Another question for those who properly remember the Keegan days

[Wullie]

Yes, no doubt. I'm also of the opinion that if Pav had played all season and not that useless fucker, Hislop (particularly as billytray says, at Ewood), we might well have won it too.

 

With Shay, no question as far as I'm concerned. You just have to look at the amount of points he saves us these days.

[Guest tyzer]

At the time Shay Given was 21/22 and was playing for swindon and sunderland on loan. He was nowhere near as good as he is now, so i don't think we would have won it with him.

 

Woodgate would have been 15/16 at the time, so again he would have been to young to help us win the league.

[Cajun]

At the time Shay Given was 21/22 and was playing for swindon and sunderland on loan. He was nowhere near as good as he is now, so i don't think we would have won it with him.

 

Woodgate would have been 15/16 at the time, so again he would have been to young to help us win the league.

 

I think he PROBABLY meant at the age they are now.... maybe?

[Mick]

I'm sure we dropped as many points while both were in goal, I'm not sure who played the most league games.

[Skeletor]

Yes, no doubt. I'm also of the opinion that if Pav had played all season and not that useless fucker, Hislop (particularly as billytray says, at Ewood), we might well have won it too.

 

With Shay, no question as far as I'm concerned. You just have to look at the amount of points he saves us these days.

 

I find that bizarre. I always felt safer with Hislop in goal (even though he wasn't that great either).

[Tooj]

Yes, no doubt. I'm also of the opinion that if Pav had played all season and not that useless fucker, Hislop (particularly as billytray says, at Ewood), we might well have won it too.

 

With Shay, no question as far as I'm concerned. You just have to look at the amount of points he saves us these days.

 

I find that bizarre. I always felt safer with Hislop in goal (even though he wasn't that great either).

 

Same here.

[NJS]

One of the problems was Keegan switching them near the end as if he didn't have the confidence in either (probably the case).

[tmonkey]

With Given, probably.

 

With a fit Woodgate, 100% guaranteed title.

[NUFC06]

ah dreams

[Mick]

I preferred Pav over Hislop.

[Dokko]

Given is a better keeper than Pav was but that in no way means Pav is the reason we won nothing, inability to kill a game off is what cost us in the end.

 

Too many injuries, shite players punching above their weight and too much pressure cost us the league.

 

[midds]

Too many other variables, but I doubt it. They just went on a fantastic run they're given no credit for, but it sounds better for the media to suggest we threw away a 12 point lead. We should have thrashed them at our place and that was the game that gave them heart.

 

If Chelsea win the league, it'll be interesting to find out if the media pounce upon the 9 pont lead Man Utd 'blew' in December '06...Somehow, i think they'll overlook that.  :roll:

[NJS]

Too many other variables, but I doubt it. They just went on a fantastic run they're given no credit for, but it sounds better for the media to suggest we threw away a 12 point lead. We should have thrashed them at our place and that was the game that gave them heart.

 

If Chelsea win the league, it'll be interesting to find out if the media pounce upon the 9 pont lead Man Utd 'blew' in December '06...Somehow, i think they'll overlook that.  :roll:

 

Man U lost a 13 point lead to arsenal in 98 I think it was. The problem is that is surrounded by other wins - not one "glorious" failure.

[midds]

Too many other variables, but I doubt it. They just went on a fantastic run they're given no credit for, but it sounds better for the media to suggest we threw away a 12 point lead. We should have thrashed them at our place and that was the game that gave them heart.

 

If Chelsea win the league, it'll be interesting to find out if the media pounce upon the 9 pont lead Man Utd 'blew' in December '06...Somehow, i think they'll overlook that.  :roll:

 

Man U lost a 13 point lead to arsenal in 98 I think it was. The problem is that is surrounded by other wins - not one "glorious" failure.

 

A good point!.........even so - will they bang on about incessantly??? :roll:

[merlin]

Given is a better keeper than Pav was but that in no way means Pav is the reason we won nothing, inability to kill a game off is what cost us in the end.

 

Agreed - I doubt whether the results at Anfield or Ewood Park would have been altered by having Given in goal.Shay is better in most aspects of being a GK, but he doesn't have Pav's height, and at Anfield, two of their goals were headers in the box, so I doubt if Given would have stopped them either.

Also, don't think Given would have stopped Cantona's goal at SJP - it was the result of bad defending on the far post that allowed the unspeakable Frenchman to sneak in, and he finished well.We could & should have massacred Man U at SJP, but even though we lost, it was a moral victory as we played them off the park - had Ferdinand scored just before half-time when Asprilla put him in, we would have got 2 or 3.

 

They DID go on a great run, but we should have held our nerve - we can always speculate with hindsight, but had KK been able to use players to kill off the games at Anfield/Ewood when we got in front, we would still have won, regardless of Man U.We lacked a hard, professional edge when we needed it, and clubs who win titles always have this - the only team ever to win a major trophy with all-out attack were Brazil in 1970, and they were a really brilliant side.Even then, they only had to play about 6 or 7 games to win the trophy - the League is a long slog, and you have to be able to dig in sometimes.

I know many NUFC fans don't like that, but that's reality.

That season killed us off as realistic challengers - certainly for the foreseeable future, and maybe for ever.

[merlin]

Yes, no doubt. I'm also of the opinion that if Pav had played all season and not that useless fucker, Hislop (particularly as billytray says, at Ewood), we might well have won it too.

 

With Shay, no question as far as I'm concerned. You just have to look at the amount of points he saves us these days.

 

I find that bizarre. I always felt safer with Hislop in goal (even though he wasn't that great either).

 

Disagree - neither were top class, but Hislop was much slower at getting down to ground shots than Pav - once saw Pav make a really tremendous save at SJP against Everton ; ball hit defender & Pav was going wrong way - changed direction in mid-leap, and not only stopped it, but held the ball too.

[Guest Li3nZ]

Let's get this out of the way, if you aren't even old enough to remember the Keegan days then any further points you make on this forum are all null and void.

 

Secondly, I think having Given in net would have given us a fighting chance of holding onto that lead. In fact I'm certain there are more than four games lost where Pav or Shaka were to blame but as we know it's not as straightforward as that and it really doesn't matter anyway because we didn't have him.

 

So basically, the answer is maybe.

[Wullie]

Yes, no doubt. I'm also of the opinion that if Pav had played all season and not that useless fucker, Hislop (particularly as billytray says, at Ewood), we might well have won it too.

 

With Shay, no question as far as I'm concerned. You just have to look at the amount of points he saves us these days.

 

I find that bizarre. I always felt safer with Hislop in goal (even though he wasn't that great either).

 

Disagree - neither were top class, but Hislop was much slower at getting down to ground shots than Pav - once saw Pav make a really tremendous save at SJP against Everton ; ball hit defender & Pav was going wrong way - changed direction in mid-leap, and not only stopped it, but held the ball too.

 

Gordon Banks himself said that was one of the greatest saves he'd ever seen. The shot was from Anders Limpar and it hit Steve Howey on the way iirc.

 

I'd love to see it again.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

people forgetting 1 small fact here:

 

the difference came down to STRIKERS, and had fuck all to do with keepers

 

at home, we only scored 2 more than Man U and let in the same amount as them, however away from home, Man U scored 9 more than us, compared to letting in only 2 goals less than us, resulting in a difference of 3 away wins for them compared to 2 draws and a loss

 

i.e. unless people think Given now is better than Schmeichel was then (which some could argue I guess), he would have made jack shit difference (as I said in the third post btw  bluebiggrin.gif )

 

even worse, swapping Schmeichel for both Hislop and Pav would have also made no difference