Yoane Wissa

[Kid Icarus]

4 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

They aren’t, like.  They’re just another PL club which happens to be vastly more successful - on what terms are they our ‘rivals’?

We're in the same league, they're number one and our stated aim is to be number one.

 

If you think how it is now is how is how it will be even in 5 years time, fair enough, but I couldn't disagree more, we're a club that has stated ambitions to be number 1, they're a club that has only just recently found a limited amount of success in the league.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2025 by Kid Icarus

[Displayname]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

We're in the same league, they're number one and our stated aim is to be number one.

 

If you think how it is now is how is how it will be even in 5 years time, fair enough, but I couldn't disagree more, we're a club that has stated ambitions to be number 1.

It's a long term goal, has to be with the current rules.

Isak might be retired by the time we get there.

[TRon]

5 minutes ago, STM said:

 

We play in the same league as them.

We played in a cup final against them.

We weren't far away from finishing one place below them.

 

By giving them Isak. The gap widens. With Sesko the gap still widens, just slightly less.

 

 

This. Liverpool might be a fair distance ahead of us at the moment, but if they didn't see us as rivals, they wouldn't have conspired with the PL to bring in rules to stop us spending on our squad. 

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, Displayname said:

It's a long term goal, has to be with the current rules.

Isak might be retired by the time we get there.

It was a 5 to 10 year goal coming up to 4 years ago.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2025 by Kid Icarus

[Yorkie]

6 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

We're in the same league, they're number one and our stated aim is to be number one.

 

If you think how it is now is how is how it will be even in 5 years time, fair enough, but I couldn't disagree more, we're a club that has stated ambitions to be number 1, they're a club that has only just recently found a limited amount of success in the league.

 

 

 

 

The only way we catch them is by dramatically improving our PSR position. The only way we dramatically improve our PSR position is through sales. We're in between a rock and a hard place. 

 

As for the post of mine you quoted. If I've got PSR specs then you've got the blinkers on.

 

Despite the not-for-sale position, the club has a price for Isak that works for us. If they can get it now they won't risk banking on getting it later. PSR encourages that mindset because it's so important to maximise trading out. 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

We're in the same league, they're number one and our stated aim is to be number one.

 

If you think how it is now is how is how it will be even in 5 years time, fair enough, but I couldn't disagree more, we're a club that has stated ambitions to be number 1, they're a club that has only just recently found a limited amount of success in the league.

 

 

 

Perhaps at some point if we’re both regularly competing for trophies against each other then we become direct rivals, sure.  But there’s no rivalry there at present.  I think that if that happens (and that’s a big ‘if’) then it’s likely more than 5 years away. 

 

Not sure that the most successful side in football league history in England can be said to have only recently found limited success mind - nor would I say that two league titles in half a decade is limited

[STM]

Im with @Kid Icarusin that losing Isak is an absolute clusterfuck and theres no real way of tarting it up.

 

If you lose the best striker in the world, it can only set you back, certainly in the short term.

 

Where i disagree is that there was much that could have been done. A new contract, perhaps but even then it doesn't justify his behaviour now and a new deal would have seen him leave in 12 months anyway. 

 

If we come out of it with Sesko and Wissa, that's the best we can do IMO.

 

There's a massive part of me that wouldn't mind seeing Sesko fall through and us be forced to keep Isak.

[Kid Icarus]

Just now, Yorkie said:

 

The only way we catch them is by dramatically improving our PSR position. The only way we dramatically improve our PSR position is through sales. We're in between a rock and a hard place. 

 

As for the post of mine you quoted. If I've got PSR specs then you've got the blinkers on.

 

Despite the not-for-sale position, the club has a price for Isak that works for us. If they can get it now they won't risk banking on getting it later. PSR encourages that mindset because it's so important to maximise trading out. 

There is absolutely nothing about our PSR situation that dictates we need to improve it by selling our best players to domestic rivals. Nothing whatsoever.

[DevonGeordie]

No expert on PSR by any stretch but surely this can be made to work in our favour, buy in for £35 million; couple of good seasons and then shifted on to a newly promoted club for £25ish million?

 

 

[TheBrownBottle]

8 minutes ago, STM said:

 

We play in the same league as them.

We played in a cup final against them.

We weren't far away from finishing one place below them.

 

By giving them Isak. The gap widens. With Sesko the gap still widens, just slightly less.

Playing a League Cup final against them won’t mean owt to them tbf - they’ve won it ten times, and I doubt any of those wins (nor their five losses in the final) register highly on their list of important moments in their history - and playing in the same league doesn’t make clubs rivals.  I don’t consider Bournemouth or Wolves to be our rivals. 

[Kid Icarus]

10 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Perhaps at some point if we’re both regularly competing for trophies against each other then we become direct rivals, sure.  But there’s no rivalry there at present.  I think that if that happens (and that’s a big ‘if’) then it’s likely more than 5 years away. 

 

Not sure that the most successful side in football league history in England can be said to have only recently found limited success mind - nor would I say that two league titles in half a decade is limited

Do you think this happens by selling them our best players? 

 

2nd paragraph, they've won 2 leagues in the last few years with the one before that 35 odd years ago, their success in that regard is obviously recent.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2025 by Kid Icarus

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Perhaps at some point if we’re both regularly competing for trophies against each other then we become direct rivals, sure.  But there’s no rivalry there at present.  I think that if that happens (and that’s a big ‘if’) then it’s likely more than 5 years away. 

 

Not sure that the most successful side in football league history in England can be said to have only recently found limited success mind - nor would I say that two league titles in half a decade is limited

In the context of there being 30 years between these two and their previous one perhaps? Don’t get me wrong we'd have killed to have their trophy haul during that period. But let’s not pretend that they were not also-rans for much of those three decades. They were effectively what Arteta's Arsenal currently are for most of Klopp rein too

[STM]

4 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Playing a League Cup final against them won’t mean owt to them tbf - they’ve won it ten times, and I doubt any of those wins (nor their five losses in the final) register highly on their list of important moments in their history - and playing in the same league doesn’t make clubs rivals.  I don’t consider Bournemouth or Wolves to be our rivals. 

 

If you compete against someone, you are rivals. 

[TRon]

9 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

The only way we catch them is by dramatically improving our PSR position. The only way we dramatically improve our PSR position is through sales. We're in between a rock and a hard place. 

 

As for the post of mine you quoted. If I've got PSR specs then you've got the blinkers on.

 

Despite the not-for-sale position, the club has a price for Isak that works for us. If they can get it now they won't risk banking on getting it later. PSR encourages that mindset because it's so important to maximise trading out. 

 

 

That's the unfortunate truth of it. I've yet to see any meaningful strategy where we can break out of the shackles in the short term. My only hope is that City winning their case opens the door to some APT sponsorships which are currently illegal. Otherwise it's a long haul of selling players, building a new stadium and having the best manager every step of the way. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

Do you think this happens by selling them our best players? 

 

2nd paragraph, they've won 2 leagues in 35 odd years, their success in that regard is obviously recent.

Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Man City and Spurs have all sold players between them in recent times - some more incendiary than others, but they’ve all done it.  I can remember Barcelona selling their best player to Real Madrid (Figo). 
 

Liverpool have acted like complete cunts here, so I totally understand not wanting to sell to them on that basis (and they seem to have bid well below Isak’s value).  But if Liverpool bid £150m+ I’d have zero fucks to give at this point - I’m happy to trust Howe to use that headroom wisely (though we’d have to remember how to actually sign players!).  I always assumed that - due to PSR - most of the players signed in the last three years would be flipped for profit and weren’t here for the long haul. 

[J7]

4 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Playing a League Cup final against them won’t mean owt to them tbf - they’ve won it ten times, and I doubt any of those wins (nor their five losses in the final) register highly on their list of important moments in their history - and playing in the same league doesn’t make clubs rivals.  I don’t consider Bournemouth or Wolves to be our rivals. 

This probably just comes down to the definition of rivals. Regardless, I think they’d rather play us with Isak in their team than in ours, especially in a cup final. I think that’s the point. Weakening our chances against a team we compete against. 

[STM]

noun

a person or thing competing with another for the same objective or for superiority in the same field of activity.

 

They are rival, whether they are seen as a close rival is a different thing but given we beat them in a cup final, id suggest a certain closeness.

[TheBrownBottle]

7 minutes ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said:

In the context of there being 30 years between these two and their previous one perhaps? Don’t get me wrong we'd have killed to have their trophy haul during that period. But let’s not pretend that they were not also-rans for much of those three decades. They were effectively what Arteta's Arsenal currently are for most of Klopp rein too

True, though they won nine major trophies - including twice being crowned champions of Europe - during that period.  European Cups knock league titles into a cocked hat for me. 
 

 

3 minutes ago, STM said:

 

If you compete against someone, you are rivals. 

Playing a team in a cup final doesn’t feel like competing with them other than on a one-off basis.  

[Moose]

Liverpool are our rivals as they occupy a place in the league we want for ourselves. 

Make no mistake, Liverpool (and by extention the rest of the cartel) see us as an emerging threat and will stop at nothing to make our climb to the top as arduous as possible. Which is why I don't want to cede an inch to these cunts. They'll only delay the inevitable though.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2025 by liammc414

[nufcjmc]

Its all very frustrating we have our hands tied and the only way to catch up is to weaken ourselves and strengthen a team we want to bridge the gap on. I agree wheeling dealing is key just annoying the sale cant be outside of the prem or when he's coming out of his prime and we are selling at a good time.

 

I love a simpson reference and its the one that jumps to mind albeit not a perfect fit.

 

 

 

 

[Andy84]

Liverpool aren’t a rival 

 

Whoever thinks that’s just go and support Brighton or Palace and be done with it 

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, Andy84 said:

Liverpool aren’t a rival 

 

Whoever thinks that’s just go and support Brighton or Palace and be done with it 

Fair enough 

 

I hope we face our rivals Bayern Munich and Real Madrid in the CL group stages, we want to be no.1 and they’re in our road

[Gawalls]

3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

True, though they won nine major trophies - including twice being crowned champions of Europe - during that period.  European Cups knock league titles into a cocked hat for me. 
 

 

Playing a team in a cup final doesn’t feel like competing with them other than on a one-off basis.  

You mean Crystal Palace aren’t direct rivals with Man City 😁 - I agree with you for what it’s worth and I never expected any of our players to retire here and if we could sell for a profit and learn to do it well and use that to grow us but not become known for just that like Brighton are ie get the balance right then great. I had no problems with selling Minteh for example ands thought the meltdown of some was insane but we’ve been brought up in a time of the shearer where players retired for their boyhood club, not like that any more and never will be.

[Emotic]

Especially when we beat them in a cup final just the past season and ended up three places above them a couple seasons back. Defeatism will only hold us back. If we somehow can fuck PSR off, there’s no question they’d be neck and neck with us every season.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, Gawalls said:

You mean Crystal Palace aren’t direct rivals with Man City 😁 - I agree with you for what it’s worth and I never expected any of our players to retire here and if we could sell for a profit and learn to do it well and use that to grow us but not become known for just that like Brighton are ie get the balance right then great. I had no problems with selling Minteh for example ands thought the meltdown of some was insane but we’ve been brought up in a time of the shearer where players retired for their boyhood club, not like that any more and never will be.

Yep - in the long run it would be nice to be rivals with Man City and Liverpool.   But I don’t consider Nottingham Forest to be our rivals, despite being above us for most of last season.  Claiming that Liverpool are direct rivals at present seems borderline delusional to me.  Nowt wrong with aiming to get there, but we aren’t there atm.