Alfie Harrison

[Checko]

   

I agree with Conjo, I can barely name a youngster on the fringes who Eddie has given chances to, even in the midst of a ridiculous injury crisis.

 

He gave Miley his debut last year in a dead rubber game, though obviously he's very talented & had been training with the first team for a while. Circumstances (and Miley's own performances) have got him a run in the team this year.

 

Anderson was 20 last year, so not super young, and basically played the fresh legs role. Lots of short sub appearances, not actually many minutes in total.

 

Apart from that... I wouldn't say Hall's been given plenty of chances at LB, he's had like, 3. In the worst injury crisis I can remember & where the players we do have fit keep dropping from overwork Hall can't even get on the pitch for a few minutes.

 

Tino looks quality and he can't get a start over BDB and has only really played during the main injury crisis at LB.

 

It's hard to be a young player and have to perform at Premier League level right off the bat. It's such a tough league, so I can see why he's reluctant to play youngsters. He likes reliable players he can trust and young players tend to make a lot more mistakes.

 

Re: your examples:

 

Ake - Chelsea youth player, bought for £20 million at about age of 20/21

Solanke - Chelsea & Liverpool youth player bought for £19 million at about age of 22- played in over 40 league games for Eddie and scored in two of them. Developed in the championship after Eddie left

Ramsdale - GK coach will have trained him

Trippier - Man City youth player - played under Eddie for 1 year in the Championship at age 21 and he'd already played well for a year in the championship before.

 

These weren't youth players he developed. Dont get me wrong, I think Eddie's a great coach and I would trust him to develop a talented young player, and I think he will develop some good players, but I just don't think it's true to say that he's particularly big on trusting youth.

 

 

Edited February 1 by Checko
spelling

[KaKa]

Managers are not going to drop their first team players for relatively inexperienced younger players if they come in and do well while first teamers are out. Typically once the first teamer is fit they come back in.

 

They are also not going to drop a first teamer who is a bit off form for a relatively inexperienced youngster either, but will allow the first teamer to play through it.

 

 

 

[The Prophet]

Maybe our youngsters are just a bit shit?

[Toon1892]

45 minutes ago, Checko said:

   

I agree with Conjo, I can barely name a youngster on the fringes who Eddie has given chances to, even in the midst of a ridiculous injury crisis.

 

He gave Miley his debut last year in a dead rubber game, though obviously he's very talented & had been training with the first team for a while. Circumstances (and Miley's own performances) have got him a run in the team this year.

 

Anderson was 20 last year, so not super young, and basically played the fresh legs role. Lots of short sub appearances, not actually many minutes in total.

 

Apart from that... I wouldn't say Hall's been given plenty of chances at LB, he's had like, 3. In the worst injury crisis I can remember & where the players we do have fit keep dropping from overwork Hall can't even get on the pitch for a few minutes.

 

Tino looks quality and he can't get a start over BDB and has only really played during the main injury crisis at LB.

 

It's hard to be a young player and have to perform at Premier League level right off the bat. It's such a tough league, so I can see why he's reluctant to play youngsters. He likes reliable players he can trust and young players tend to make a lot more mistakes.

 

Re: your examples:

 

Ake - Chelsea youth player, bought for £20 million at about age of 20/21

Solanke - Chelsea & Liverpool youth player bought for £19 million at about age of 22- played in over 40 league games for Eddie and scored in two of them. Developed in the championship after Eddie left

Ramsdale - GK coach will have trained him

Trippier - Man City youth player - played under Eddie for 1 year in the Championship at age 21 and he'd already played well for a year in the championship before.

 

These weren't youth players he developed. Dont get me wrong, I think Eddie's a great coach and I would trust him to develop a talented young player, and I think he will develop some good players, but I just don't think it's true to say that he's particularly big on trusting youth.

 

 

 

I don’t understand why you think Miley and Anderson don’t count because there are injuries. That’s how most youth players get a chance. E.g. Bradley at Liverpool. You can’t just not include them because there’s injuries.

 

At the start of the season Howe could have easily sent Miley out on loan. He could have kept Hayden at a back up cm. Instead he kept Miley knowing that he was going to be used and he has been used. Stop trying to create a narrative by ‘if’s’. Howe is playing Miley and was playing Anderson until injury.

 

I find your last post very contradicting. You’re saying giving youth a chance doesn’t count if you buy the youth player yet arguing Howe isn’t giving youth a chance by not playing Tino and Hall. We’ve spent or will be spending £30M on them. 
 

I admit I would have liked to see more of Tino but at the same time understand why we haven’t.

 

Hall hasn’t looked great in the games he’s played. I wouldn’t be surprised if we are underplaying as to not activate the £30m clause to buy him if Ashworth and Howe have decided he isn’t quite good enough or has attitude problems or even can’t afford him due to ffp.

 

Other than Tino, I don’t get what more Howe could have done with youth since he took over. 
 

Genuine question but would you have liked to see more youngsters from the academy play instead of any of the main starting 11 last season when we were trying to get top 4?

[KaKa]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Maybe our youngsters are just a bit shit?

 

I think those that are good enough have been brought into the first team fold and have trained as part of that unit.

 

When there have been injuries they have then been given chances to play.

 

Given the inexperience of the youngsters we have, that qualifies as giving them opportunities.

 

It has been more possible this season due to being in Europe, with more games and more injuries.

 

Lewis Hall does stand out as having not quite featured as much as we would have thought, and it seems this is due to him not being deemed ready to, which is the manager's call. It seems he isn't quite getting something right tactically and needs more time to adjust, which can happen.

 

Easy to say they should just be thrown out there, but if it ends up a disaster that opinion would quickly change.

[KaKa]

9 minutes ago, Toon1892 said:

 

Genuine question but would you have liked to see more youngsters from the academy play instead of any of the main starting 11 last season when we were trying to get top 4?

 

Exactly. Especially as the first team had a lot of time to recover between games as the schedule was far lighter. It just wasn't as feasible.

 

It's clear that behind the scenes though, they were very much involved with the first team, hence their preparedness to step in this season and look so comfortable.

[The Prophet]

It was actually weird seeing Hall look so happy in today's content after Howe set out to make his life a living hell.

[Hanshithispantz]

Miley was brought into the first team well before his debut because they could see he was a different level, I'm pretty sure the same would happen with any other youngster. He's not going to play National League level talent (which most of the kids on our bench will be at the minute, let's be honest) in place of Premier League footballers.

 

 

Edited February 1 by Hanshithispantz

[Conjo]

1 hour ago, KaKa said:

Most Managers are not going to drop their first team players for relatively inexperienced younger players if they come in and do well while first teamers are out. Typically once the first teamer is fit they come back in.

 

They are also not going to drop a first teamer who is a bit off form for a relatively inexperienced youngster either, but will allow the first teamer to play through it.

 

 

Small correction above, but that's exactly my point. Nothing wrong saying Howe is very limited in giving young talent chances. It's just a fact. I understand why, and I don't mind despite personally wishing he was a bit more relaxed at giving them some minutes at end of games, games where we have a big lead or maybe a bit more against lower league opposition in early stages of the cups (granted - not really possible for us this exact season with our luck of the draws ).

 

1 hour ago, Toon1892 said:

At the start of the season Howe could have easily sent Miley out on loan. He could have kept Hayden at a back up cm. Instead he kept Miley knowing that he was going to be used and he has been used. Stop trying to create a narrative by ‘if’s’. Howe is playing Miley and was playing Anderson until injury.

 

Howe's direct quote from this summer indicates the exact opposite, that he was not planning on using him:

Quote

The plan has been consistent in my mind. He will stay with us this season. There’s no thought of sending him on loan. For me he’s too young to be exposed to that at the moment. I think he needs to stay with his family and to train with us and to learn and develop around the players we have.

 

 

[Nobody]

Where does Longstaff rank on the Youngsters list? Because obviously he wasn't a youngster when Howe came here, but he had certainly lost his way and Howe made him into a Champions League midfielder 

[Fezzle]

10 hours ago, Conjo said:

 

To claim Howe gives youth chances is absolutely bonkers  As great as he is, lets not pretend he is great at everything. If he could play the same 11 every single game I think he would have

 

Anderson came back in best shape of the whole squad before pre-season, played excellent in pre-season then struggled to get playing time over a poor, injured Joelinton.

Miley got his debut against Chelsea last season because of injuries, same as this season.

 

I don't think Howe would have given Miley more than scraps this season (5 minutes at the end of early round cup games f.ex) if everyone else was fit. Doubt he'd be on the bench even. Not that's it's critical for him to get a lot of first team playing time right now at 17, but in a year, year and a half if he can't get on the bench when players are back from injury he'd start slowing down his progress unless loaned out.

 

Our second best fullback was back to bench duty as soon as Burn was fit enough to get out of bed on his own again.

Hall hasn't played 3 games worth of minutes this season despite playing for Chelsea under two different managers last season, scoring against PSG and never looking out of place when played and being lauded as "technically brilliant".

 

 

Wtf is the this shit. I literally only said miley started games in preseason ffs. Didn't realise some knacka would unravel at the sight of a simple sentence ?

[MrRaspberryJam]

1 hour ago, Fezzle said:

Wtf is the this shit. I literally only said miley started games in preseason ffs. Didn't realise some knacka would unravel at the sight of a simple sentence ?

 

Well you backed him into a corner and he acted.

[arnonel]

I think Howe cares most about the next game and getting a result. That is and has always been his no.1 priority. He constantly repeats it in press conferences.

Read into that what you want regarding putting inferior players in that might help him in the future...

 

 

Edited February 2 by arnonel

[Groundhog63]

It's relentless really. The bollox like, isn't it ??

 

Most of the players who got us to a final and 4th are shit but it's a disgrace the same players haven't done it again. 

Howe doesn't play the kids but we've  17yr old permanently in the middle

And now, to cap it off, he doesn't give a fuck about future planning. Just concentrates on the next game and not getting sacked. 

It's a fact, he says it every interview 

 

?

[Fezzle]

43 minutes ago, MrRaspberryJam said:

 

Well you backed him into a corner and he acted.

should have realised my comment to someone else would trigger him. My bad

 

 

Edited February 2 by Fezzle

[Matt1892]

10 hours ago, Conjo said:

 

and yet he still preferred a half fit Joelinton over a player who did brilliant in pre-season and, by his own words, "came back the fittest player in the squad".

 

 

He started over Tonali for two games, in a period where we had 5 matches in 2 weeks. You know as well that Howe doesn't necessarily throw new players into the team straight away until they are familier with our system either.

 

Ake was initially a loan, and he was 21 at the time.

Solanke was 22.

Ramsdale were out on loan for 2 seasons first, didn't get his chance until 21.

Trippier was 22.

 

All of them older than both Anderson and Miley when he started playing them, and all bar Ramsdale (although he played regularly for his clubs for two seasons while on loan) had a good number of first team experience at equal or better clubs/leagues prior to signing them.

 

Not sure who is brainwashed. Is it really so bad to admit that Howe is uncomfortable giving chances to talents over seasoned players?  He's far from the only manager who does, and I can understand why, and respect that he does what he thinks is best to get results.

 

I am a sucker for giving talents playing time in the hope of seeing a new star being borne, so personally wish he did it more often. Nothing more than that to it.

How dare you have a critical opinion of Eddie Howe.

 

 

[Groundhog63]

3 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

How dare you have a critical but shit opinion of Eddie Howe.

 

 

Tidied

[Hanshithispantz]

Most or the 'critical opinions' of Howe are based on nothing though. Like hyper critisism of his tactics and subs when we had 5 fit players.

 

The Miley and Anderson situation completely kills the theory that Howe doesn't give young players a chance. He's also given Hall a chance, he just doesn't trust him yet from what he's seen.

 

The likes of Alex Murphy and Ben Parkinson are being given a first team experience they're probably nowhere near ready for due to injuries, throwing them on the pitch with your fingers crossed they'll morph into elite footballers is fantastical stuff.

[arnonel]

32 minutes ago, Groundhog63 said:

It's relentless really. The bollox like, isn't it ??

 

Most of the players who got us to a final and 4th are shit but it's a disgrace the same players haven't done it again. 

Howe doesn't play the kids but we've  17yr old permanently in the middle

And now, to cap it off, he doesn't give a fuck about future planning. Just concentrates on the next game and not getting sacked. 

It's a fact, he says it every interview 

 

?

 

My point wasnt meant as a criticism btw

Howe is relentlessly focused on winning, and he is laser focused on what is in front of him. This is a strength.

He is constantly asked about future games, or where he sees us at the end of the season and his response is always predictably, "Im just focusing on the next game"

There is also loads of evidence of him bringing on Ritchie when he could give a few minutes of exposure to a bench littered with youth.

Obviously there are exceptions, and the world isn't black and white. Wasnt suggesting that its as binary as he either cares about the future of he doesn't. 
Was more meant as a point of debate. 

 

My personal view is that he is right. 

 

[Hanshithispantz]

This kid from Man City is probably a bit different, but the reality for most of these cheap kids we're buying is that they'll be loaned out when ready and sold on for a profit.

 

That won't be Howe's fault for not throwing them on the pitch like Roy of the Rovers.

[Groundhog63]

2 minutes ago, arnonel said:

 

My point wasnt meant as a criticism btw

Howe is relentlessly focused on winning, and he is laser focused on what is in front of him. This is a strength.

He is constantly asked about future games, or where he sees us at the end of the season and his response is always predictably, "Im just focusing on the next game"

There is also loads of evidence of him bringing on Ritchie when he could give a few minutes of exposure to a bench littered with youth.

Obviously there are exceptions, and the world isn't black and white. Wasnt suggesting that its as binary as he either cares about the future of he doesn't. 
Was more meant as a point of debate. 

 

My personal view is that he is right. 

 

Don't mind me kidda, I'd have directly quoted you if I was being particular. 

He absolutely does answer any question relating to future targets with a "next game" vibe. 

There's no way, however, he and the club aren't and haven't a plan moving forward. 

Agreed. 

 

I just likehaving the odd tease at the die hard dullards. 

 

Onwards, upwards ?

 

[Dr.Spaceman]

These sell-on clauses usually have an expiry date on them, right?

[Groundhog63]

20 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

These sell-on clauses usually have an expiry date on them, right?

A sell by date, if you will ?

 

40% is some chunk mind. 

[Dr.Spaceman]

Aye. Still think this is a win/win for us, regardless of the sell-on %.

[Lotus]

2 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Most or the 'critical opinions' of Howe are based on nothing though. Like hyper critisism of his tactics and subs when we had 5 fit players.

 

The Miley and Anderson situation completely kills the theory that Howe doesn't give young players a chance. He's also given Hall a chance, he just doesn't trust him yet from what he's seen.

 

The likes of Alex Murphy and Ben Parkinson are being given a first team experience they're probably nowhere near ready for due to injuries, throwing them on the pitch with your fingers crossed they'll morph into elite footballers is fantastical stuff.

would be a good retort if it was to a point someone actually made…..