Sandro Tonali

[The Bonk]

24 minutes ago, Milanista said:

Let me cut to the chase: you're not getting Tonali.

 

I read through this thread, and... I have to address some of the things I've read in here. It's my nature. I apologize ahead of time.

 

Milan is currently the most healthy club, financially, in Italy. Inter are mountains of debt, and their owners, unlike Juve's, are unable/unwilling to put money into Inter. Inter are going to be selling. You would have a much bigger chance at Barella than you would Tonali. Inter need money, Milan do not.

 

You aren't going to get Tonali for 50m, by the way. Maybe they will pick up the phone for 100m, if Declan Rice is going for that.

 

Tonali is better in a midfield three, that's where he played before coming to Milan, but he's such a talent that he can play in our double pivot. His first year at Milan was tough, because he had to get used to the double pivot of our 4231. His second year, we won the league, and he was... a lion. I think people have underrated him this year, as he has been run into the ground, and asked to cover more ground than ever before. He's running an extra kilometer more than the second most on our team, each game, consistently. He's been run ragged this year and is constantly putting out fires.

 

People who think he had an average year this year are... judging him on a curve. Our tactics have shifted from a genuine 4231 to more of a 42... attack! This has left our midfield and defense more exposed, as our manager has... he's had a poor season. There were rumors swirling that he was going to get fired, with reports that Maldini wanted to fire him (some say Pirlo others say Italiano [coach of Fiorentina]), but our new owners fired Paolo Maldini instead--who turned our team around, as our new ownership shifts completely into its "Moneyball" approach to building up a team.

 

I also find the idea that we can't compete for the title or for the CL anytime soon... funny. Our team is still extremely young and if we add the right pieces, and our manager wakes up from his stupor, we are one of the best teams in Europe, like it or not, say we're lucky or not, without injuries to two of our best players in the semis (Leao and Bennacer) and we probably get to the CL final instead of Inter--and unlike Inter, our problems aren't against big teams, we actually tend to tear them to shreds. I'm not sure if you saw, but we... embarrassed Napoli 4-0 in their own stadium, and any team that opens up and attacks us. Our problem (well, our manager's problem), tactically, is that we struggle when we play small teams that defend in low-blocks. Provincial teams, like Inter.

 

We just extended Rafa Leao, when he was supposedly going to be tempted by the Premier League--I think that temptation is overrated when you are at a club like Milan--and we also extended Bennacer, Theo Hernandez, Tomori, Kalulu, and a whole host of our stars. In short, we're not going to lose anyone we don't want to.

 

However, let's say that the caricature that Italian teams are all struggling applied to Milan (it doesn't) but even if it did... we actually can't afford to let Tonali go. We don't have enough Italians in our squad, and we have to get rid of non-Italian trained players (players who have had their youth careers in Italy, regardless of nationality) to make room, and are currently seeking Italian players to add as useful backup players while finding ways to fit our new players into the squad lists.

 

So even if we did have to sell Tonali (we don't) then it would be better for us to sell Maignan, or Tomori, or Kalulu, or anyone else except Tonali.

 

Of course, I could be wrong. Our ownership did just fire Maldini for... asking for more money as he wants to win the CL now rather than in a few years. Maldini publicly demanded he wanted Milan to push for titles the year before, which firing him has put our ownership in a corner over what their ambitions are. Ownership has went out of its way to assert that their ambitions are still the same even without Maldini, and that they aim to be among the elite in Europe. For Milan, the CL is our identity, our DNA, and it is what most Milan fans value over anything else.

 

So maybe we do sell Tonali? I doubt it, mostly due to our problem with having enough Italians. Plus, the kid took a pay cut to extend with us, to make sure he could get the loan turned into something permanent, and the club (Maldini) put their faith in him after a bad first year and he exploded. He was then rewarded with an extension and a pay rise afterward. He's a boyhood Milan fan, he's destined to be one of our future captains, along with Theo Hernandez, and this squad really does not want to leave Milan. They have bought into the rebuild of Milan.

 

Now Barella versus Tonali...

 

Is Barella better than Tonali? It's a weird comparison, because... They play in such wildly different systems. Barella is far less exposed, does far less defensive work, covers less ground, and is given more license to go forward. He plays as a RCM in a 352 and isn't as exposed to open space at Inter that he would if he played for Milan.

 

I also think the fact that Tonali is three years younger is a huge element that is overlooked.

 

If Barella played at Milan he wouldn't be able to handle our double-pivot, most likely, he'd play as our CAM. So... comparisons between the two are... odd, it's like comparing Lampard and Roy Keane rather than Gerrard and Lampard, and I know that isn't an exact parallel for Barella and Tonali, but... I hope you get my meaning, they are actually very different players. When they both play for Italy, there isn't a headache about fitting them in together like Gerrard and Lampard, they actually play together well, and... they do different things.

 

When they play together for Italy, Tonali is the anchor, CDM, while Barella is always an RCM. He isn't as versatile as Tonali is. You can play Tonali further forward, you can play him as an RCM or LCM in a midfield three, but his passing range is underrated (he isn't Pirlo, but he's still got great vision) and I think is colored by this year being a tough one for Milan (despite us getting to a CL semi-final lol) as our attack was still the problem, putting more pressure on our defense and midfield.

 

Do I think Barella is a good fit for Newcastle? If you want to play him as an LCM/RCM in a midfield three, yeah, maybe? He's petulant, though. He doesn't take his lumps, brush himself off, and get on with it. He's a far more... Italian sort of midfielder. He's more suited to the Italian game than he would be for the Prem. He yells at his own teammates, complains to refs constantly, while being one of Italy's golden boys, so it's not like refs are going to let opponents kick lumps into him.

 

I don't think Barella would suit you, to be honest. He's a great player, there's no doubt, but he doesn't have the mentality for the Prem. Maybe he'd adjust? He's a very good player, but it all matters what you want from a midfielder.

 

If you're going to continue with your tactical setup that you have now, it could work. If you want a more attacking LB instead then... Tonali would be the better buy, but... I doubt you're going to get Tonali. If you want him to play as your LCM and you get a more attacking LB, then... Botman is going to be left on islands, and there's a reason why Howe plays a CB as LB for your guys. Mind you, this isn't just something Howe did, but at Lille, Djalo, a CB, was played as a LB with Botman, so if you get Barella, and he's playing as your LCM... that could upset the balance of your setup. If he's your RCM, that might be better.

 

Don't get me wrong, Barella is a great player, and if you want someone who offers more attacking threat from your RCM spot, then there are few midfielders in the world who do a better job than him. But he's constantly protected in Inter's 352 system, he doesn't just have a CB and CDM behind him but a RWB to shield him, and I think that in your 433, as it morphs, it would require Barella to put in more defensive work than he's used to--but he's done that while playing in Italy's 433, so he can probably do it.

 

But back to Tonali? The idea that Milan would sell Tonali for 50m is... it's hilarious. When Chelsea wanted Leao, we pointed to his release clause, which was 125 or 150m? His new release clause was just raised to 175m. When Chelsea asked us for Maignan, Milan won't pick up for the phone for anything less than 90m, and reports are that 90m was still considered too low for Maignan. Our goalkeeper. What do you think we'll say about Tonali?

 

Our owners just fired Maldini, who only extended his stay with them because he publicly demanded more money for transfers (which he didn't get)--but he also made demands about ambitions and that he wanted to win, and the new owners cannot really afford to sell Tonali, without causing havoc with the fans, but even then, let's say that Milan is poor and desperate (we aren't) like Inter (they are) because of the homegrown rules, we need to keep Tonali in the squad, anyway.

 

Do I think this story is real? Sure. I'm sure Newcastle did approach Milan for Tonali. Lots of reputable sources are putting it out there. My guess is that our ownership is leaking it so that when we turn them away, they can look like heroes. Our new ownership has been dishing out dirt on Maldini, leaking his supposed "plans" for Milan to justify why they fired him. They want to shore up fan support and what better way than to turn down Newcastle and EPL money?

 

There's no way he gets sold for anything less than 75m sterling. He's still eligible for U21 duty.

 

I tried to use bold, italics, and underlines to break things up and give you a very thorough breakdown of things. I hope this helped. I always enjoy talking with you guys.

 

Oh! And I told you so that Newcastle could make top four!

 

 

 

Great read! Thanks for posting. 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Looks like similar to Declan Rice. Let Arsenal sign Rice for 80m and us Tonali for 50m

[TheBrownBottle]

27 minutes ago, Milanista said:

Let me cut to the chase: you're not getting Tonali.

 

I read through this thread, and... I have to address some of the things I've read in here. It's my nature. I apologize ahead of time.

 

Milan is currently the most healthy club, financially, in Italy. Inter are mountains of debt, and their owners, unlike Juve's, are unable/unwilling to put money into Inter. Inter are going to be selling. You would have a much bigger chance at Barella than you would Tonali. Inter need money, Milan do not.

 

You aren't going to get Tonali for 50m, by the way. Maybe they will pick up the phone for 100m, if Declan Rice is going for that.

 

Tonali is better in a midfield three, that's where he played before coming to Milan, but he's such a talent that he can play in our double pivot. His first year at Milan was tough, because he had to get used to the double pivot of our 4231. His second year, we won the league, and he was... a lion. I think people have underrated him this year, as he has been run into the ground, and asked to cover more ground than ever before. He's running an extra kilometer more than the second most on our team, each game, consistently. He's been run ragged this year and is constantly putting out fires.

 

People who think he had an average year this year are... judging him on a curve. Our tactics have shifted from a genuine 4231 to more of a 42... attack! This has left our midfield and defense more exposed, as our manager has... he's had a poor season. There were rumors swirling that he was going to get fired, with reports that Maldini wanted to fire him (some say Pirlo others say Italiano [coach of Fiorentina]), but our new owners fired Paolo Maldini instead--who turned our team around, as our new ownership shifts completely into its "Moneyball" approach to building up a team.

 

I also find the idea that we can't compete for the title or for the CL anytime soon... funny. Our team is still extremely young and if we add the right pieces, and our manager wakes up from his stupor, we are one of the best teams in Europe, like it or not, say we're lucky or not, without injuries to two of our best players in the semis (Leao and Bennacer) and we probably get to the CL final instead of Inter--and unlike Inter, our problems aren't against big teams, we actually tend to tear them to shreds. I'm not sure if you saw, but we... embarrassed Napoli 4-0 in their own stadium, and any team that opens up and attacks us. Our problem (well, our manager's problem), tactically, is that we struggle when we play small teams that defend in low-blocks. Provincial teams, like Inter.

 

We just extended Rafa Leao, when he was supposedly going to be tempted by the Premier League--I think that temptation is overrated when you are at a club like Milan--and we also extended Bennacer, Theo Hernandez, Tomori, Kalulu, and a whole host of our stars. In short, we're not going to lose anyone we don't want to.

 

However, let's say that the caricature that Italian teams are all struggling applied to Milan (it doesn't) but even if it did... we actually can't afford to let Tonali go. We don't have enough Italians in our squad, and we have to get rid of non-Italian trained players (players who have had their youth careers in Italy, regardless of nationality) to make room, and are currently seeking Italian players to add as useful backup players while finding ways to fit our new players into the squad lists.

 

So even if we did have to sell Tonali (we don't) then it would be better for us to sell Maignan, or Tomori, or Kalulu, or anyone else except Tonali.

 

Of course, I could be wrong. Our ownership did just fire Maldini for... asking for more money as he wants to win the CL now rather than in a few years. Maldini publicly demanded he wanted Milan to push for titles the year before, which firing him has put our ownership in a corner over what their ambitions are. Ownership has went out of its way to assert that their ambitions are still the same even without Maldini, and that they aim to be among the elite in Europe. For Milan, the CL is our identity, our DNA, and it is what most Milan fans value over anything else.

 

So maybe we do sell Tonali? I doubt it, mostly due to our problem with having enough Italians. Plus, the kid took a pay cut to extend with us, to make sure he could get the loan turned into something permanent, and the club (Maldini) put their faith in him after a bad first year and he exploded. He was then rewarded with an extension and a pay rise afterward. He's a boyhood Milan fan, he's destined to be one of our future captains, along with Theo Hernandez, and this squad really does not want to leave Milan. They have bought into the rebuild of Milan.

 

Now Barella versus Tonali...

 

Is Barella better than Tonali? It's a weird comparison, because... They play in such wildly different systems. Barella is far less exposed, does far less defensive work, covers less ground, and is given more license to go forward. He plays as a RCM in a 352 and isn't as exposed to open space at Inter that he would if he played for Milan.

 

I also think the fact that Tonali is three years younger is a huge element that is overlooked.

 

If Barella played at Milan he wouldn't be able to handle our double-pivot, most likely, he'd play as our CAM. So... comparisons between the two are... odd, it's like comparing Lampard and Roy Keane rather than Gerrard and Lampard, and I know that isn't an exact parallel for Barella and Tonali, but... I hope you get my meaning, they are actually very different players. When they both play for Italy, there isn't a headache about fitting them in together like Gerrard and Lampard, they actually play together well, and... they do different things.

 

When they play together for Italy, Tonali is the anchor, CDM, while Barella is always an RCM. He isn't as versatile as Tonali is. You can play Tonali further forward, you can play him as an RCM or LCM in a midfield three, but his passing range is underrated (he isn't Pirlo, but he's still got great vision) and I think is colored by this year being a tough one for Milan (despite us getting to a CL semi-final lol) as our attack was still the problem, putting more pressure on our defense and midfield.

 

Do I think Barella is a good fit for Newcastle? If you want to play him as an LCM/RCM in a midfield three, yeah, maybe? He's petulant, though. He doesn't take his lumps, brush himself off, and get on with it. He's a far more... Italian sort of midfielder. He's more suited to the Italian game than he would be for the Prem. He yells at his own teammates, complains to refs constantly, while being one of Italy's golden boys, so it's not like refs are going to let opponents kick lumps into him.

 

I don't think Barella would suit you, to be honest. He's a great player, there's no doubt, but he doesn't have the mentality for the Prem. Maybe he'd adjust? He's a very good player, but it all matters what you want from a midfielder.

 

If you're going to continue with your tactical setup that you have now, it could work. If you want a more attacking LB instead then... Tonali would be the better buy, but... I doubt you're going to get Tonali. If you want him to play as your LCM and you get a more attacking LB, then... Botman is going to be left on islands, and there's a reason why Howe plays a CB as LB for your guys. Mind you, this isn't just something Howe did, but at Lille, Djalo, a CB, was played as a LB with Botman, so if you get Barella, and he's playing as your LCM... that could upset the balance of your setup. If he's your RCM, that might be better.

 

Don't get me wrong, Barella is a great player, and if you want someone who offers more attacking threat from your RCM spot, then there are few midfielders in the world who do a better job than him. But he's constantly protected in Inter's 352 system, he doesn't just have a CB and CDM behind him but a RWB to shield him, and I think that in your 433, as it morphs, it would require Barella to put in more defensive work than he's used to--but he's done that while playing in Italy's 433, so he can probably do it.

 

But back to Tonali? The idea that Milan would sell Tonali for 50m is... it's hilarious. When Chelsea wanted Leao, we pointed to his release clause, which was 125 or 150m? His new release clause was just raised to 175m. When Chelsea asked us for Maignan, Milan won't pick up for the phone for anything less than 90m, and reports are that 90m was still considered too low for Maignan. Our goalkeeper. What do you think we'll say about Tonali?

 

Our owners just fired Maldini, who only extended his stay with them because he publicly demanded more money for transfers (which he didn't get)--but he also made demands about ambitions and that he wanted to win, and the new owners cannot really afford to sell Tonali, without causing havoc with the fans, but even then, let's say that Milan is poor and desperate (we aren't) like Inter (they are) because of the homegrown rules, we need to keep Tonali in the squad, anyway.

 

Do I think this story is real? Sure. I'm sure Newcastle did approach Milan for Tonali. Lots of reputable sources are putting it out there. My guess is that our ownership is leaking it so that when we turn them away, they can look like heroes. Our new ownership has been dishing out dirt on Maldini, leaking his supposed "plans" for Milan to justify why they fired him. They want to shore up fan support and what better way than to turn down Newcastle and EPL money?

 

There's no way he gets sold for anything less than 75m sterling. He's still eligible for U21 duty.

 

I tried to use bold, italics, and underlines to break things up and give you a very thorough breakdown of things. I hope this helped. I always enjoy talking with you guys.

 

Oh! And I told you so that Newcastle could make top four!

 

 

 

Great post, but just to pick you up on ‘if Rice is £100m so is Tonoli’ - not how it works I’m afraid.  I’m not arguing that Rice is better than Tonoli - but English players attract a massive premium due to UEFA regs on ‘home’ players.  In effect, being English adds (conservatively) 50% to a player’s value in England.

[timeEd32]

Maybe this guy is full of shit but he's been ahead of everyone on this one so far... 

 

[Kanj]

Gorgeous post @Milanista despite me hoping you’re wrong and we do get him  

[Viana]

1 hour ago, Milanista said:

Let me cut to the chase: you're not getting Tonali.

 

I read through this thread, and... I have to address some of the things I've read in here. It's my nature. I apologize ahead of time.

 

Milan is currently the most healthy club, financially, in Italy. Inter are mountains of debt, and their owners, unlike Juve's, are unable/unwilling to put money into Inter. Inter are going to be selling. You would have a much bigger chance at Barella than you would Tonali. Inter need money, Milan do not.

 

You aren't going to get Tonali for 50m, by the way. Maybe they will pick up the phone for 100m, if Declan Rice is going for that.

 

Tonali is better in a midfield three, that's where he played before coming to Milan, but he's such a talent that he can play in our double pivot. His first year at Milan was tough, because he had to get used to the double pivot of our 4231. His second year, we won the league, and he was... a lion. I think people have underrated him this year, as he has been run into the ground, and asked to cover more ground than ever before. He's running an extra kilometer more than the second most on our team, each game, consistently. He's been run ragged this year and is constantly putting out fires.

 

People who think he had an average year this year are... judging him on a curve. Our tactics have shifted from a genuine 4231 to more of a 42... attack! This has left our midfield and defense more exposed, as our manager has... he's had a poor season. There were rumors swirling that he was going to get fired, with reports that Maldini wanted to fire him (some say Pirlo others say Italiano [coach of Fiorentina]), but our new owners fired Paolo Maldini instead--who turned our team around, as our new ownership shifts completely into its "Moneyball" approach to building up a team.

 

I also find the idea that we can't compete for the title or for the CL anytime soon... funny. Our team is still extremely young and if we add the right pieces, and our manager wakes up from his stupor, we are one of the best teams in Europe, like it or not, say we're lucky or not, without injuries to two of our best players in the semis (Leao and Bennacer) and we probably get to the CL final instead of Inter--and unlike Inter, our problems aren't against big teams, we actually tend to tear them to shreds. I'm not sure if you saw, but we... embarrassed Napoli 4-0 in their own stadium, and any team that opens up and attacks us. Our problem (well, our manager's problem), tactically, is that we struggle when we play small teams that defend in low-blocks. Provincial teams, like Inter.

 

We just extended Rafa Leao, when he was supposedly going to be tempted by the Premier League--I think that temptation is overrated when you are at a club like Milan--and we also extended Bennacer, Theo Hernandez, Tomori, Kalulu, and a whole host of our stars. In short, we're not going to lose anyone we don't want to.

 

However, let's say that the caricature that Italian teams are all struggling applied to Milan (it doesn't) but even if it did... we actually can't afford to let Tonali go. We don't have enough Italians in our squad, and we have to get rid of non-Italian trained players (players who have had their youth careers in Italy, regardless of nationality) to make room, and are currently seeking Italian players to add as useful backup players while finding ways to fit our new players into the squad lists.

 

So even if we did have to sell Tonali (we don't) then it would be better for us to sell Maignan, or Tomori, or Kalulu, or anyone else except Tonali.

 

Of course, I could be wrong. Our ownership did just fire Maldini for... asking for more money as he wants to win the CL now rather than in a few years. Maldini publicly demanded he wanted Milan to push for titles the year before, which firing him has put our ownership in a corner over what their ambitions are. Ownership has went out of its way to assert that their ambitions are still the same even without Maldini, and that they aim to be among the elite in Europe. For Milan, the CL is our identity, our DNA, and it is what most Milan fans value over anything else.

 

So maybe we do sell Tonali? I doubt it, mostly due to our problem with having enough Italians. Plus, the kid took a pay cut to extend with us, to make sure he could get the loan turned into something permanent, and the club (Maldini) put their faith in him after a bad first year and he exploded. He was then rewarded with an extension and a pay rise afterward. He's a boyhood Milan fan, he's destined to be one of our future captains, along with Theo Hernandez, and this squad really does not want to leave Milan. They have bought into the rebuild of Milan.

 

Now Barella versus Tonali...

 

Is Barella better than Tonali? It's a weird comparison, because... They play in such wildly different systems. Barella is far less exposed, does far less defensive work, covers less ground, and is given more license to go forward. He plays as a RCM in a 352 and isn't as exposed to open space at Inter that he would if he played for Milan.

 

I also think the fact that Tonali is three years younger is a huge element that is overlooked.

 

If Barella played at Milan he wouldn't be able to handle our double-pivot, most likely, he'd play as our CAM. So... comparisons between the two are... odd, it's like comparing Lampard and Roy Keane rather than Gerrard and Lampard, and I know that isn't an exact parallel for Barella and Tonali, but... I hope you get my meaning, they are actually very different players. When they both play for Italy, there isn't a headache about fitting them in together like Gerrard and Lampard, they actually play together well, and... they do different things.

 

When they play together for Italy, Tonali is the anchor, CDM, while Barella is always an RCM. He isn't as versatile as Tonali is. You can play Tonali further forward, you can play him as an RCM or LCM in a midfield three, but his passing range is underrated (he isn't Pirlo, but he's still got great vision) and I think is colored by this year being a tough one for Milan (despite us getting to a CL semi-final lol) as our attack was still the problem, putting more pressure on our defense and midfield.

 

Do I think Barella is a good fit for Newcastle? If you want to play him as an LCM/RCM in a midfield three, yeah, maybe? He's petulant, though. He doesn't take his lumps, brush himself off, and get on with it. He's a far more... Italian sort of midfielder. He's more suited to the Italian game than he would be for the Prem. He yells at his own teammates, complains to refs constantly, while being one of Italy's golden boys, so it's not like refs are going to let opponents kick lumps into him.

 

I don't think Barella would suit you, to be honest. He's a great player, there's no doubt, but he doesn't have the mentality for the Prem. Maybe he'd adjust? He's a very good player, but it all matters what you want from a midfielder.

 

If you're going to continue with your tactical setup that you have now, it could work. If you want a more attacking LB instead then... Tonali would be the better buy, but... I doubt you're going to get Tonali. If you want him to play as your LCM and you get a more attacking LB, then... Botman is going to be left on islands, and there's a reason why Howe plays a CB as LB for your guys. Mind you, this isn't just something Howe did, but at Lille, Djalo, a CB, was played as a LB with Botman, so if you get Barella, and he's playing as your LCM... that could upset the balance of your setup. If he's your RCM, that might be better.

 

Don't get me wrong, Barella is a great player, and if you want someone who offers more attacking threat from your RCM spot, then there are few midfielders in the world who do a better job than him. But he's constantly protected in Inter's 352 system, he doesn't just have a CB and CDM behind him but a RWB to shield him, and I think that in your 433, as it morphs, it would require Barella to put in more defensive work than he's used to--but he's done that while playing in Italy's 433, so he can probably do it.

 

But back to Tonali? The idea that Milan would sell Tonali for 50m is... it's hilarious. When Chelsea wanted Leao, we pointed to his release clause, which was 125 or 150m? His new release clause was just raised to 175m. When Chelsea asked us for Maignan, Milan won't pick up for the phone for anything less than 90m, and reports are that 90m was still considered too low for Maignan. Our goalkeeper. What do you think we'll say about Tonali?

 

Our owners just fired Maldini, who only extended his stay with them because he publicly demanded more money for transfers (which he didn't get)--but he also made demands about ambitions and that he wanted to win, and the new owners cannot really afford to sell Tonali, without causing havoc with the fans, but even then, let's say that Milan is poor and desperate (we aren't) like Inter (they are) because of the homegrown rules, we need to keep Tonali in the squad, anyway.

 

Do I think this story is real? Sure. I'm sure Newcastle did approach Milan for Tonali. Lots of reputable sources are putting it out there. My guess is that our ownership is leaking it so that when we turn them away, they can look like heroes. Our new ownership has been dishing out dirt on Maldini, leaking his supposed "plans" for Milan to justify why they fired him. They want to shore up fan support and what better way than to turn down Newcastle and EPL money?

 

There's no way he gets sold for anything less than 75m sterling. He's still eligible for U21 duty.

 

I tried to use bold, italics, and underlines to break things up and give you a very thorough breakdown of things. I hope this helped. I always enjoy talking with you guys.

 

Oh! And I told you so that Newcastle could make top four!

 

 

 

Be funny as fuck if he signed now.

[timeEd32]

@Milanista I know you think there’s no chance, but if he did leave how upset would you / Milan fans be on a scale of 1-10?

[Milanista]

20 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Great post, but just to pick you up on ‘if Rice is £100m so is Tonoli’ - not how it works I’m afraid.  I’m not arguing that Rice is better than Tonoli - but English players attract a massive premium due to UEFA regs on ‘home’ players.  In effect, being English adds (conservatively) 50% to a player’s value in England.

Fair enough. I do think he's better than Declan Rice, who is a very good player. To me, Tonali is in the Tchouameni, Camavinga, Bellingham level of midfielder--so for me, 80-100m (Euro) is a more accurate reflection of his price.

 

19 hours ago, Kanji said:

Gorgeous post @Milanista despite me hoping you’re wrong and we do get him  

Thank you. He'd suit the Prem, to be honest. There are some Milan fans who think he's a "jack of all trades and master of none," but that's them being bitter and angry. Milan fans, in particular, are prone towards seeing the grass being greener on the other side. We criminally underrate our own players, because Milan fans like to think of themselves as "objective" fans, and in their quest for objectivity, they are... over-correcting by being hyper-critical and fixating on a misplaced pass or mistake as if that defined the entire display, lol.

 

Tonali is able to play as a regista (Pirlo-style CDM) but he's also able to play like a Van Bommel-style CDM, but you can also play him further forward--there is a group of Milan fans who think he should be paired with a more dedicated DM in our 4231, but I think our Tonali-Bennacer partnership is very strong, the issue is when Pioli (our manager) plays a second-striker as our CAM, it transforms our 4231 into a 424 that is very unbalanced. Even a midfield pairing with two out-and-out destroyer-type DMs would struggle. Even in that shape though, he's been the driving force in our team: that's what makes him such a great midfielder to have. He has grit, strength, speed--he can pass, playmake, shield a defense, he's really an all-action midfielder.

 

People try to call him a mixture of Gattuso and Pirlo, but... he's really just Albertini.

 

18 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

@Milanista I know you think there’s no chance, but if he did leave how upset would you / Milan fans be on a scale of 1-10?

It would be quite a coup for you to take Tonali away from us. I honestly think the only way Newcastle buys Tonali is if you pay over 100m, sterling. If Enzo Fernandez went for 106m sterling, for a good World Cup run and six months in Portugal, then Tonali should go for the same amount.

 

Again, even if we had to sell players (we don't) I just don't think we'd sell Tonali but other players, because of homegrown rules, we need more Italian-trained players in our squad.

 

Milan is one of the few football clubs that is projected to make a profit, and we don't sell players. We let Donnarumma, a world-class GK, walk for free instead of selling him because we didn't want to sell him--of course when you replace him with an even better keeper in Mike Maignan, saving yourself money in the process, it helps lol. But we let Kessie go to Barca, Hakan to Inter, Romagnoli to Lazio, because we felt that it was better to keep them than to sell them. Sure, we tried to renew with them, but only on our financial terms. Kessie was asking for similar money to Rodri, so of course we didn't extend him, while Romagnoli was making Kyle Walker wages, etc.

 

It depends on the price. If it was over 120m pounds, I'd understand it--but Newcastle will have to stop being the lovable team from the North with an actual fanbase with likable Howe at the helm; you'll have to go full-on City-mode to buy him.

 

Our management group believes they are the smartest guys in the room, and after firing Maldini--who took the team from mid-table to Champions of the league and a CL semi-final in four years while spending less money than West Ham--and they have to prove it now. They've installed this man named Moncada, famous for working with current PSG sporting director Campos and helped him build that famous Monaco side (Bernardo Silva, Mbappe, Fabinho, etc) and he's been part of Maldini's team in getting much of world-class talent like Mike Maignan, Theo Hernandez, Rafa Leao, etc and now Moncada is our sporting director.

 

Point being, if we sold Tonali, it means that we want to upgrade and the ownership believes they have the man and the data analytics team to be smarter than everyone else. I'm skeptical that they can do it as easily without Maldini, who I think was a huge part of our success and in getting our best players not just to come to Milan, but to extend with us--he's given our boys the passion and leadership to grow as players, to support them to grow, and served as a shield from the overly critical Italian media. Maldini is one of the true gentlemen of the game. He also knows how to find players.

 

For example, after we passed on Botman, we went after Malick Thiaw, for 6m. The kid is starting for Germany now, he's imperious. Not only do we have Tomori (how does he not get called up for England? He's... he's incredible) and Kalulu, another young star at CB, as well as Kjaer, captain of Denmark. So... CB is not a priority for us. Attack is where we need work, and midfield, since Bennacer, Tonali's midfield partner, had serious knee surgery for an injury that kept him out of our CL semi-final against Inter. If only we had Leao and Bennacer, we would have been in the final. Seeing City play that poorly, we could have beaten them.

 

Long story short: If we sell Tonali for 50m, euros, I'd be an 11. If we sold him for 120m sterling, I'd be a 4, depending on how good his replacement would be.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Milanista

[elbee909]

Can we sign Milanista to become a Newcastle fan? I think I'd prefer that over Tonali.

[mattypnufc]

Can’t wait to sign him for £50m just to see the fume. 

[elbee909]

3 minutes ago, mattypnufc said:

Can’t wait to sign him for £50m just to see the fume. 

 

[Milanista]

7 minutes ago, mattypnufc said:

Can’t wait to sign him for £50m just to see the fume. 

I can't wait to see you pretend you weren't salivating over Tonali when he turns you down.

[mattypnufc]

Just now, Milanista said:

I can't wait to see you pretend you weren't salivating over Tonali when he turns you down.

Genuinely never heard of him until this story so absolutely not arsed ?. Sounds good. If we get him then fair, but I don’t know enough about Serie A these days to care. 

[Milanista]

Just now, mattypnufc said:

Genuinely never heard of him until this story so absolutely not arsed ?. Sounds good. If we get him then fair, but I don’t know enough about Serie A these days to care. 

Sure, sure. You don't care.

[elbee909]

I think, like all supporters, we just want something to happen.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by elbee909

[Milanista]

1 minute ago, elbee909 said:

I think, like all supporters, we just want something to happen.

 

 

 

Milan fans are convinced that we are the slowest club in the world, we cannot sell anyone that we need to move on, we never close deals and always let them drag on unlike X or Y club.

 

Besides the fact that you guys are very warm and welcoming, seeing that we all have the same complaints has calmed my nerves down quite a bit.

[r0cafella]

I admire @Milanistaconfidence ?

[elbee909]

It's the equivalent of us selling Bruno, except if Bruno was actually born in Newcastle.

[Milanista]

15 hours ago, r0cafella said:

I admire @Milanistaconfidence ?

x

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Milanista

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, elbee909 said:

It's the equivalent of us selling Bruno, except if Bruno was actually born in Newcastle.

 

Except Newcastle haven't hit their ceiling. What can Milan do that'll beat the last two years? 

[Scoot]

5 hours ago, Milanista said:

Let me cut to the chase: you're not getting Tonali.

 

I read through this thread, and... I have to address some of the things I've read in here. It's my nature. I apologize ahead of time.

 

Milan is currently the most healthy club, financially, in Italy. Inter are mountains of debt, and their owners, unlike Juve's, are unable/unwilling to put money into Inter. Inter are going to be selling. You would have a much bigger chance at Barella than you would Tonali. Inter need money, Milan do not.

 

You aren't going to get Tonali for 50m, by the way. Maybe they will pick up the phone for 100m, if Declan Rice is going for that.

 

Tonali is better in a midfield three, that's where he played before coming to Milan, but he's such a talent that he can play in our double pivot. His first year at Milan was tough, because he had to get used to the double pivot of our 4231. His second year, we won the league, and he was... a lion. I think people have underrated him this year, as he has been run into the ground, and asked to cover more ground than ever before. He's running an extra kilometer more than the second most on our team, each game, consistently. He's been run ragged this year and is constantly putting out fires.

 

People who think he had an average year this year are... judging him on a curve. Our tactics have shifted from a genuine 4231 to more of a 42... attack! This has left our midfield and defense more exposed, as our manager has... he's had a poor season. There were rumors swirling that he was going to get fired, with reports that Maldini wanted to fire him (some say Pirlo others say Italiano [coach of Fiorentina]), but our new owners fired Paolo Maldini instead--who turned our team around, as our new ownership shifts completely into its "Moneyball" approach to building up a team.

 

I also find the idea that we can't compete for the title or for the CL anytime soon... funny. Our team is still extremely young and if we add the right pieces, and our manager wakes up from his stupor, we are one of the best teams in Europe, like it or not, say we're lucky or not, without injuries to two of our best players in the semis (Leao and Bennacer) and we probably get to the CL final instead of Inter--and unlike Inter, our problems aren't against big teams, we actually tend to tear them to shreds. I'm not sure if you saw, but we... embarrassed Napoli 4-0 in their own stadium, and any team that opens up and attacks us. Our problem (well, our manager's problem), tactically, is that we struggle when we play small teams that defend in low-blocks. Provincial teams, like Inter.

 

We just extended Rafa Leao, when he was supposedly going to be tempted by the Premier League--I think that temptation is overrated when you are at a club like Milan--and we also extended Bennacer, Theo Hernandez, Tomori, Kalulu, and a whole host of our stars. In short, we're not going to lose anyone we don't want to.

 

However, let's say that the caricature that Italian teams are all struggling applied to Milan (it doesn't) but even if it did... we actually can't afford to let Tonali go. We don't have enough Italians in our squad, and we have to get rid of non-Italian trained players (players who have had their youth careers in Italy, regardless of nationality) to make room, and are currently seeking Italian players to add as useful backup players while finding ways to fit our new players into the squad lists.

 

So even if we did have to sell Tonali (we don't) then it would be better for us to sell Maignan, or Tomori, or Kalulu, or anyone else except Tonali.

 

Of course, I could be wrong. Our ownership did just fire Maldini for... asking for more money as he wants to win the CL now rather than in a few years. Maldini publicly demanded he wanted Milan to push for titles the year before, which firing him has put our ownership in a corner over what their ambitions are. Ownership has went out of its way to assert that their ambitions are still the same even without Maldini, and that they aim to be among the elite in Europe. For Milan, the CL is our identity, our DNA, and it is what most Milan fans value over anything else.

 

So maybe we do sell Tonali? I doubt it, mostly due to our problem with having enough Italians. Plus, the kid took a pay cut to extend with us, to make sure he could get the loan turned into something permanent, and the club (Maldini) put their faith in him after a bad first year and he exploded. He was then rewarded with an extension and a pay rise afterward. He's a boyhood Milan fan, he's destined to be one of our future captains, along with Theo Hernandez, and this squad really does not want to leave Milan. They have bought into the rebuild of Milan.

 

Now Barella versus Tonali...

 

Is Barella better than Tonali? It's a weird comparison, because... They play in such wildly different systems. Barella is far less exposed, does far less defensive work, covers less ground, and is given more license to go forward. He plays as a RCM in a 352 and isn't as exposed to open space at Inter that he would if he played for Milan.

 

I also think the fact that Tonali is three years younger is a huge element that is overlooked.

 

If Barella played at Milan he wouldn't be able to handle our double-pivot, most likely, he'd play as our CAM. So... comparisons between the two are... odd, it's like comparing Lampard and Roy Keane rather than Gerrard and Lampard, and I know that isn't an exact parallel for Barella and Tonali, but... I hope you get my meaning, they are actually very different players. When they both play for Italy, there isn't a headache about fitting them in together like Gerrard and Lampard, they actually play together well, and... they do different things.

 

When they play together for Italy, Tonali is the anchor, CDM, while Barella is always an RCM. He isn't as versatile as Tonali is. You can play Tonali further forward, you can play him as an RCM or LCM in a midfield three, but his passing range is underrated (he isn't Pirlo, but he's still got great vision) and I think is colored by this year being a tough one for Milan (despite us getting to a CL semi-final lol) as our attack was still the problem, putting more pressure on our defense and midfield.

 

Do I think Barella is a good fit for Newcastle? If you want to play him as an LCM/RCM in a midfield three, yeah, maybe? He's petulant, though. He doesn't take his lumps, brush himself off, and get on with it. He's a far more... Italian sort of midfielder. He's more suited to the Italian game than he would be for the Prem. He yells at his own teammates, complains to refs constantly, while being one of Italy's golden boys, so it's not like refs are going to let opponents kick lumps into him.

 

I don't think Barella would suit you, to be honest. He's a great player, there's no doubt, but he doesn't have the mentality for the Prem. Maybe he'd adjust? He's a very good player, but it all matters what you want from a midfielder.

 

If you're going to continue with your tactical setup that you have now, it could work. If you want a more attacking LB instead then... Tonali would be the better buy, but... I doubt you're going to get Tonali. If you want him to play as your LCM and you get a more attacking LB, then... Botman is going to be left on islands, and there's a reason why Howe plays a CB as LB for your guys. Mind you, this isn't just something Howe did, but at Lille, Djalo, a CB, was played as a LB with Botman, so if you get Barella, and he's playing as your LCM... that could upset the balance of your setup. If he's your RCM, that might be better.

 

Don't get me wrong, Barella is a great player, and if you want someone who offers more attacking threat from your RCM spot, then there are few midfielders in the world who do a better job than him. But he's constantly protected in Inter's 352 system, he doesn't just have a CB and CDM behind him but a RWB to shield him, and I think that in your 433, as it morphs, it would require Barella to put in more defensive work than he's used to--but he's done that while playing in Italy's 433, so he can probably do it.

 

But back to Tonali? The idea that Milan would sell Tonali for 50m is... it's hilarious. When Chelsea wanted Leao, we pointed to his release clause, which was 125 or 150m? His new release clause was just raised to 175m. When Chelsea asked us for Maignan, Milan won't pick up for the phone for anything less than 90m, and reports are that 90m was still considered too low for Maignan. Our goalkeeper. What do you think we'll say about Tonali?

 

Our owners just fired Maldini, who only extended his stay with them because he publicly demanded more money for transfers (which he didn't get)--but he also made demands about ambitions and that he wanted to win, and the new owners cannot really afford to sell Tonali, without causing havoc with the fans, but even then, let's say that Milan is poor and desperate (we aren't) like Inter (they are) because of the homegrown rules, we need to keep Tonali in the squad, anyway.

 

Do I think this story is real? Sure. I'm sure Newcastle did approach Milan for Tonali. Lots of reputable sources are putting it out there. My guess is that our ownership is leaking it so that when we turn them away, they can look like heroes. Our new ownership has been dishing out dirt on Maldini, leaking his supposed "plans" for Milan to justify why they fired him. They want to shore up fan support and what better way than to turn down Newcastle and EPL money?

 

There's no way he gets sold for anything less than 75m sterling. He's still eligible for U21 duty.

 

I tried to use bold, italics, and underlines to break things up and give you a very thorough breakdown of things. I hope this helped. I always enjoy talking with you guys.

 

Oh! And I told you so that Newcastle could make top four!

 

 

 

 

Didn't we have Milan fans on here last summer telling us how great they were and why Botman would sign for them and not us? Or was that on twitter?

[Milanista]

3 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

Except Newcastle haven't hit their ceiling. What can Milan do that'll beat the last two years? 

Uh. We want to... win the Champions League. We want to win more Serie A titles.

 

Not sure if you've heard about what Milan is all about. We've won the Champions League seven times. We were in the semi-final this year, with one of the youngest teams in the competition.

[Whitley mag]

4 minutes ago, Scoot said:

 

Didn't we have Milan fans on here last summer telling us how great they were and why Botman would sign for them and not us? Or was that on twitter?

I do like how he subtly mentions after they passed on Botman.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Milanista said:

Uh. We want to... win the Champions League. We want to win more Serie A titles.

 

Not sure if you've heard about what Milan is all about. We've won the Champions League seven times. We were in the semi-final this year, with one of the youngest teams in the competition.

 

He's won Serie A. You won't win the CL any time soon. The furthest in the last 16 years before that was the Quarter Finals. 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Optimistic Nut

[Milanista]

15 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

He's won Serie A. You won't win the CL any time soon.

x

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Milanista