Southampton 1-3 Newcastle United - 25/1/25

[joeyt]

Also can't remember a single game where he or the team have played well when we've moved him up front

[Heron]

1 hour ago, Smal said:

he was also a couple of yards behind our defensive line for their goal that was given offside eventually. He loses concentration quite a bit tbh, needs to improve.

Tino is being relied upon to be our pace to cover the central back two and is not only central but the last man to ensure we have the best chance of catching the opposition when they break in such instances. So I'm less concerned with him being a yard behind than Schars decision to try and glance a header back to the keeper there when he isn't the last man and has no awareness of what's around him. At 3-1 it should have been firm header forward and job done.

[Ikon]

Would have been much better off giving Gordon a few minutes off. He plays a bit too much. No need to throw him up front for even more minutes. 

[Lenny]

1 minute ago, joeyt said:

Also can't remember a single game where he or the team have played well when we've moved him up front

He's moved up front, more often than not when we're changing our tactics to not attack, conserve energy and see out the game. Given that every time we've done it lately we've done exactly that, I can't say that I agree with you. 

[LFEE]

12 minutes ago, joeyt said:

Nice assist but I thought Gordon was pretty poor yesterday again

Yep wasn’t at it both sides of the game. Left Hall exposed for the goal build up causing Burn to come out of position I felt at the time. Thought similar last week. His defensive work has dropped off lately.

[STM]

Something that's been missed... I looks to me like Howe is slowly giving Willock minutes up front.

 

I suspect if Isak is injured we might see Willock as his stand in.

[Heron]

39 minutes ago, madras said:

I've just watched it back 3 times and you are saying he have gambled on Schar leaving it ? You see Tino step up as much thinking Schar will play it as playing offside.

 

Don't get the Tino criticism here, it's all Schar in my eyes.

For their offside goal? I absolutely agree.

[Heron]

36 minutes ago, aussiemag said:

Thoughts on the actual goal? The right back had far too much time to deliver his cross. Hall and Burn were covering the more advanced player, think it was Walker-Peters. No one was manning up Bree who crossed it. Gordon should have been on Bree. But he was jogging back from the halfway line. 

 

 

 

Agreed.

[Heron]

22 minutes ago, Checko said:

We had a 2v2 tbf but when Burn went to ground and didn't win it Hall had to fully commit to him. At the end of the day it's very difficult to completely stop people putting crosses into the box from deep and it was a good cross to a totally unmarked player in the middle of the 6 yard box. The lack of marking was the main issue to me.

 

I think Gordon staying higher up is tactical personally, we do that quite a lot with him.

Aye it's a risk element we seem to accept. Either that or Gordon simply doesn't do his defensive job.

[madras]

3 minutes ago, Ikon said:

Ultra critical  

 

He was flat footed doing nothing. He should have tried to be more on his toes  at least trying to go for the ball. That’s the best and the least he can do in a difficult situation with 2 others around him. If he had tried to attack the ball or ran towards where it was going then it would have at least made it more difficult for them if he was at least in that space trying to challenge physically. He wasn’t the only one at fault for their goal obviously not. But doing absolutely NOTHING is never a good idea. The awareness wasn’t there and he just froze basically. 
 

 

 

 

 

He was on his toes for the other two attackers he was left to mark. Making the adjustment leaves you flat footed. You kind of hedge your bets in that position and he gambled on the two attackers with him as opposed to the one who strode through unmarked. I'll add in he ends up with Onuachu on his back 

[madras]

Rewatch the goal and tell me what on earth Joelinton is doing.

 

 

Edited January 26 by madras

[Heron]

15 minutes ago, Lenny said:

What do you think was poor about his game? I thought he had a good overall game, and certainly nothing to be worthy of labelling poor.

 

Just to shamelessly repost an earlier one, as I feel it's pertinent to your view:

 

I feel like Gordon is a touch underappreciated at times and seems often called out for average performances when I've found myself seeing a lot of positive stuff from him.

 

I think his all round quality has improved quite a bit since last season insofar that he'll often make progressive passes and show good composure in his decision making. He also seems to always try to make something happen, particularly when in a deep position. He has a knack of doing a really simple stepover and reverse that more often than not takes him round and clear of his marker and opens the opposition up for us to break on.

I think he hasn't been as good as last season to be honest and often gets no stick for his mistakes when comparing with someone like Murphy who is criticised even when he plays well. He's lacked assertion and quality in elements of his game, but on his game he's somewhat unplayable.

[joeyt]

3 minutes ago, Lenny said:

He's moved up front, more often than not when we're changing our tactics to not attack, conserve energy and see out the game. Given that every time we've done it lately we've done exactly that, I can't say that I agree with you. 

 

The ball doesn't stick to Gordon up front though and it just comes straight back at us

[Ikon]

1 minute ago, madras said:

He was on his toes for the other two attackers he was left to mark. Making the adjustment leaves you flat footed. You kind of hedge your bets in that position and he gambled on the two attackers with him as opposed to the one who strode through unmarked. I'll add in he ends up with Onuachu on his back 

Therefore I think he should have shown more awareness of what was coming in and where the ball was going and prioritised the biggest danger instead of just standing still. 

[LFEE]

Just now, joeyt said:

 

The ball doesn't stick to Gordon up front though and it just comes straight back at us

On that topic it’s something Isak needs to be better at also. He’ll never be the strongest I’ve accepted that but he could be much cuter at vital times to relieve some pressure.

[Lenny]

Just now, Heron said:

I think he hasn't been as good as last season to be honest and often gets no stick for his mistakes when comparing with someone like Murphy who is criticised even when he plays well. He's lacked assertion and quality in elements of his game, but on his game he's somewhat unplayable.

I think his end product hasn't been as good, but his all round play I feel has improved. 

 

He crafts space for himself so frequently to move into vacant space and start attacks. He often makes a lot of angled and clever passes, often on the offensive edge of the middle third that I feel is under appreciated. 

 

I'm just personally not seeing performances from him that fit the description of poor. Worse than last season is a reasonable assessment but he was superb last season.

[madras]

Just now, Ikon said:

Therefore I think he should have shown more awareness of what was coming in and where the ball was going and prioritised the biggest danger instead of just standing still. 

He's actively trying to cover 2 or 3 attackers. Shown more awareness? He's attempting to cover all bases If it's a deeper cross to the 2 he's covering then he can make a stronger challenge  but for some reason you don't question why he's left alone with 3, Joelinton seems to follow Bednarak a bit then stops at the edge if the box, Tonali never attempts to get goal side or close to a man. It was a massive collective failing of which I'd say Tino was least at fault.

[Heron]

1 minute ago, Lenny said:

I think his end product hasn't been as good, but his all round play I feel has improved. 

 

He crafts space for himself so frequently to move into vacant space and start attacks. He often makes a lot of angled and clever passes, often on the offensive edge of the middle third that I feel is under appreciated. 

 

I'm just personally not seeing performances from him that fit the description of poor. Worse than last season is a reasonable assessment but he was superb last season.

I think poor can be subjective tbh mate. Poor could mean poor based on how good we know he can be or it could be poor versus other players either on the day or overall.

 

Bizarrely, (folk such as your good self may feel) I think Gordon has around the same goal contributions as Murphy this season and I would consider him (to use the term) "poor" because he is capable of more as shown last season. Murphy I'd consider to be almost outstanding based on this is probably his strongest ever patch. Just as an example.

[Lenny]

Just now, Heron said:

I think poor can be subjective tbh mate. Poor could mean poor based on how good we know he can be or it could be poor versus other players either on the day or overall.

 

Bizarrely, (folk such as your good self may feel) I think Gordon has around the same goal contributions as Murphy this season and I would consider him (to use the term) "poor" because he is capable of more as shown last season. Murphy I'd consider to be almost outstanding based on this is probably his strongest ever patch. Just as an example.

Subjectively poor is fair and I would agree with your example. I think I would just challenge people's use of the word poor as an outright assessment, by highlighting some of the improvements I think he's shown, even on last year's brilliant season. 

[Ikon]

1 minute ago, madras said:

He's actively trying to cover 2 or 3 attackers. Shown more awareness? He's attempting to cover all bases If it's a deeper cross to the 2 he's covering then he can make a stronger challenge  but for some reason you don't question why he's left alone with 3, Joelinton seems to follow Bednarak a bit then stops at the edge if the box, Tonali never attempts to get goal side or close to a man. It was a massive collective failing of which I'd say Tino was least at fault.

I’ve already said that it wasn’t just Tino at fault for their goal. But standing there ending up doing nothing isn’t exactly great defending. He was standing next to two other opposition players, that’s what he did. You keep talking about IF the ball was deeper…. Well it wasn’t, and that’s what awareness and anticipation is all about when it comes to defending and reading the game. 
 

As I’ve already said, it’s not the end of the world and neither is everything Tino’s fault, I repeat everything wasn’t his fault. I’m also not expecting him to beat Bednarek in the air. But IF he had more awareness and better anticipation he could have done at least something. 
 

Im not sure if he’s scared of aerial challenges or something. He often allows the ball to bounce and decides to wait in some situations instead of attacking it. 

[Heron]

2 minutes ago, Lenny said:

Subjectively poor is fair and I would agree with your example. I think I would just challenge people's use of the word poor as an outright assessment, by highlighting some of the improvements I think he's shown, even on last year's brilliant season. 

Fair dues.

[joeyt]

He had a really bad start to the season,  got back to his usual self on our recent run of form where he was really good. 

 

I just think the last two games against two poor right backs he's played poorly and kept giving the ball away

[madras]

2 minutes ago, Ikon said:

I’ve already said that it wasn’t just Tino at fault for their goal. But standing there ending up doing nothing isn’t exactly great defending. He was standing next to two other opposition players, that’s what he did. You keep talking about IF the ball was deeper…. Well it wasn’t, and that’s what awareness and anticipation is all about when it comes to defending and reading the game. 
 

As I’ve already said, it’s not the end of the world and neither is everything Tino’s fault, I repeat everything wasn’t his fault. I’m also not expecting him to beat Bednarek in the air. But IF he had more awareness and better anticipation he could have done at least something. 
 

Im not sure if he’s scared of aerial challenges or something. He often allows the ball to bounce and decides to wait in some situations instead of attacking it. 

I just think that in situations like that it's difficult and he probably done the right thing in staying with Onuachu, playing percentages staying with the tall striker. 

 

The more I've watched it the more I get annoyed with Joelinton.

[TheBrownBottle]

28 minutes ago, Heron said:

I think he hasn't been as good as last season to be honest and often gets no stick for his mistakes when comparing with someone like Murphy who is criticised even when he plays well. He's lacked assertion and quality in elements of his game, but on his game he's somewhat unplayable.

Like Liam Neeson, Joelinton has a particular set of skills - skills which make him unplayable in specific set ups against specific opponents; but he can be badly exposed when the team isn’t set up to cover his weaknesses or against opposition which knows how to exploit those weaknesses.  He also needs to be on his game as a poor Joelinton performance is significantly worse than a poor Bruno or Tonali performance (and as harsh as it is given the quality of those two, they are his peers in midfield). 

 

 

[Turnbull2000]

Match cam up