St James' Park

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, manorpark said:

 

It is also an inaccurate opinion.

Matters of personal taste can't be inaccurate - you can disagree, of course.  Personally, I've never liked SJP in its current state.

[manorpark]

Just now, TheBrownBottle said:

Matters of personal taste can't be inaccurate - you can disagree, of course.  Personally, I've never liked SJP in its current state.

 

You are wrong there, it is an inaccurate opinion. You can allow some flexibility along the lines of "it is only my opinion", but there are limits to that.

[timeEd32]

49 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Never understood the obsession with getting NFL to SJP.  I doubt they'd consider going to Newcastle in any case.

 

But there are other reasons to support a move

 

We've likely largely missed the boat on the NFL, though with their continued focus on growing internationally it's certainly possible as a once in awhile thing. But really the NFL is just a three letter way of saying any non-football sport played on grass, plus concerts, other events, and non-NUFC football.

[Ketsbaia]

I'm still erring on the side of staying at SJP but could probably be convinced if they ensure it's still got a supreme location (is Castle Leazes up by the BBC?) and has a unique design with character, maybe even asymmetrical. Keep fans on board for the design.

[TheBrownBottle]

36 minutes ago, manorpark said:

 

You are wrong there, it is an inaccurate opinion. You can allow some flexibility along the lines of "it is only my opinion", but there are limits to that.

Any discussion re building aesthetics is absolutely subjective.  SJP is not an attractive building IMO - very few stadiums are.  You disagree - no issues with that, but you're no more factually correct than I am.

[et tu brute]

4 hours ago, Heron said:

I think they could invest in SJP and make it a lot better though, I don't see the need to move other than to get more bodies in.

The cost of that though with the current placement of the ground and the surrounding restrictions, would not be financially sound, for the amount of additional seats it would provide. The additional fact that we would lose revenue due to stand(s) being closed and that season ticket holders would not be able to attend, makes it a non viable for an extension. It's a no brainer all round to me, that a new stadium is the only viable option. 

 

 

Edited September 4 by et tu brute

[TheBrownBottle]

20 minutes ago, et tu brute said:

The cost of that though with the current placement of the ground and the surrounding restrictions, would not be financially sound, for the amount of additional seats it would provide. The additional fact that we would lose revenue due to stand(s) being closed and that season ticket holders would not be able to attend, makes it a non viable for an extension. It's a no brainer all round to me, that a new stadium is the only viable option. 

 

 

 

Yep - I've seen those daft videos online which make it all seem so simple: just raise the pitch level, move it 10m to the north west, then knockdown and extend the East Stand; rebuild the Gallowgate over Strawberry Place and SJ Metro; then extend the Milburn and Leazes backwards to finish the job.

 

Every one of those is a colossal undertaking, some of which may not even be possible, and would lead to significant disruptions to current ST holders including reduced capacity.

 

Then there is the lack of space for corporate etc.

 

This all boils down to what we want from the club, for me - do we want to fulfil the stated aims of PIF, or are we happy with being a top half side which challenges for Europe?  If the latter, then SJP and any possible extension would be sufficient for that.  But we cannot reach elite status at a brushed-up SJP - there would be far too much potential income left on the shelf for that.  An extension to SJP to 60,000 say would limit matchday revenues to well under 50m even if we were to have multiple cup runs including Europe.

 

For anyone wanting a comparison, matchday revenue for NUFC in 2022-23 (when we finished 4th and had a cup run to a final with multiple home ties including a SF) was 33m; that same season, Man Utd's was 126m, Spurs's was 125m, Liverpool 112m and Arsenal was 94m.  Other than Man Utd, their capacity is not that much different from ours - the difference is ticket pricing, corporate, commercial and sponsorship - which we cannot match at SJP.  (To show the difficulty, Man City's matchday revenue was 64m - pretty much same capacity, and they don't have the insane pricing of the others, but still double ours due to sponsorship and corporate).

[TheBrownBottle]

I actually don't think PIF will move from SJP, ultimately - just my guess.  I think they'll be looking to see if extending the Gallowgate and tarting up or replacing the East Stand are possibilities and to maximise the potential footprint.  I don't think that they'll sink the c.1bn required to build a state-of-the-art stadium which would be a game changer.  Again, just a guess.

[cubaricho]

11 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I actually don't think PIF will move from SJP, ultimately - just my guess.  I think they'll be looking to see if extending the Gallowgate and tarting up or replacing the East Stand are possibilities and to maximise the potential footprint.  I don't think that they'll sink the c.1bn required to build a state-of-the-art stadium which would be a game changer.  Again, just a guess.

Staying at SJP and “expanding” would surely start creeping towards that 1b number you’re talking about, right?

[r0cafella]

12 minutes ago, cubaricho said:

Staying at SJP and “expanding” would surely start creeping towards that 1b number you’re talking about, right?

No chance, an extension isn’t going to be a b. If so you’d just rebuild. 
 

Spurs stadium cost 1.2b for example. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think the main problem is there's nowhere else for us to play, therefore only small extensions are feasible which won't be big enough to warrant the hassle. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, cubaricho said:

Staying at SJP and “expanding” would surely start creeping towards that 1b number you’re talking about, right?

Assuming that the Gallowgate can be extended, when I scratched up a cost plan based on the assumed design I was coming out at around 100m for the extension alone (generally in the UK, new stadiums at PL standard cost 12-14k per seat), allowing for normal ground conditions.  But the issue is that the site is complex, has constraints, and sits on top of an underground station - so even if a design solution can be come up with to build across the underground station, then given the extended construction period required you're looking at comfortably more double that - just to extend the Gallowgate by c.8,000 seats (including the Gallowgate / Milburn corner); that part of the ground also sits on a significant slope, which would make even the corner a pain the arse construction-wise.  I think you're looking at around 200m before you even touch the East Stand - and that's even if the works are possible.

 

Bearing in mind that the seats at the back of the Gallowgate would be the cheapest in the ground, it isn't exactly optimising the investment cost.

[r0cafella]

14 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I think the main problem is there's nowhere else for us to play, therefore only small extensions are feasible which won't be big enough to warrant the hassle. 

It’s temporary; we can’t have our cake and eat it. If the fans insist on staying in the same location a reduced capacity elsewhere is a sacrifice they have to make. 

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

It’s temporary; we can’t have our cake and eat it. If the fans insist on staying in the same location a reduced capacity elsewhere is a sacrifice they have to make. 

If they're doing those polls again, the question should be framed in terms of 'if staying at SJP means that you lose your ST for a couple of seasons, would you want to remain at SJP'.

 

Everyone always assumes that it will be someone else's problem.

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

If they're doing those polls again, the question should be framed in terms of 'if staying at SJP means that you lose your ST for a couple of seasons, would you want to remain at SJP'.

 

Everyone always assumes that it will be someone else's problem.

The problem with such questions is become Luddite’s about the matter, a lot will genuinely not want to move or do anything if it involves any form of personal sacrifice. 
 

IMO it’s patently obvious we need a new stadium mind but no matter what is decided a lot of people are going to be upset. 

[TheBrownBottle]

11 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

The problem with such questions is become Luddite’s about the matter, a lot will genuinely not want to move or do anything if it involves any form of personal sacrifice. 
 

IMO it’s patently obvious we need a new stadium mind but no matter what is decided a lot of people are going to be upset. 

The average age of a ST is older than me - and I'm not a young'un - there is a sizeable proportion of curmudgeonly sods  

 

I agree, though; there isn't going to an answer which appeases everyone.  I think a new stadium is necessary to compete in the long term - regardless of the more optimistic views re FFP, I can't see a future without some form of it in football; the days of wild west financials are gone, and with it the ability to just chuck money around.

 

Personally, I just want NUFC to be the best it can be - I support them because that's the name of my city on the crest, not because of the bit of land in the city that they play on.  I know very, very few would be happy with a move outside the city centre - and happily, I don't think that would be necessary.  I'm not particularly sure that PIF will build a ground, but I don't see how they achieve their stated aims without it.

[PauloGeordio]

 

[Heron]

6 hours ago, 80 said:

I'm sympathetic to a lot of what you're saying, but football does really need it's supporters. And generations are going to be locked out at this rate, with the average age of matchgoers being pensionable in the next decade or so. 

 

Massive growth is the best chance of enabling more people to support the club and keeping prices from skyrocketing even higher.

I also sympathise with what you're saying here too, but it's not the only way for me. It's the only way because ultimately the poor man has to pay, as in any walk of life. They could all stop being greedy twats and stop dishing our multi-million contracts for people who simply perform at a sport and atop bleeding the working man dry.

[Heron]

6 hours ago, LFEE said:

Better view for the majority? Better acoustics for all? Allow more of those currently locked out in?

 

Gotta move with the times. SJP in 1983 (first visit) has nothing remaining including the pitch when they dug it up for under soil heating as it is today.

 

Maybe even a bigger storage cupboard for WorFlags 

 

I'd not even do it for that.

[Stifler]

Yeah, I just don’t see why we add only 8k cheap seats which would do nothing for corporate offerings, nothing for other uses of the stadium etc, and wouldn’t be a cheap alternative. Building over the Metro lines is possible, New York has built skyscrapers over their rail yards, but there is a difference between real estate prices in Manhattan, and a stadium used 19 times a year in Newcastle.

 

The dream scenario is to build a new stadium on a slightly bigger footprint of SJP. But that comes with its own challenges as well. Spurs for example played a season at the old White Heart Lane without a stand, then spent 2.5 years playing at Wembley. When you have half our fans throwing toys out of the pram at the mere suggestion of playing at the SOL, plus inevitable police concerns, is it really that much of an option?

 

As others have said, if PIF have high hopes for us, and we have to play by the rules, then a new stadium is realistically the only option. The only option that would get most onboard would be Castle Leazes.

[cubaricho]

4 hours ago, r0cafella said:

No chance, an extension isn’t going to be a b. If so you’d just rebuild. 
 

Spurs stadium cost 1.2b for example. 

Exactly.

[cubaricho]

4 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Everyone always assumes that it will be someone else's problem.

Big energy. 

[Stifler]

On 04/09/2024 at 23:59, manorpark said:

You are wrong there, it is an inaccurate opinion. You can allow some flexibility along the lines of "it is only my opinion", but there are limits to that.

I think it’s starting to show its age.

The East stand is coming to the end of its life considering the materials/methods it was created with.

The cladding on the stadium has weathered badly, and now it’s very much like a ‘rain ahead’ grey in the sky.

The glass atrium looks good, but the tunnel underneath the Milburn stand is dark, dirty in places, and has bits of the old ground, including corrugated steel staircases.

 

 

Edited September 6 by Stifler

[FloydianMag]

9 hours ago, Doc said:

I was born in 68, can still remember Moncur holding it up. 😁

Sure

[FloydianMag]

8 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

SJP was a shiny new build 20-odd years ago.  It isn't the same ground I attended in my youth other than the East Stand - and if you're my dad's age, it is a completely different ground.

Agreed………as someone who stood on the old Leazes end.