Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability

[Maineblue]

39 minutes ago, MrRaspberryJam said:

What’s it to yee like?

Hello u ok, just asking a question mate is that ok ?

[Maineblue]

38 minutes ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said:

Erm they didn’t play for Spurs

 

Did they win the appeal? I thought they just held things up in the courts for long enough that the majority of the provable stuff fell outside of the allowable time for charges to be brought

No City won the appeal.

[duo]

Snow ball continues to roll..

 

https://www.football.london/chelsea-fc/chelsea-already-given-ffp-verdict-28447984

[r0cafella]

1 hour ago, HaydnNUFC said:

Press play on this, fast forward to 2:06:00 and enjoy. @r0cafella

 

 

Reading them go off on Reddit instead, mental how they lack the basic comprehension skills required to understand what the breaches relate to and why. 

[leffe186]

28 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

Our revenue in 2022 was lower than clubs like Everton, Leicester, Leeds, Villa and West Ham. I think it's fair to say that the ceiling we're hitting is very different from any ceiling that you've had to deal with during these years, relative to the other top clubs. You've been top 6 in revenue since the start of FFP, consistenly with a great distance to nr 7.

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I think I didn’t understand what you were getting at in the first post. You said that we were “allowed” to spend way more than anyone outside the Top six, and it has been like that for a while. I thought you were asking why? I guess your point was that we’ve effectively been part of the cartel throughout?

 

FFP came in from UEFA in 2009 IIRC. Too late to affect Man City and Chelsea’s sprees and didn’t really affect us directly because Levy had been keeping tight control of our spending anyway since 2004. We didn’t have to suddenly deal with a ceiling imposed by FFP because we’d already been working under that ceiling for years.

 

It’s a very different landscape now, but the ceiling isn’t all that different to the one Levy imposed in 2003-4. Our revenue in 6th was 73% of yours in 5th. In 2022, West Ham’s revenue in 7th was 69% of Arsenal’s in 6th, which was 83% of ours in 5th. The absolute numbers are significantly greater but the relative numbers aren’t all that far off. Your revenue in 2023 will be absolutely light years ahead of 2022.

 

The great tragedy from your POV obviously was that Ashley came along in 2007. Even before Ashley we had overtaken you in the league (we’d finished 9th, 5th and 5th to your 14th, 7th and 13th), and we had overtaken your revenue primarily due to that. Ashley did his thing, and then UEFA brought in FFP a couple of years later. The worst possible timing for you.

 

The reason the ceiling looks so absurd to you now is that you’ve been bought by PIF and in theory have nearly unlimited money at your disposal…and you’ve been mismanaged for years. Most pertinently, for the last five years. That will change. Somebody posted earlier that “We just want to get rid of the dross players we were saddled with due to the Ashley era and build a squad that’s fit to challenge the upper end of the table”. Well I mean, you’ve pretty

much done that already, injuries and fixture demands notwithstanding.

 

I think that you’ll make progress every year. Ashley has fucked you, but every year without him is a year with a ton more revenue available to address FFP/F&S/whatever. If you disagree and want to fuck FFP off now then that’s understandable,

[Sima]

I reckon we’ve dropped way more than the 10 points we’d have been deducted this season already and we should have just fucked FFP off and bought who we wanted to.

[TheBrownBottle]

7 minutes ago, Sima said:

I reckon we’ve dropped way more than the 10 points we’d have been deducted this season already and we should have just fucked FFP off and bought who we wanted to.

We don’t know what the punishment would be, ultimately, because the harshness will likely be determined by how far over a club goes

[Erikse]

1 hour ago, leffe186 said:

 

Sorry, I think I didn’t understand what you were getting at in the first post. You said that we were “allowed” to spend way more than anyone outside the Top six, and it has been like that for a while. I thought you were asking why? I guess your point was that we’ve effectively been part of the cartel throughout?

 

FFP came in from UEFA in 2009 IIRC. Too late to affect Man City and Chelsea’s sprees and didn’t really affect us directly because Levy had been keeping tight control of our spending anyway since 2004. We didn’t have to suddenly deal with a ceiling imposed by FFP because we’d already been working under that ceiling for years.

 

It’s a very different landscape now, but the ceiling isn’t all that different to the one Levy imposed in 2003-4. Our revenue in 6th was 73% of yours in 5th. In 2022, West Ham’s revenue in 7th was 69% of Arsenal’s in 6th, which was 83% of ours in 5th. The absolute numbers are significantly greater but the relative numbers aren’t all that far off. Your revenue in 2023 will be absolutely light years ahead of 2022.

 

The great tragedy from your POV obviously was that Ashley came along in 2007. Even before Ashley we had overtaken you in the league (we’d finished 9th, 5th and 5th to your 14th, 7th and 13th), and we had overtaken your revenue primarily due to that. Ashley did his thing, and then UEFA brought in FFP a couple of years later. The worst possible timing for you.

 

The reason the ceiling looks so absurd to you now is that you’ve been bought by PIF and in theory have nearly unlimited money at your disposal…and you’ve been mismanaged for years. Most pertinently, for the last five years. That will change. Somebody posted earlier that “We just want to get rid of the dross players we were saddled with due to the Ashley era and build a squad that’s fit to challenge the upper end of the table”. Well I mean, you’ve pretty

much done that already, injuries and fixture demands notwithstanding.

 

I think that you’ll make progress every year. Ashley has fucked you, but every year without him is a year with a ton more revenue available to address FFP/F&S/whatever. If you disagree and want to fuck FFP off now then that’s understandable,

 

I was referring to this:

 

6 hours ago, leffe186 said:

Really? Differently frustrating, certainly. I thought the Ashley regime was completely disastrous and frustrating because we all knew the potential, and so many years were wasted.

 

Now imagine how frustrating it is to come up against this ceiling 15 years ago after seeing two teams get bought by oil money and having untold millions of it spunked on them, overnight creating a Big 4 and then a Big 5. Then you knuckle down and grind your way through that ceiling inexorably over 15-20 years. Then another team gets bought by oil money and you see their fans saying they’ve had enough of it after one-and-a-half seasons.

 

What ceiling are you talking about here? The Levy ceiling? We've had the Mike Ashley ceiling for 14 years aswell. I didn't see what you were replying to at first, and I agree that the post you replied to was an overexaggeration. But if you're talking about having an owner not spending - we had that aswell during the same time. So we can very easily imagine being up against a ceiling created by the owner, while if you're talking about FFP then our current FFP ceiling is way lower than what you've had for the last 15 years.

 

 

Edited January 16 by Erikse

[r0cafella]

Have spurs ever operated under FFP constraints? I don’t think so right? They aren’t the type of club who are looking to spend the sums needed to push them close? Kinda like Liverpool. 

[toontownman]

2 hours ago, r0cafella said:

Have spurs ever operated under FFP constraints? I don’t think so right? They aren’t the type of club who are looking to spend the sums needed to push them close? Kinda like Liverpool. 

Aye. Both have sold players for significant amounts and have profitable academies. Liverpool begrudgingly have been run reasonably well. Spuds essentially have too, some misses on the management appointments side and levys rumoured tinkering aside.

[Maineblue]

2 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Aye. Both have sold players for significant amounts and have profitable academies. Liverpool begrudgingly have been run reasonably well. Spuds essentially have too, some misses on the management appointments side and levys rumoured tinkering aside.

Do you think City have been well run in the Guardiola era ?

[Ben]

Will they make the finances of all the clubs available so we can see how close the rest of them are to sanctions ? 

[r0cafella]

22 minutes ago, Maineblue said:

Do you think City have been well run in the Guardiola era ?

Sure but without the cheating there is no pep era

[Optimistic Nut]

6 hours ago, Erikse said:

 

Our revenue in 2022 was lower than clubs like Everton, Leicester, Leeds, Villa and West Ham. I think it's fair to say that the ceiling we're hitting is very different from any ceiling that you've had to deal with during these years, relative to the other top clubs. You've been top 6 in revenue since the start of FFP, consistenly with a great distance to nr 7.

 

 

 

 

It was below all these clubs after Ashley, before Ashley it was on par with Spurs and not that far off Arsenal and Liverpool. 

 

FFP is shit.

[Maineblue]

10 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Sure but without the cheating there is no pep era

When we get cleared I want an apology ?

[TheBrownBottle]

5 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

It was below all these clubs after Ashley, before Ashley it was on par with Spurs and not that far off Arsenal and Liverpool. 

 

FFP is shit.

It’s incredible, isn’t it?  There are still clowns who think he ‘steadied the ship’.  He had to cut costs because our income dropped.  The club was incompetently run by the fat fucker 

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, Maineblue said:

When we get cleared I want an apology ?

You won’t be getting one, the evidence is clear. You only got off previously due to a time bar. 
 

You either don’t know, or you refuse to engage in good faith. 

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

It’s incredible, isn’t it?  There are still clowns who think he ‘steadied the ship’.  He had to cut costs because our income dropped.  The club was incompetently run by the fat fucker 

He probably made out with 200m worth of free advertising during his reign. We were robbed blind but the fan base would happily accept whatever he served up. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, r0cafella said:

He probably made out with 200m worth of free advertising during his reign. We were robbed blind but the fan base would happily accept whatever he served up. 

Plenty enough did.  I can understand it to an extent - there is the social element to going to the match.  Me, I bailed early on the Ashley years (though I have to be honest, when I stopped in 2008 I never thought it would be thirteen more years!  He put the club ‘up for sale’ after the Bolton home game that year, my last match.  If I’d known it would be that long, I can’t honestly answer if I’d have jacked at that point). 

[r0cafella]

He was a terrible owner, sucked the life out of the club in all shapes and forms. Getting angry thinking about it

[Optimistic Nut]

2 and a bit years later and his legacy is still casting a little shadow over us. What a turnip.

[Stifler]

6 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

He probably made out with 200m worth of free advertising during his reign. We were robbed blind but the fan base would happily accept whatever he served up. 

All told, he made about £1bn out of the club. He got the price of the sale/loan (club own money in anyway). Over a decade of the merchandise being sold via Sports Direct, advertising, land & asset sales.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, Stifler said:

All told, he made about £1bn out of the club. He got the price of the sale/loan (club own money in anyway). Over a decade of the merchandise being sold via Sports Direct, advertising, land & asset sales.

Oof, that looks a wee bit high to me - he definitely coined it, but I don’t think he made those sort of numbers - due to his own incompetence mind

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

2 and a bit years later and his legacy is still casting a little shadow over us. What a turnip.

Will still be in another 10 years as well. We were utterly neglected. Championship teams have been facilities than us. It’s embarrassing. 

[Optimistic Nut]

5 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Will still be in another 10 years as well. We were utterly neglected. Championship teams have been facilities than us. It’s embarrassing. 

 

There should be some sort of scope for us to go the the PL saying, "here's the commercial revenue in 2007 before Mike Ashley, here's where it is in 2021, you did nothing to stop him using the club for free advertisement, not spending on the club infrastructure...we feel £x is a fair amount to bridge that gap to return us to a level we feel is where we were".

 

 

Edited January 16 by Optimistic Nut