Swazzdro Tonali

[Kid Icarus]

6 minutes ago, Pilko said:

You can't put any blame on Tonali for tonight, surely? Overlooked in favour of Longstaff yet again and then expected to get us out of the clarts in a midfield two with a vaguely shaped shower of shit around him and Bruno on one leg when he's finally introduced.

 

It's not blame, it's a response to this supposedly obvious decision that Howe should be making to start him over Longstaff. Whatever their differences in talent, Tonali isn't making it a hard decision for Howe, let alone an easy one to start him.

 

 

Edited November 25 by Kid Icarus

[TheBrownBottle]

5 minutes ago, nufc123 said:

Tonight? Against City, Chelsea, Everton he was a problem? We are judging a player who either comes on when we are chasing or starting when the whole team looks a mess. Of course hes part of the problem but so are Schar, Pope, Bruno, Gordon, Isak, Longstaff, Joelinton, Willock. 

I said he played well when played deeper - and the only win in those games was vs Chelsea’s reserves in the LC.  We won the previous two games before tonight with Longstaff starting in his place.

 

Tonali is hardly to blame for tonight, but the constant ‘we need him in the side’ clamouring as if he’s the missing link is what I’m arguing against.  He hasn’t looked anything like at the level in his time here so far.  Hopefully that changes, but I don’t think Howe has made a terrible error in not starting based on what we’ve seen so far. 

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

He's going to play, it's inevitable. There's just no way Longstaff or anyone but Bruno can do enough to keep him out forever. 

There’s nothing inevitable about it - he hasn’t earned his place to date.  And it’s not guaranteed he will - plenty of clubs have made expensive signings that don’t work out.  Cost is no guarantee 

[nufc123]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I said he played well when played deeper - and the only win in those games was vs Chelsea’s reserves in the LC.  We won the previous two games before tonight with Longstaff starting in his place.

 

Tonali is hardly to blame for tonight, but the constant ‘we need him in the side’ clamouring as if he’s the missing link is what I’m arguing against.  He hasn’t looked anything like at the level in his time here so far.  Hopefully that changes, but I don’t think Howe has made a terrible error in not starting based on what we’ve seen so far. 

Agree with some of your points. Judge him after ten starts, not when the whole team is bad. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, nufc123 said:

Agree with some of your points. Judge him after ten starts, not when the whole team is bad. 

That’s fair enough I think.  It would be a disaster for the club if he doesn’t work out.  I of course hope he does - I’m just not confident at the moment

[HaydnNUFC]

1 minute ago, Yorkie said:

 

Complete mystery why you keep going after Barnes; he's been good for us and provides the only really quality attacker that we have 'in depth.' Meanwhile the other two signings you don't mention have established themselves as starters and are regularly two of our best players. 

 

Jury still out on the Tonali signing but it would take someone very optimistic to say anything other than its been a bit of a disaster so far. 

 

I'm not going after Barnes the player, but the £40m outlay on him when we constantly whinge about PSR, whilst the RW remains the shambles it was when Ashley was owner. Regardless of that, his contributions seem to only come from the bench, the manager picked Murphy ahead of him regualrly in the run in last season and still doesn't consistently start him. £40m's worth? I'm not sure.

 

The other two didn't start regular matches until March 2024 after being signed in August 2023. But they have improved.

 

And yep. He appeared to be the marquee signing and the manager has thus far failed to integrate him into the team. With the money spent, and when we constantly claim to be PSR victims, it's shite.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

There’s nothing inevitable about it - he hasn’t earned his place to date.  And it’s not guaranteed he will - plenty of clubs have made expensive signings that don’t work out.  Cost is no guarantee 

 

My point's not about cost, it's about his quality. 

 

I didn't say he had earned his place to date, although I think he should get it anyway. I said I think it's inevitable that he is too good to leave out eventually. Especially when Longstaff is so bad and Willock is so inconsistent. 

 

 

Edited November 25 by AyeDubbleYoo

[r0cafella]

Was obviously super exiting when we signed him but damn this isn't going how we imagined it would. 

[The College Dropout]

13 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Was obviously super exiting when we signed him but damn this isn't going how we imagined it would. 

If willoxk was injured would’ve liked to have seen him on in his place but swapping roles with Bruno like they did previously. 

[Erikse]

2 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I’d kill to know if Howe really wanted the lad in the first place.  The only time he’s looked at the level was playing deeper - which is where we have Bruno.  Still scratching my head re this signing, not even allowing for his ‘indiscretions’.  

 

I've already made these points in a different thread, but every indication points to Howe wanting him. Him saying that they spent so much on him because he himself watched him at Milan and loved what he saw, starting him from day one, us generally going after players he liked, and so on.

 

 

Edited November 26 by Erikse

[McDog]

Just now, Erikse said:

 

I've already made these points about this in a different thread, but every indication points to Howe wanting him. Him saying that they spent so much on him because he himself watched him at Milan and loved what he saw, starting him from day one, us generally going after players he liked, his playstyle being similar to what Howe prefers, and so on.

 

Then why the fuck isn't he in the starting 11? He now thinks he's shite? You better sack Howe or sell the lad if that is the case.

 

[Erikse]

24 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

Then why the fuck isn't he in the starting 11? He now thinks he's shite? You better sack Howe or sell the lad if that is the case.

 

 

That's what I'm wondering aswell. I mean, he was in the starting 11 at the start of last season, but he got dropped after a while since he wasn't performing. Imo it's now a case as to whether he should be starting him, or whether he shouldn't have pushed for us to sign him in the first place. He might be feeling like he got that signing wrong atm (even when ignoring the ban).

 

That said, I think he might start against Palace

 

 

Edited November 26 by Erikse

[r0cafella]

22 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

If willoxk was injured would’ve liked to have seen him on in his place but swapping roles with Bruno like they did previously. 

Yeah I can see that, I think Tonali has to be the 6 if we stick with our current system, he has the legs which Bruno doesn't so he can actually function as a more traditional DM because he has the legs to cover the space our full backs leave. 

 

He can also carry the ball forward from deep as well and hopefully trigger a press which could open up some space for a Bruno to receive it higher up the pitch with a bit more space. 

 

As many others have pointed out, we've been found out, Bruno barely gets a kick most games and is usually marked out of the game, he's one of our best players so we have to free him up and get him in to those dangerous areas again. 

[Kanj]

8 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Yeah I can see that, I think Tonali has to be the 6 if we stick with our current system, he has the legs which Bruno doesn't so he can actually function as a more traditional DM because he has the legs to cover the space our full backs leave. 

 

He can also carry the ball forward from deep as well and hopefully trigger a press which could open up some space for a Bruno to receive it higher up the pitch with a bit more space. 

 

As many others have pointed out, we've been found out, Bruno barely gets a kick most games and is usually marked out of the game, he's one of our best players so we have to free him up and get him in to those dangerous areas again. 

the two of them would seem suited to building out of a double pivot with Bruno then getting a rcm / free role and Tonali at the base to push the ball quickly and recycle the quickly. Allows Bruno to do his thing once we leave that first phase, but also lets Tonali get far more involved in all phases. Willock should be LCM doing his thing. Joelinton and Gordon wide. 

[r0cafella]

5 minutes ago, Kanj said:

the two of them would seem suited to building out of a double pivot with Bruno then getting a rcm / free role and Tonali at the base to push the ball quickly and recycle the quickly. Allows Bruno to do his thing once we leave that first phase, but also lets Tonali get far more involved in all phases. Willock should be LCM doing his thing. Joelinton and Gordon wide. 

Aye it's an option but we the problem with say a 4231 is we still have that rancid right side and we don't have a player capable of playing as a 10. 

 

We've built our squad poorly and now we are both hamstrung by PSR and paying the price less than ideal long term planning. 

[TheBrownBottle]

16 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Aye it's an option but we the problem with say a 4231 is we still have that rancid right side and we don't have a player capable of playing as a 10. 

 

We've built our squad poorly and now we are both hamstrung by PSR and paying the price less than ideal long term planning. 

This is the nub of it.  Yes, PSR isn’t in our favour, but we’ve burned through our headroom and somehow did so without resolve some basic Ashley-era squad issues.  The RW and ‘10’ situations are just negligent. 

[cubaricho]

        Bruno       Tonali

 

Gordon                  Barnes

                       Isak

            Wilson

[r0cafella]

22 minutes ago, cubaricho said:

        Bruno       Tonali

 

Gordon                  Barnes

                       Isak

            Wilson

This will work for the 10 minutes Wilson is fit. Your better writing him of Cuba. Save yourself the disappointment. 

[cubaricho]

27 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

This will work for the 10 minutes Wilson is fit. Your better writing him of Cuba. Save yourself the disappointment. 

How about 

 

      Bruno       Tonali

 

Gordon                  Barnes

                       Isak

            Delap

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, cubaricho said:

How about 

 

      Bruno       Tonali

 

Gordon                  Barnes

                       Isak

            Delap

It's a no from me dog. 

 

Jokes aside, Delap would be massively overpriced and we still haven't solved our right wing or 10 issue, and one injury as we'd be ruined we don't change players capable of playing as Pivots. We just haven't built our squad that way. 

[Menace]

We need an AM to free Isak, not play Isak as SS

[TheBrownBottle]

We’ve got one of the world’s best CFs and we’re determined to play him out of position  

[cubaricho]

1 hour ago, Menace said:

We need an AM to free Isak, not play Isak as SS

 

That's where he plays and thrives with Sweden is it not?

[Menace]

"Thrives" against Azerbaijan and Estonia aye. Just don't understand what purpose playing him as a SS would achieve when his career has him as a CF

[Ikon]

Tonali wasn't very good at all overall last season. This season however when he has looked very good at times he hasn't exactly been rewarded with playing time despite having done well earlier as well as showing great form for Italy.Judging him on last night is absolutely laughable considering the circumstances. We looked all over the place and like headless chickens. Howe's very odd changes definitely didn't help.