's not complaining, he's demanding, he's being a captain, but he just looks like a whingey bastard.

 

He's the most well liked player in our squad. Everyone loves him. 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Just now, Froggy said:

 

Honestly, I think he just has a very punchable face.  He's not complaining, he's demanding, he's being a captain, but he just looks like a whingey bastard.

 

He's the most well liked player in our squad. Everyone loves him. 

 

Howay, he doesn't just look like a whingey bastard, he is a whingey bastard

 

Cut that part out and people would talk about the good player that he is

[buzza]

Just now, Froggy said:

 

Honestly, I think he just has a very punchable face.  He's not complaining, he's demanding, he's being a captain, but he just looks like a whingey bastard.

 

He's the most well liked player in our squad. Everyone loves him. 

Fair enough. We shall just jave to agree to disagree then...

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

 

Howay, he doesn't just look like a whingey bastard, he is a whingey bastard

 

Cut that part out and people would talk about the good player that he is

 

Oh I know I'm not doubting that, I just mean with his own players. He definitely whinges and moans with referees, but most players and call captains do. They're just not as hated as Bruno Fernandes.

[mondonewc]

7 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

I think anyone who thinks he's not a good captain just doesn't pay attention to the games when he's playing. He dictates everything, he's very vocal, constantly looking around at the space and letting players know when to calm down and when to be more urgent. His workrate is phenomenal as well, and he's everpresent. Delighted with him as captain.

 

I also didn't see anything wrong with his interview. Sky etc. ran with the headline "Bruno Fernandes demands apology!" when he didn't. He just said that he'd be interested to see if Jon Moss apologies to our dressing room the same way he did with Wolves. We were denied a clear penalty and he was frustrated. I didn't hate that. 

 

Agree our away record against the top sides is horrible, and if it continues this season then questions need to be asked. It is interesting though that opposition fans look to Bruno as a problem when it's very rarely his fault. People like Rashford and Shaw get away without blame the majority of the time and they're much more of a problem when we're behind. Rashford just stops trying if things aren't going his way. Bruno never stops running.

Possibly it's down to the media/Sky highlighting Bruno a lot, I just don't think it's a good way to lead by example to be making weak excuses about not getting a penalty, that was no way even comparable to the Wolves one, after putting in such a poor 2nd half performance, think that's very weak-minded and not what I'd want to see from Trippier. Regardless of the media, he very clearly is often moaning and whinging on the pitch when things aren't going well, don't think what @buzza said can even be debated, there are just so many examples of it, you can of course interpret it how you wish though

[Froggy]

12 minutes ago, mondonewc said:

Possibly it's down to the media/Sky highlighting Bruno a lot, I just don't think it's a good way to lead by example to be making weak excuses about not getting a penalty, that was no way even comparable to the Wolves one, after putting in such a poor 2nd half performance, think that's very weak-minded and not what I'd want to see from Trippier. Regardless of the media, he very clearly is often moaning and whinging on the pitch when things aren't going well, don't think what @buzza said can even be debated, there are just so many examples of it, you can of course interpret it how you wish though

 

We are highlighted a lot. We also have two mouthpiece ex-players in Neville and Keane who might be good value but they don't shut up about us. 

 

I don't sugarcoat anything though and I'm aware he moans a lot to refs. But I've watched every minute he has played for the last 3 and a half years and am aware of his character. Essential isn't even the word I'd use to describe him, he's beyond that. The heart of absolutely everything we do.