Holloway Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 3 minutes ago, KaKa said: I think I moreso liked the balance of the midfield three at the time. I wanted to believe he was top class, but as time has gone on and we've had more evidence, I'm just not seeing it. To some extent I also blame the setup, as I'm not convinced he's a 6. And at this point I just don't know what he is, but it's just not working. Had that superb spell and deserved most of the plaudits, albeit some of it way over the top. Since then his limitations have been amplified, the sloppy delivery ,losing his man defending attacks and a reluctance to drop deep and collect to build attacks. If the fee was around 70m I'd take it in the summer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny1403 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 50 minutes ago, KaKa said: You see someone like Alex Scott bossing the game away at the Emirates, playing in a Bournemouth midfield alongside Malcolm Christie for goodness sake, and with Hill and Senesi behind him at centre back, and he's still finding pockets to get the ball and make things happen for his team. Getting them a victory. Then we have Tonali who has the luxury of Thiaw and Botman behind him, who are far more capable of finding him with a pass if he can be bothered to make himself available, not to mention Joelinton and Miley alongside him to combine with, against a Palace side sitting back and looking lethargic most of the game and the game just passes him by. It's a damn shame really. When you take into account the fact he didn't even play a whole season with the gambling and then how this season has gone, spending £60 million on this guy was regrettable. Thankfully there seems to be a lot of hype around him for some reason and so hopefully there's a sizeable profit to be had this summer. Christ, Alex Scott must be good if he’s playing alongside a 47 year old in the midfield Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 2 minutes ago, Holloway said: Had that superb spell and deserved most of the plaudits, albeit some of it way over the top. Since then his limitations have been amplified, the sloppy delivery ,losing his man defending attacks and a reluctance to drop deep and collect to build attacks. If the fee was around 70m I'd take it in the summer Thankfully he's got a bit of hype still and just have to hope a disastrous end to the season doesn't spoil that. At the moment it's looking like it will be more around the £80 million to £90 million mark. Maybe he goes elsewhere and is played more as a box to box midfielder alongside someone else in a double pivot, and that works better for him. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like any kind of different setup is going to be tried with him at Newcastle, and so it's all just become a bit pointless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) The second best CM in my lifetime. Not going to disparage him. He is a bit of a deluxe Scott Parker under Roeder at the moment. He needs a system that works. He doesn’t have the ability to do the Bruno/Stevie G thing or give me the ball and I will get us playing. Our attacking play has always looked off the cuff to me. Thats why when Schar and Joelinton don’t play, that RCB to LCM moving up and running across the defensive line move doesn’t happen. Or that right sided combo - that was natural. Tonali, Osula, Murphy/Elanga, Tino, Joelinton, Miley (fresh off injury mind) - there’s not enough football in that. That group needs a lot of coaching on the ball and I don’t think Howe does that. Throw in a Bruno G and a prime Trippier and it’s a lot easier to make that side work. That elevates the others game. Tonali has great character as a footballer and I think that’s rare. I always thought Sissoko was similar. Another great athlete but limited on the ball. In a shit team where they are the best players, they get a lot of stick because they get on the ball a lot and don’t have the ability to do much with it. Edited April 13 by The College Dropout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 One thing that grinds me is going into a players thread like a Bruno or Gordon or Tonali. Some of our very best players. And several posters keen to sell them at X price point and talking like selling them is going to help make us a better team. With elite scouting and great pull, sometimes a team can sell one or two of their best players - replace them with better and improve. But that is rare. The finances of the game are what they are. But some look forward to it. Gordon is at worst our second best winger. Tonali same for CM. I’m in no rush to see them leave. And I’ve never been as high as most here on either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellis80 Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 He’s been here three years, missed a year suspended, couldn’t get a game for months after he came back then has been shite for most of this season while wanting to leave. Doesn’t sound a great character or one of our best ever midfielders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holloway Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 29 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: One thing that grinds me is going into a players thread like a Bruno or Gordon or Tonali. Some of our very best players. And several posters keen to sell them at X price point and talking like selling them is going to help make us a better team. With elite scouting and great pull, sometimes a team can sell one or two of their best players - replace them with better and improve. But that is rare. The finances of the game are what they are. But some look forward to it. Gordon is at worst our second best winger. Tonali same for CM. I’m in no rush to see them leave. And I’ve never been as high as most here on either. The context here is that he apparently wants away, his agent has been doing a fair bit of mouthing off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 1 hour ago, The College Dropout said: The second best CM in my lifetime. If the second best central midfielder in your lifetime "doesn't have the ability to do much with the ball" then you must be much younger than I thought. Personally, not convinced he's the second best midfielder in the squad right now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 32 minutes ago, Holloway said: The context here is that he apparently wants away, his agent has been doing a fair bit of mouthing off If he’s to be sold so be it. As a fan, I don’t understand the drive to dream up price points for selling your best players. The fact he’s been pap for sometime is my issue with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holloway Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: If he’s to be sold so be it. As a fan, I don’t understand the drive to dream up price points for selling your best players. The fact he’s been pap for sometime is my issue with him. Well we need quite the rebuild so it's looking at where the best value lies in sale assets v replaceability. In that department Miley has shown he has more than enough to step in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 10 minutes ago, SEMTEX said: If the second best central midfielder in your lifetime "doesn't have the ability to do much with the ball" then you must be much younger than I thought. Personally, not convinced he's the second best midfielder in the squad right now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Comfortably better than Cabaye, Speed for me. Tonali would run Cabaye ragged. I think Rice has his limitations on the ball, better than Tonali but he’s limited too. Similar with Casemiro. Casemiro can makes things happen but he’s also not the greatest on the ball. We’ve never had a midfielder as physically dominant, stamina and at his best just a smart operator. He’s dominated many a game with his IQ and physicality. Again, he’s never meant to be a playmaker. He’s never had that skill set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 5 minutes ago, Holloway said: Well we need quite the rebuild so it's looking at where the best value lies in sale assets v replaceability. In that department Miley has shown he has more than enough to step in If you want to fantasise about selling your best players fine. The thing is.. Miley hasn’t. I’ve never seen a Newcastle midfield dominate at Old Trafford until Tonali rocked up. And there’s nothing in our history to suggest we can replace 2 of the midfielders involved and then do it again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 I wouldn’t give up on Tonali but I’m obviously very disappointed about how he’s doing at the moment. Still covers loads of ground and helps defensively so much, but everything else has been dire. I think with everyone we just need a summer off and go again. Tonali should benefit a lot since he’s not playing in the World Cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holloway Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 10 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: If you want to fantasise about selling your best players fine. The thing is.. Miley hasn’t. I’ve never seen a Newcastle midfield dominate at Old Trafford until Tonali rocked up. And there’s nothing in our history to suggest we can replace 2 of the midfielders involved and then do it again. I'm not fantasising, I'm trying to be pragmatic. A sale of one or two of our best players is looking likely to fund the rebuild. Miley will end up every bit as good as Tonali, princess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) As someone that grew up playing CM/FM the whole giddiness to sell your best players feels FM-tastic. You sell your best player at 25 and get in a 19 yo regen that’s better in every way. In real life you sell Laurent Robert then sign Damien fucking Duff. We signed Gordon almost 4 years ago. We’ve not signed a better attacker than him (can maybe argue 1) than him in the last 4 years. Why does the idea of selling him give ppl boners? We’ve just spent £200m on worse attackers. I’ve never rated Gordon as highly as most here but I’m in no rush to sell him. Zero. Edited April 13 by The College Dropout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Personally would play Bruno and Sandro together in central midfield. Can’t see why that wouldn’t allow a better platform to control the ball so much better and protect the defence adequately. Add whatever else needs to be added and whatever formation best allows our best players to play to their best. Something we’ve not been doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holloway Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Giddiness indeed, your condescension is insufferable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 You’re talking about replacing Tonali with a 20 year old. I can’t take you seriously. I think Miley could go on to great things but if he replaces Tonali that makes us a weaker team. Miley might be better than Tonali ever was (and that is unlikely) but he won’t be that player next season. As a team we have taken a step back this season. I don’t think you and most others are ready for us to be worse again in many ways next season (maybe not points wise with a lack of Europe). And that’s what will most likely happen if we sell 2-3 of our best players. This is a club management with zero track record too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holloway Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 44 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: You’re talking about replacing Tonali with a 20 year old. I can’t take you seriously. I think Miley could go on to great things but if he replaces Tonali that makes us a weaker team. Miley might be better than Tonali ever was (and that is unlikely) but he won’t be that player next season. As a team we have taken a step back this season. I don’t think you and most others are ready for us to be worse again in many ways next season (maybe not points wise with a lack of Europe). And that’s what will most likely happen if we sell 2-3 of our best players. This is a club management with zero track record too. I didn't say replace Tonali with Miley, I said he's looking like a capable stand in going forward. The Tonali sale if it is around the 80m mark goes towards the rebuild,which may well include further strengthening the midfield. It's hardly a difficult concept whether you play champ manager or not or whatever it's called Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Unfortunately for me he seemed to have checked out soon after he made the comment about potentially leaving. He's not the same player as last season - no where close. It was more than just a purple patch - am not having that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 53 minutes ago, Holloway said: I didn't say replace Tonali with Miley, I said he's looking like a capable stand in going forward. The Tonali sale if it is around the 80m mark goes towards the rebuild,which may well include further strengthening the midfield. It's hardly a difficult concept whether you play champ manager or not or whatever it's called I'm almost 100% certain the team would function better with Miley in that position ahead of Tonali. We'd for sure keep the ball better, and string together more convincing passages of play with the football more often. He's also far more likely to get you a goal or an assist even from that position. All I consistently see Tonali do that really stands out is running back to take the ball off someone when a team is coming at us in transition. Even with winning the ball back he doesn't tend to do so as much outside of those transition moments. I cannot believe the fuss made over this guy. I keep watching and looking for more and I never see it. I really do wish he was actually as good as we keep being told he is, especially by the media. That would actually be really nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fak Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 TCD dropping truth bombs as usual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 6 hours ago, The College Dropout said: The second best CM in my lifetime. Not going to disparage him. He is a bit of a deluxe Scott Parker under Roeder at the moment. He needs a system that works. He doesn’t have the ability to do the Bruno/Stevie G thing or give me the ball and I will get us playing. Our attacking play has always looked off the cuff to me. Thats why when Schar and Joelinton don’t play, that RCB to LCM moving up and running across the defensive line move doesn’t happen. Or that right sided combo - that was natural. Tonali, Osula, Murphy/Elanga, Tino, Joelinton, Miley (fresh off injury mind) - there’s not enough football in that. That group needs a lot of coaching on the ball and I don’t think Howe does that. Throw in a Bruno G and a prime Trippier and it’s a lot easier to make that side work. That elevates the others game. Tonali has great character as a footballer and I think that’s rare. I always thought Sissoko was similar. Another great athlete but limited on the ball. In a shit team where they are the best players, they get a lot of stick because they get on the ball a lot and don’t have the ability to do much with it. Very much agree with this. Tonali has been poor this season, I don't know if that's because his heart's not in it any more, but he looked our best midfielder last season. Bruno can do more on the ball, but Tonali at his marauding best swallows up space, closes down opponents, and is in constant motion offering an out ball. He must be a dream teammate, a player who is at the heart of everything. I don't know what's happened to him this season, but he looked fantastic for the previous two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Not sure if he will stay or go, or even if Edward stays or goes but one of the main priorities is getting the midfield to work next season. I think finding a winger that has some actual ability and can create would help out a lot and ease the pressure on the midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilovetoon8788 Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 After this horrible season we really need a great reset. I'm OK with anyone or everyone leaving. Especially those with very weak mentality like tonali. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now