NUFC Transfer Rumours

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

Kaka my friend, us offering 50m for Elanga 12 months after he joined forest for 15m represents a lot of failures to be honest. 
 

it’s a massive recruitment failure and one we can’t afford, if we liked the look of him take the chance at 15m don’t wait for half decent season and for the valuation to be 50m+. This is precisely how you run into PSR issues through a lack of long term strategy and planning. 

Aye. This why I’m questioning PIF. Why are management so risk averse?

[Andy84]

Cos the regime don’t like it man 

[80]

7 hours ago, r0cafella said:

Given the sums they are paying they are putting the trust in the management team they appoint for top dollar to perform. 

One interesting little claim in Hope's article was that Freedman didn't join due to unhappiness with the remuneration offer.

[KaKa]

9 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Kaka my friend, us offering 50m for Elanga 12 months after he joined forest for 15m represents a lot of failures to be honest. 
 

it’s a massive recruitment failure and one we can’t afford, if we liked the look of him take the chance at 15m don’t wait for half decent season and for the valuation to be 50m+. This is precisely how you run into PSR issues through a lack of long term strategy and planning. 

 

I'm not arguing that we should have signed him though.

 

My point was that whether you like us going for him now or not, the £50 million is not a crazy value, when you look around at what is going on in the market.

 

Also, if you want a player producing the goods in the league, you're going to have to pay up. If he shows up at your club and does even better your team does better, and his value increases further.

 

Getting hung up on what the previous team paid for him doesn't make sense. That ship has sailed. Oddly enough I remember wondering if we should have taken a punt at the time, but we were asleep.

 

We only paid £10 million less for Gordon, who had shown no production, or underlying numbers at Everton. To much complaining and hand wringing.

 

But now if anyone shows up for Gordon, they have to pony up, what,  £80 million?, because he performed. I doubt we'd care if Everton had bought him for £5 million from Scunthorpe the year before.

 

 

[Bunk Moreland]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

the £50 million is not a crazy value, when you look around at what is going on in the market.

 

 

Agreed. Also think if we went for him in July we could have negotiated a much better deal anyway, possibly even offloading a further squad player in part-exchange in the process.

[KaKa]

24 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I’ve no issue with the fee. 
 

My issue is the strategy. We should look to sign the next Elanga, the next Minteh.  We seem to have pressure to deliver results immediately but we don’t really have the overall finances for that.  
 

Btw Elanga’s output is good. But his underlying stats aren’t so impressive. 

 

Yeah, I was responding to the comments about the fee.

 

I agree about the strategy. We miss out on these guys a lot lately, when they are much more affordable. It's how we started off, but now we've gone away from it, and I hate that.

 

However, it seems we're now committed to Prem proven, which quite frankly is pretty ridiculous.

 

I love production especially at that young an age. There's still a ton of room for growth and improvement. We saw it last season with our guy, whose production and underlying numbers were even worse at his previous club.

 

 

Edited September 1 by KaKa

[KaKa]

3 minutes ago, Bunk Moreland said:

Agreed. Also think if we went for him in July we could have negotiated a much better deal anyway, possibly even offloading a further squad player in part-exchange in the process.

 

This is a great point. Showing up on the last day doesn't help.

 

It's all so infuriating really.

[r0cafella]

29 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

I'm not arguing that we should have signed him though.

 

My point was that whether you like us going for him now or not, the £50 million is not a crazy value, when you look around at what is going on in the market.

 

Also, if you want a player producing the goods in the league, you're going to have to pay up. If he shows up at your club and does even better your team does better, and his value increases further.

 

Getting hung up on what the previous team paid for him doesn't make sense. That ship has sailed. Oddly enough I remember wondering if we should have taken a punt at the time, but we were asleep.

 

We only paid £10 million less for Gordon, who had shown no production, or underlying numbers at Everton. To much complaining and hand wringing.

 

But now if anyone shows up for Gordon, they have to pony up, what,  £80 million?, because he performed. I doubt we'd care if Everton had bought him for £5 million from Scunthorpe the year before.

 

 

it is crazy value and the same with Guehi when the second word out of the clubs mouth at every turn is PSR. 

 

We complain about it all the time and despite that, we still insist to buy such players for such ridiculous fees. They simply have to be smarter than that, the PSR cries are becoming intolerable to me as we aren't maximizing our revenue and we seem to loathe shopping in cheaper markets where we can get value for money or players we can flip for profit. 

 

But it doesn't matter anyways, we are heading for a reckoning with lots of players out of contract so the club will sink or swim within the next 24 months. 

[Geordie_once_removed]

I think and hope Tonali starts. For me you start with your strongest team and he's in ours. Have the game plan around him coming off at 60 minutes, Longstaff did well when he came on on Wednesday. I'm excited to Bruno and Tonali and a midfield that has been designed and trained around them playing together, unlike on Wednesday where I don't think it was in the original plan to play Bruno at all.

[RobsonsWonderland]

51 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Aye. This why I’m questioning PIF. Why are management so risk averse?

Man U would not have sold him to us for 15 million

 

And the fees have exploded this summer for players outside the top level.

 

League one Birmingham have just spent 15 million on a forward.. we have sold two players for 35 million each who have limited experience.

[r0cafella]

Just now, RobsonsWonderland said:

Man U would not have sold him to us for 15 million

 

And the fees have exploded this summer for players outside the top level.

 

League one Birmingham have just spent 15 million on a forward.. we have sold two players for 35 million each who have limited experience.

The Birmingham deal is such an outlier man, let's not quote that one.

 

They may not have sold him for 15m last season (they would have because he was surplus to requirements) but would we have paid 50m for him then? Of course not.

 

The point I'm making is, we need long term planning in order to meet our goals, we can't do things by the seat of the pants like throwing daft bids on Deadline day, that's what disorganized teams do.

[KingArthur]

43 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

I'm not arguing that we should have signed him though.

 

My point was that whether you like us going for him now or not, the £50 million is not a crazy value, when you look around at what is going on in the market.

 

Also, if you want a player producing the goods in the league, you're going to have to pay up. If he shows up at your club and does even better your team does better, and his value increases further.

 

Getting hung up on what the previous team paid for him doesn't make sense. That ship has sailed. Oddly enough I remember wondering if we should have taken a punt at the time, but we were asleep.

 

We only paid £10 million less for Gordon, who had shown no production, or underlying numbers at Everton. To much complaining and hand wringing.

 

But now if anyone shows up for Gordon, they have to pony up, what,  £80 million?, because he performed. I doubt we'd care if Everton had bought him for £5 million from Scunthorpe the year before.

 

 

50 million for Elanga is crazy money. Just the kind of deal we shouldnt be making. 

[KaKa]

40 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

it is crazy value and the same with Guehi when the second word out of the clubs mouth at every turn is PSR. 

 

We complain about it all the time and despite that, we still insist to buy such players for such ridiculous fees. They simply have to be smarter than that, the PSR cries are becoming intolerable to me as we aren't maximizing our revenue and we seem to loathe shopping in cheaper markets where we can get value for money or players we can flip for profit. 

 

But it doesn't matter anyways, we are heading for a reckoning with lots of players out of contract so the club will sink or swim within the next 24 months. 

 

28 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

50 million for Elanga is crazy money. Just the kind of deal we shouldnt be making. 

 

It is crazy to both of you because you're speaking from your own personal feelings.

 

You are fast asleep, and not paying attention to what is happening in the transfer market.

[The College Dropout]

48 minutes ago, RobsonsWonderland said:

Man U would not have sold him to us for 15 million

 

And the fees have exploded this summer for players outside the top level.

 

League one Birmingham have just spent 15 million on a forward.. we have sold two players for 35 million each who have limited experience.

Ok £25m. The point still stands. 
 

Smart money doesn’t buy Elanga for £50m though. Smart money doesn’t buy Guehi for £65m either. With a bit of savvy and nous, you get these boys 1-3 years earlier. With the knowledge it will take a few years for them to maximise potential and a bigger likelihood it doesn’t succeed at all. 
 

We seem to have no room for error. I can only assume that’s coming from PIF. 

 

 

Edited September 1 by The College Dropout

[Jinky]

Hopefully now give an opportunity to a couple of our younguns.

[PauloGeordio]

Just now, Jinky said:

Hopefully now give an opportunity to a couple of our younguns.

Sanusi.

[TRon]

1 hour ago, KaKa said:

 

I'm not arguing that we should have signed him though.

 

My point was that whether you like us going for him now or not, the £50 million is not a crazy value, when you look around at what is going on in the market.

 

Also, if you want a player producing the goods in the league, you're going to have to pay up. If he shows up at your club and does even better your team does better, and his value increases further.

 

Getting hung up on what the previous team paid for him doesn't make sense. That ship has sailed. Oddly enough I remember wondering if we should have taken a punt at the time, but we were asleep.

 

We only paid £10 million less for Gordon, who had shown no production, or underlying numbers at Everton. To much complaining and hand wringing.

 

But now if anyone shows up for Gordon, they have to pony up, what,  £80 million?, because he performed. I doubt we'd care if Everton had bought him for £5 million from Scunthorpe the year before.

 

 

 

 

What is becoming more and more clear is that age is everything when it comes to transfer fees. Our coaching set up might think Miggy is a first team player ahead of Elliott or Minteh, but other clubs are never going to give us £15m for him, while they'll happily pay double for players outside our first team pool who they think have a higher ceiling.

[r0cafella]

24 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

 

It is crazy to both of you because you're speaking from your own personal feelings.

 

You are fast asleep, and not paying attention to what is happening in the transfer market.

Olmo and Olise went for less than 50m.

 

I don't think you understand, from an FFP POV, we can't afford to me mugged off paying high fee's for average players. 

[KaKa]

13 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Olmo and Olise went for less than 50m.

 

I don't think you understand, from an FFP POV, we can't afford to me mugged off paying high fee's for average players. 

 

I can see you didn't actually read my post.

 

The first thing I said was that this wasn't an argument that we should buy him!

 

I am talking about valuations of players in the Premier League that have produced. We have known for years that these players valuations are the highest.

 

And so people being surprised that a 21 year old already producing is in the £50 million range makes no sense.

 

Olmo has never played in the Premier League and Olise actually cost £60 million plus further add ons.

 

There's a reason Man City had to fork out £100 million for Grealish and were paying £50 million for full backs from the Premier League years ago.

 

 

Edited September 1 by KaKa

[The College Dropout]

7 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

What is becoming more and more clear is that age is everything when it comes to transfer fees. Our coaching set up might think Miggy is a first team player ahead of Elliott or Minteh, but other clubs are never going to give us £15m for him, while they'll happily pay double for players outside our first team pool who they think have a higher ceiling.

I don’t think the part about Miggy being ahead of Minteh in the coaches mind is true. It’s just a case of your second point. Nobody wanted Miggy. 
 

Forest were more savvy than us in the PSR trade. Anderson’s age and potential meant he was a good pickup at essentially £15m.  They should be able to sell him for that or more in 3 years time which would break even. We need to sell that GK to Saudi for the same fee asap.  

[KingArthur]

40 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

 

It is crazy to both of you because you're speaking from your own personal feelings.

 

You are fast asleep, and not paying attention to what is happening in the transfer market.

No, you havent been watching Elanga’s stats, and comparing his price to Gordon is ridiculous. 
 

50 million buys you a lot better player than Anthony Elanga. 

[KaKa]

Just now, KingArthur said:

No, you havent been watching Elanga’s stats, and comparing his price to Gordon is ridiculous. 
 

50 million buys you a lot better player than Anthony Elanga. 

 

You are not paying attention or reading the posts properly, and so you are completely missing the point.

 

It is a complete waste of time even engaging with you.

[TRon]

39 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I don’t think the part about Miggy being ahead of Minteh in the coaches mind is true. It’s just a case of your second point. Nobody wanted Miggy. 
 

Forest were more savvy than us in the PSR trade. Anderson’s age and potential meant he was a good pickup at essentially £15m.  They should be able to sell him for that or more in 3 years time which would break even. We need to sell that GK to Saudi for the same fee asap.  

 

 

Well there was a buyer for Miggy but they weren't going to pay £15m for him. I think they offered half of that which was a fair price in my mind, but I think the argument was we couldn't replace him if he went.

[The College Dropout]

4 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

Well there was a buyer for Miggy but they weren't going to pay £15m for him. I think they offered half of that which was a fair price in my mind, but I think the argument was we couldn't replace him if he went.

There wasn’t a buyer in June. If there was - it wasn’t enough to move the needle enough for FFP.  

[Stottie]

My take on this Elanga story is that it just confirms what a good deal we got on Harvey Barnes.