How to "fix" domestic cups

[Geordie_once_removed]

40 minutes ago, Superior Acuña said:

Absolutely I would care, it would fundamentally destroy the prestige of the cups. As well as removing the top teams it’d mean loads more care less about it. Us and Palsce got to enjoy our cups so much cos we won a top tier comp that included all the (best) teams 

I think this is entirely down to personal perspective. I'm feeling pretty disenchanted with football at the moment, so I think this shifts my view. 

 

I was never happy with the Saudi sale. However, I could see how it might bring success, which would always be tainted for me, but I knew in my heart of hearts I would celebrate and enjoy anyway. The ruIes however mean we now arguably have the worst of both worlds. Morally dubious owners (to put it mildly) and still such a clear ceiling to our potential success, that we're forced to feed on scraps off the big table.

 

Personally I would see any cup win after such a rules change in the same light, it would come with caveats sure, but I think I would celebrate it the same because following Newcastle was passed down to me and it's about as old as any of memories.

[1881]

It is the broadcasters, sponsors  and media companies who are pumping the most money into the game by far so they have to be kept happy. Would they have wanted a Southampton v Leeds final? Absolutely not.
 

They want  to attract the biggest global viewing figures to attract advertisers therefore they are desperate for the clubs with the biggest viewing figures to be as successful as possible. 
 

Unfortunately therefore we are more likely to see more rule changes which favour those clubs, such as changing the cup-tied rules.

 

And we are more likely to get more invitation-only competitions with massive prizes. Even these can get rule changes such as changing the transfer window.

 

the whole caboodle is corrupt as hell.

[Wolfcastle]

Genuinely thought this was a guide to how they've fixed the domestic cups. 

 

More like it was (last Millennium) and less like it is now is a step in the right direction in whatever way to fixing it but its never going to happen. Likely to kill them further still if anything.

I think at least one of the Europa or Conference should be a straight knockout. Copying the same format as the CL is basically just saying they've brand X versions of it.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26 by Wolfcastle

[Keefaz]

Call the League Cup the League Cup and not the bloody Panda Cola Cup or whatever. Other than that, I've no suggestions.

[Elbel1]

3 hours ago, Andy said:

Half time shows, every player wears go-pros and the footage constantly shifts to them, David Coote Corner where he chips in on refereeing decisions from prison, double-VAR where every VAR decision has to be VAR'd again, goalkeeper interviews while the ball is down the other end of the pitch 

Multi ball action - An extra ball is brought into play every 5 min during extra time. 

Red means danger - In the event of a red card, the player to be sent off is selected by the opposing teams manager. 

[Elbel1]

3 hours ago, Andy said:

Half time shows, every player wears go-pros and the footage constantly shifts to them, David Coote Corner where he chips in on refereeing decisions from prison, double-VAR where every VAR decision has to be VAR'd again, goalkeeper interviews while the ball is down the other end of the pitch 

Elanga leveller - When a team is drawn against an opponent from 2 leagues below them, they are forced to play Anthony Elanga on the right wing to make the game more competitive. 

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Clubs have to submit cup squads at the beginning of the season, limit the number of 'senior' players.

 

Idea would be to reduce the playing burden on players, stop clubs playing fringe players to the semi/final then bringing in the big guns (i.e. reward those who got you there) and provide opportunities to younger players.

 

All TV rights to be on free to air channels

[RobsonsWonderland]

Make the league cup have a minimum of 3 under 23 starters, 5 in the match day squad.

 

Champions league already has something similar with their squad rules but this would mean youngsters getting a chance.

 

 

 

 

[FLUMPO235]

I haven’t thought this through much, but. for the league cup, the last team to get knocked out from outside the prem, gets auto promotion to the prem at the end of the season.

 

obviously would have to reduce the number of teams promoted from the championship. 
 

but it might make it more exciting if league 2 teams have a shot of getting into the prem.

 

Someone would have to work out the logistics, like what if every non prem side got knocked out in the same round. 

[TheBrownBottle]

13 hours ago, Geordie_once_removed said:

So the League Cup was between Arsenal and Man City. The FA Cup will be be between Man City and Chelsea. All 4 teams played in the Champions League and their fans apart from on the day and maybe the week after won't really care it they win. Their finances won't be impacted much either as they get so much money from elsewhere. In short these competitions are increasing won by clubs who on the whole don't care and don't need the wins.  So how about this as a suggestion.

 

1. You qualify for the Champions League (you could make this all European competitions) you don't play in domestic cups

2. Bring back replays as these really help out smaller clubs and were got rid of purely to ease match congestion of clubs playing in Europe. They're also fun if you aren't playing 2 times a week for 2/3 of the season.

3. Bin off VAR in the cups, just because it's a bit shit and there she be all about living in the moment and not micro analysing decisions.

 

I know you might argue would devalue these competitions as the best teams weren't in them, but honestly if Newcastle won the 2027 FA Cup final against Leeds and some bellend said "You only won that because X weren't in it" would you care? I wouldn't, I'd just find it a useful dickhead detecting device.

No - the FA Cup has been undermined more than enough.   It should be the centrepiece of English football. 
 

Not all that arsed about the League Cup - maybe that’s worth looking at.   But the FA Cup has been buggered around with enough. 

[TheBrownBottle]

13 hours ago, Stifler said:

1: You can’t do it, UEFA decides who qualifies for the Champions League, and they have rules that Champions League places are not for reward in cup competitions, or play offs. The Dutch had to change their play offs a few years ago to reflect this.

 

2: It won’t really help them. The difference between top level clubs and the lower and non-league clubs is massive now. You have teams like Chelsea who are able to have 3 squads worth of players on their book, all of quality most teams wouldn’t have 1 player of similar quality. Draws are a rare occurrence when the difference is so big. I’d also argue that most league clubs shouldn’t be relying on income from cups to get by.

 

3: There is an arguement to be had over VAR, however in my opinion the negatives of it won’t be addressed until we move away from referees and former referees being the ones to make the decisions. This also raises further discussions over the quality of our officials. 

When did 1) change?  I thought it was still in the gift of the national associations to determine which clubs qualify for Europe - UEFA just determine the number of slots.  

[gjohnson]

Isn't a fix fairly easy? Put balls in a bag and have someone not associated with a particular club pull them? Job done

[Collage]

Read "Howe to fix domestic cups" and thought he'd got a new job for the FA

[RobsonsWonderland]

And both semi finals at 3pm on BBC Saturday/Sunday 

 

Loved the build up back in the day for the actual final

[Stifler]

4 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

When did 1) change?  I thought it was still in the gift of the national associations to determine which clubs qualify for Europe - UEFA just determine the number of slots.  

It was a little while back. I think it was after the Everton-Liverpool affair where another country swapped a Champions League spot with a UEFA Cup place with the English FA.

UEFA now dictate which positions get a Champions League place. Europa League and Conference League slots are bit more up to the individual FA’s to determine, hence why the Netherlands have play offs for these positions.

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Stifler said:

It was a little while back. I think it was after the Everton-Liverpool affair where another country swapped a Champions League spot with a UEFA Cup place with the English FA.

UEFA now dictate which positions get a Champions League place. Europa League and Conference League slots are bit more up to the individual FA’s to determine, hence why the Netherlands have play offs for these positions.

Makes sense - UEFA don’t want to dilute their cash cow!

[bealios]

I think the cups are fine. If you think back to a few years ago where Man U I think were allowed to withdraw from an earlier round as they wanted to play in some tournament over Christmas - that was potentially a death knell for the FA Cup in terms of it being devalued. Somewhat counter-intuitively, I think the emergence of the Big 6 cartel has had the unexpected impact of bringing more value to the cup competitions - now if you're in that cartel and have a trophy-less season, its a big deal which gets spoken about in the media - hence why you see more big teams taking them seriously. 

 

I would much rather preserve the value of the cups, than make them easier to win. I like the fact that to win our only cup in my lifetime we had to beat strong Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool sides. Also, if you took them out of the cups, it gives them an even greater advantage in the league. 

 

If I had a choice, I would make the cups more valuable:

 

1. FA Cup - guaranteed CL place. If the winner has already qualified for CL, it goes to the highest ranking team in the Cup who hasn't already qualified for CL via the league. If that means that two losing semi-finalist have equal claims, let them have a play-off on the day before the FA Cup final as a warm up for the main event at a neutral stadium - would make FA Cup final weekend a proper event. 

 

2. League Cup - guaranteed Europa League place. Same process as above with a play off if there are multiple candidates.  You could in theory have two play-offs with the above system. What a weekend of football that would be. 

 

3. Move the FA Cup back to the final weekend of the season (you would need to do that for the play-off idea to work anyway as you would need to know final league positions). 

 

There would be a bit of admin involved with the scheduling of play-offs last minute, but it isn't impossible. 

 

Might also mean you dilute the cartel a bit, as CL/EL spaces might end up being spread a bit more widely. From NUFC point of view, we would have probably had a couple of extra EL campaigns but wouldn't have qualified for CL last year. But if you do really want to fix the cups and make them more interesting, I don;t think we can say "unless it harms NUFC". That's cartel behaviour...!

 

 

 

 

[RobsonsWonderland]

Just seen a post where City will have played at Wembley 34 times in 15 years.

 

If we flip that around there is nothing wrong with the cups but the fact that one club has dominated the landscape for so long.

 

I can imagine the city fan appeal will dip... Especially knowing you are going to win the semi final and need to pay 500 plus in a month's time for the final.

 

Oh to have those problems 

[Loki679]

16 hours ago, RobsonsWonderland said:

Make the league cup have a minimum of 3 under 23 starters, 5 in the match day squad.

 

Champions league already has something similar with their squad rules but this would mean youngsters getting a chance.

 

 

 

 

 

Wouldn't that just further favour the cartel clubs as they stockpile all the best young players?

[RobsonsWonderland]

2 hours ago, Loki679 said:

 

Wouldn't that just further favour the cartel clubs as they stockpile all the best young players?

Maybe weight it by league?

[Jonas]

On 26/04/2026 at 17:52, SteV said:

Actually the issue/problem isn’t really the cup(s) as such, it’s the financial disparity between the current ‘elite’ and the rest, and the restrictions placed on clubs that want to close that.

 

If they could improve/lessen that (yes, I know…), then you have more of a competitive balance resulting in a bigger spread of cup winners over time.

 

In the 25years since the old Wembley was pulled down I make it 14 non-elite teams of the day have made the finals.

Before Man United's dominance, the multi place CL four/five/six and takeovers kicked in - the previous ten years (1990 - 2000) there were 20 - and arguably you could add Villa circa 94, Villa and Leeds circa 96 and us in 1999 to that for 24. Fans rightly fancied their chances of at least a final on the back of just a couple wins. Now, e.g., we've just had a semi that most of us were completely convinced we'd lose comfortably. 

 

All the solutions seem to run counter to making money so sod the game and they'll never happen but having a 'third round day' again instead of a third round week, teams with the weaker records getting home advantage in the league cup, universal (by division) spend limits etc. would help.

 

 

Edited April 27 by Jonas

[Loki679]

18 hours ago, RobsonsWonderland said:

Maybe weight it by league?

 

Or just do it by weight.  Everyone is allowed 1500kg of players in their squad.