Final: England 1-2 Spain

[ohmelads]

1 minute ago, Sempiternal said:

Did Kane win a single header tonight? Genuinely felt like he lost everything in the air 

 

To be fair to him, that's not his game and he isn't asked to do that at club level.

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, Sempiternal said:

Did Kane win a single header tonight? Genuinely felt like he lost everything in the air 

He played one good ball out to Saka in the first half. I noticed it because it was an anomaly. He was absolutely pathetic 

[rgk_lfc]

4 minutes ago, Sempiternal said:

We won’t win with Rice. He’s fine but he is not a player who turns a game. 

 

I agree slightly with your point. Rice is a great player, but he lacks the passing ability and the ability to set the tempo that is critical at the highest level. He is no Kante from the defensive point of view and is no Jorginho/Pirlo from a press resistance and setting-the-tempo point of view. He is a very good player in his own right. 

 

Pirlo, at his peak, would look lost in Southgate ball. Rice was not the reason England lost today. It is all on Southgate. 

[Sempiternal]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

He played one good ball out to Saka in the first half. I noticed it because it was an anomaly. He was absolutely pathetic 

I gen couldn’t believe what I was watching. Every single long ball he lost. He was getting bullied. Then he wasn’t even making decent runs into the area. Abysmal from him 

[The Butcher]

2 minutes ago, ohmelads said:

 

To be fair to him, that's not his game and he isn't asked to do that at club level.

He's 6'2.

[Sempiternal]

Just now, rgk_lfc said:

 

I agree slightly with your point. Rice is a great player, but he lacks the passing ability and the ability to set the tempo that is critical at the highest level. He is no Kante from the defensive point of view and is no Jorginho/Pirlo from a press resistance and setting-the-tempo point of view. He is a very good player in his own right. 

 

Pirlo, at his peak, would look lost in Southgate ball. Rice was not the reason England lost today. It is all on Southgate. 

Yes pretty much how I see it. He needs it all going his way to play well. He can not grip a game and turn the tide if things are going against us. He just can not control the midfield. 

[Sempiternal]

1 minute ago, The Butcher said:

He's 6'2.

Fucking right, he’s not short. He should be able to win a header. He got bullied. It was insane to watch 

[Sempiternal]

Would you rather have big Joe or Rice when the chips are down? I’d take Joe every single day personally 

[ponsaelius]

9 minutes ago, Wullie said:

I think Spain were made to look better than they are by every other big team other than Germany trying the Deschamps/Southgate approach of keeping it tight and trying to nick a goal.

 

I know we're biased but it really is a joke that a player like Nico Williams can look so good in a tournament where we had a better player in the same position and he played 4 minutes.

 

Williams will get another half a dozen goals next season for Bilbao, Gordon is twice the player.

 

Some truth to the first, but not the latter. I'd swap Gordon for Williams in a heartbeat.

[Wullie]

7 minutes ago, Sempiternal said:

Yeah I like him but he’s not elite. Made him look good 

 

He looks quite easy to stop to me for a really good team. It's like, yeah I've seen Wilfried Zaha play for years, this is really nothing special at all. Fair play to him, he's had a great run of form at the perfect time, but I'm not convinced he's going to have a big club career (feel free to quote this in 5 years time when he wins his third CL).

[Sempiternal]

Just now, Wullie said:

 

He looks quite easy to stop to me for a really good team. It's like, yeah I've seen Wilfried Zaha play for years, this is really nothing special at all. Fair play to him, he's had a great run of form at the perfect time, but I'm not convinced he's going to have a big club career (feel free to quote this in 5 years time when he wins his third CL).

Nah I agree. He’s a nice player to watch for sure, but I don’t think he’s anything special. I think he’d struggle in the PL 

[TheBrownBottle]

44 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

A complete loser who's made 2 finals and a semi in a 55 year drought of not even getting there. Let me hear your thoughts of SBR, Venables etc

Robson was forced by his players at Italy '90 to change to a sweeper system after looking shite in the first couple of games.  I'm not sure that Robson did a great job with England - and that side wasn't as talented as the current generation.

 

Venables played one Euros - on home soil - and lost to a good, but not great, German side, having been very, very fortunate vs a mediocre Spain side in the QF (Spain would have scored but for poor refereeing).

 

As others have pointed out though, Robson wasn't a colossal failure at club level, so had that in the bank.

[Doctor Zaius]

The amount of talent in that England squad doesnt give us the right to win a tournament, but fuck me, if anyone thinks Southgate got the best out of them, they're on a different planet. 

 

Easy draw, made hard work of it, outclassed by the first decent team they came up against. Looked alright for 45 mins v Netherlands. Delighted to see the back of Southgate tbh. A Bellingham overhead kick from an Iceland style knockout which would have been befitting of us this tournament.

 

 

Edited July 14 by Doctor Zaius

[Sempiternal]

I’d take Rodri, Yamal, Olmo out of that Spain side. Manager was very good but that’s not a better team than ours 

[Wullie]

Kane has at least done it for England in the past and is always a goal threat even when he's not playing well. 

 

Foden remains a complete mystery in an England shirt. 

[Sempiternal]

I personally thought cucurella did not want it at all 1v1 and we didn’t exploit it at all 

[Wullie]

Just now, Sempiternal said:

I personally thought cucurella did not want it at all 1v1 and we didn’t exploit it at all 

 

I thought it was the plan in the first half to isolate him against Saka, who has form for absolutely rinsing him in the past for Arsenal. We got it quickly out to Saka a couple of times then stopped bothering.

[Sempiternal]

1 minute ago, Wullie said:

 

I thought it was the plan in the first half to isolate him against Saka, who has form for absolutely rinsing him in the past for Arsenal. We got it quickly out to Saka a couple of times then stopped bothering.

Yeah Saka had him on his heels and he was struggling, then we abandoned it for some reason. He did not want to be 1v1 against Saka at all 

[Pilko]

4 minutes ago, Wullie said:

Kane has at least done it for England in the past and is always a goal threat even when he's not playing well. 

 

Foden remains a complete mystery in an England shirt. 

 

Foden was like 2021 Mason Mount this tournament, absolutely invisible for the vast majority of proceedings and yet the notion of dropping him never crossed the mind of our esteemed manager who persists with the "safe" option despite plenty other options.

[Sempiternal]

I hate our midfield tbf. Mainoo is a very good player but I just feel we don’t have any bite at all. Him and Rice it’s feels very passive to me 

[ponsaelius]

Btw I think Southgate was genuinely a good manager for England 2018-2022. Personally never agreed with any of the criticism previously, both in terms of performances and results considering the relative personnel available each time.

 

However I think we were actually terrible throughout this tournament and think it would have been more befitting if we had gone out against Slovakia. 

[Kid Icarus]

I've said it before but Foden having previously been on the other side of that undroppable/unstartable dichotomy makes it all the more baffling. Up until now Southgate wanted nothing to do with him

[KaKa]

19 minutes ago, Wullie said:

 

He looks quite easy to stop to me for a really good team. It's like, yeah I've seen Wilfried Zaha play for years, this is really nothing special at all. Fair play to him, he's had a great run of form at the perfect time, but I'm not convinced he's going to have a big club career (feel free to quote this in 5 years time when he wins his third CL).

 

Wow. Zaha doesn't have a tenth of the awareness or game intelligence Nico Williams does. Both players are incomparable.

[Kid Icarus]

4 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

Btw I think Southgate was genuinely a good manager for England 2018-2022. Personally never agreed with any of the criticism previously, both in terms of performances and results considering the relative personnel available each time.

 

However I think we were actually terrible throughout this tournament and think it would have been more befitting if we had gone out against Slovakia. 

Thought it was going to be one of those weird poetic things where we actually ended up being the things his detractors accused him of then actually winning.

 

 

Edited July 14 by Kid Icarus

[Wullie]

And for all Kane has been rubbish, when you watch as much top level modern football as we/I do, watching Jordan Pickford whack it long to him over and over and over again, hoping for a knockdown, is almost surreal. 

 

I've said to a couple of relatives this tournament who are the type of people who only watch football at these times that basically nobody plays football like this now, it has felt sometimes like Southgate hasn't watched a Premier League game since he retired.