Marc Guehi

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

17 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

This sounds great and I agree with it principle. But how about things which are as basic as this.

 

If someone opted out of an anti racism campaign because they thought black people were inferior, I don’t think we’d just be saying “fair enough, it’s personal belief”.

Maybe the clubs and leagues should wisen up and put all of this rubbish on an advertising hoarding and stop using their employees as vessels to makes useless statements for the political issue du jour. The players are not even allowed to make political or religious statements of their own volition. How silly is it that they should have to make them at the club's behest?

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 12:59 by Segun Oluwaniyi

[Erikse]

My only stance is that I give players the  benefit of the doubt in it, meaning that I doubt they actually hate gay people. For example I don't think Guehi would actually mind having a gay teammate. Ofcourse I'm just guessing, I might be naive, and also a gay player might be uncomfortable playing in the same team as him after this. I see the issues with it, but I'm not going to just assume that he hates gay people or is a homophobe. I think it's very possible that he's not.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 12:55 by Erikse

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Anyone can have whatever beliefs they want in private. But some of them can’t be accepted in public in civilised society.  That happens all the time. Someone wouldn’t really be accepted for being racist or hating women or whatever.

 

It’s not an easy argument but that’s the way I lean. 

[Skeletor]

1 minute ago, Segun Oluwaniyi said:

Maybe the clubs and leagues should wisen up and put all of this rubbish on a advertising hoarding and stop using their employees as vessels to makes useless statements for the political issue du jour. The players are not even allowed to make political or religious statements of their own volition. How silly is it that they should have to make them at the club's behest?

 

 

 

 

Or just give the armband to someone else for the game if it's such an awful problem for that person to wear it.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

1 minute ago, Segun Oluwaniyi said:

Maybe the clubs and leagues should wisen up and put all of this rubbish on a advertising hoarding and stop using their employees as vessels to makes useless statements for the political issue du jour. The players are not even allowed to make political or religious statements of their own volition. How silly is it that they should have to make them at the club's behest?

 

 

 

There’s a lot in that post that would disagree with as premises, but I get what you’re saying. On the other hand, the PL is a global brand and these brands generally have values they feel they need to express because of their presence in society. 

[Hanshithispantz]

I still don't understand how people don't understand religious people, especially when it comes to the more full on branches like Catholicism - and especially with people from places like Africa.

 

Guehi's parents are from the Ivory Coast? Even if he's more progressive with his faith (he might not be), his parents a far more likely to be strict and believe he's committing a sin by wearing the armband.

 

These kinds of people genuinely believe in a vengeful god, in a devil and in hell. Forcing them wear a pride flag is ignorant as fuck.

 

It IS homophobic like, there's no defending the views of religious people beyond them being brainwashed imo, but forcing them to play these little games is just daft.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just now, Hanshithispantz said:

I still don't understand how people don't understand religious people, especially when it comes to the more full on branches like Catholicism - and especially with people from places like Africa.

 

Guehi's parents are from the Ivory Coast? Even if he's more progressive with his faith (he might not be), his parents a far more likely to be strict and believe he's committing a sin by wearing the armband.

 

These kinds of people genuinely believe in a vengeful god, in a devil and in hell. Forcing them wear a pride flag is ignorant as fuck.

 

It IS homophobic like, there's no defending the views of religious people beyond them being brainwashed imo, but forcing them to play these little games is just daft.

Yeah, I think we get that generally. But what would you do in the case that the PL wants to promote equality and a player doesn’t? 

[Dr.Spaceman]

I like to see the PL produce more armbands for more demographics such as minorities, disabled people, aliens etc. See if the stupid cunt writes something about Jesus on those armbands.

[Pablo123]

3 minutes ago, Skeletor said:

 

Or just give the armband to someone else for the game if it's such an awful problem for that person to wear it.

He wore the armband, though.

[Skeletor]

It exists to show inclusion of gay players in sports. Especially football where players still feel afraid to be openly gay and their sexuality becomes the subject of intrusive media stories like the many "secret gay married footballer" stories that have been in the press.

[Skeletor]

1 minute ago, Pablo123 said:

He wore the armband, though.

 

Defaced armband.

[Pablo123]

Just now, Dr.Spaceman said:

I like to see the PL produce more armbands for more demographics such as minorities, disabled people, aliens etc. See if the stupid cunt writes something about Jesus on those armbands.

Probably would depend if they mentioned aliens and disabled people being a sin in the bible, I'd imagine, and going against his beliefs

[Hanshithispantz]

3 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Yeah, I think we get that generally. But what would you do in the case that the PL wants to promote equality and a player doesn’t? 

It's easy to keep it to things where the player doesn't have to actively participate.

 

Rainbow laces is a decent way for players to show support without shining a torch on those who don't.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 13:03 by Hanshithispantz

[Menace]

Definition of first world problems 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just now, Hanshithispantz said:

It's easy to keeo it to things where the player doesn't have to actively participate.

 

Rainbow laces is a decent way for players to show support without shining a torch on those who don't.

True, but it’s not exactly the same thing. The PL want to say ‘we as an organisation support LGBT people’. Instead of having a visible anti racism campaign they could write a couple of blog posts, but it’s a bigger priority than that. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

1 minute ago, Menace said:

Definition of first world problems 

Very. This is why we’re lucky to live in the first world. 

[nufcjmc]

11 minutes ago, Skeletor said:

 

Its not political. We are real people with real lives who just want to be left alone by people who think religious beliefs gives them the right to discriminate or disinclude us from society.

Obviously  I can't put myself in your shoes or know how you feel or have been treated by others. I also feel campaigns like these are good for spreading the word and acceptance and tolerance.

 

However to some the flag is just a rainbow and doesn't mean anything else and how they feel is personal to them. This is the point I kinda regret making as it just spill into the debate I feared where not doing it at all means you hate something or writing on a rainbow is a slight or defacing something special to others. 

 

The player may not have any strong views either way or misguided to think the campaign to respect a single group of people can also include religion too. 

 

Not going to know how he feels unless you know him or he releases a statement so hard to say if he is intentionally taking any stance good or bad by doing what he did. 

[Skeletor]

1 minute ago, nufcjmc said:

Obviously  I can't put myself in your shoes or know how you feel or have been treated by others. I also feel campaigns like these are good for spreading the word and acceptance and tolerance.

 

However to some the flag is just a rainbow and doesn't mean anything else and how they feel is personal to them. This is the point I kinda regret making as it just spill into the debate I feared where not doing it at all means you hate something or writing on a rainbow is a slight or defacing something special to others. 

 

The player may not have any strong views either way or misguided to think the campaign to respect a single group of people can also include religion too. 

 

Not going to know how he feels unless you know him or he releases a statement so hard to say if he is intentionally taking any stance good or bad by doing what he did. 

 

I don't care how he feels or if its misguided or not. I have had to put up with this sort of bullshit my whole life and I'm fed up with it.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 13:09 by Skeletor

[Conjo]

5 minutes ago, Segun Oluwaniyi said:

I do not understand this statement; many groups of people exist. One can acknowledge they exist without wearing the group's paraphernalia at their place of employment. Refusal to do so does not make them hateful or evil, no matter how much certain people will protest. Frankly, trying to frame the issue as ”not political" is just a rhetorical attempt to limit discussion and push back. The statement is inherently political, to the point that there are actual policy debates around it to this day.

 

Going back to the point  @AyeDubbleYoo raised a few posts above. How would you feel if our captain refused to wear an anti-racism armband because he though black people were inferior? Genuine question btw. I don't think people choose their sexual orientation or identity same way people don't get to choose the color of their skin.

[DiddyLevine]

22 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I respect their right to different beliefs but I can’t accept that extends to accepting that people are fundamentally inferior because of things like sexuality. Do we just say to racists that their believes are equally valid? 

Being christian and seeing homosexuality as sinful is not the same as being racist

[AyeDubbleYoo]

2 minutes ago, DiddyLevine said:

Being christian and seeing homosexuality as sinful is not the same as being racist

In what way? Because there is scripture? 
 

I’m not sure how much value there is in this argument, the result is that you’re saying one group of people is inferior to another. 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 13:18 by AyeDubbleYoo

[KennyUtd]

12 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Yeah, I think we get that generally. But what would you do in the case that the PL wants to promote equality and a player doesn’t? 

The Premier League can promote equality all they like. Just don't force it onto people with different views. He's clearly a decent lad who lives an honest life. Not falling out of pubs or shagging around. At least not that we've heard. But he's a football player.  Not an educator. If he lives his life and is an example to others, makes his family proud, that's all he's responsible for. I mean, I would have just refused to wear it at all if he feels so strongly like. On the other hand, I personally, would have just worn it. 

[Skeletor]

1 minute ago, DiddyLevine said:

Being christian and seeing homosexuality as sinful is not the same as being racist

 

 

[nufcjmc]

2 hours ago, Skeletor said:

 

I don't care how he feels or if its misguided or not. I have had to put up with this sort of bullshit my whole life and I'm fed up with it.

 

 

 

Like I say I can't understand your view point as I have no stake in it. Certainly you have my respect for speaking out when you feel so strongly.

 

Because to me it's just a rainbow I don't see his actions as anything other than niave at best and he hasn't said or written anything aggressive to the point of promoting hate or hate speech about any sort of group. Obviously I am aware that branches of religion don't align with people's sexual preference and outside of the country it can have deadly consequences so not going to pretend there is  no part whatsoever where it maybe construde that way. 

 

Hence why I would prefer its supported by the clubs and in the stadiums but kept off the field. 

 

For example my kids are severely disabled my son can't stand loud noises and regularly self harms due to sensory overload. The club have setup a quiet space in the stadium where you can be part of the match day experience but not the noise of the crowd. Not sure how well advertised it is but it's an inclusive thing I appreciate that doesn't need to be heavily promoted. 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 15:11 by nufcjmc

[Pablo123]

1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

In what way? Because there is scripture? 
 

Im not sure how much value there is in this argument, the result is that you’re saying one group of people is inferior to another. 

 

 

 

Not at all. You can dislike the sin, but taught to love the sinner. We're all equal