Dr. TC Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 22 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: That only tells you the proportion of their support which is local, not how big the local support is. Yes, but all the online resources I could find quoted similar supporter numbers for us and Everton, so the proportions match. We clearly have a bigger local support as a one club city. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just now, Dr. TC said: Yes, but all the online resources I could find quoted similar supporter numbers for us and Everton, so the proportions match. We clearly have a bigger local support as a one club city. All arguable tbf mate - Liverpool is a much larger city, as is its catchment area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, SteV said: Maybe historically, but nowadays it’s so easy for large London clubs to fill the ground. West Ham went from 35k to 62k no bother. Anyway, as I say I don’t really want to get into it too much, as it’s all a bit ‘my dad’s bigger than your dad’. Ourselves, Everton, West Ham all have very large fanbases, if obviously a step down from the global attraction of Man Utd and Liverpool. Based on my own judgement when visiting and what I have read from their fans West Ham's supporter composition has changed quite a bit since the move. Would say at least half of that 27k jump is made up of tourists and more casual fans. There's also a relatively small, but vocal number, who have stopped going regularly since the move. Quite enjoyed going there as a one off, particularly as it was a nice summer day and I hadn't really explored the surrounding area before, but the thought of going to that ground every week would be soul destroying to me if I'd supported them my whole life. Edited February 20 by ponsaelius Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcastle Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) Everton were getting 13,000 a year before winning the championship in the 80s, a year they won the FA Cup and got 13,000 in the PL era. That's lower than the standard dig at us when we were in the bottom half of the second divsion without a trophy for quarter of a century and at our all time lowest ebb. We took more to the charity shield than Everton and Blackburn took combined a year earlier. Cant make a case they're better supported than us at all. Fanbase has to manifest in gates at some point to have some basis in reality. Edited February 20 by Wolfcastle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 6 hours ago, Wolfcastle said: Everton were getting 13,000 a year before winning the championship in the 80s, a year they won the FA Cup and got 13,000 in the PL era. That's lower than the standard dig at us when we were in the bottom half of the second divsion without a trophy for quarter of a century and at our all time lowest ebb. We took more to the charity shield than Everton and Blackburn took combined a year earlier. Cant make a case they're better supported than us at all. Fanbase has to manifest in gates at some point to have some basis in reality. Everton’s average gate has dipped below 20k only once since the Great War - in 83/84, when it dropped to just over 19k. Which was the case for pretty much every club in that era. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 8 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said: All arguable tbf mate - Liverpool is a much larger city, as is its catchment area. It’s not. It might be larger, but not massively so. Considering Newcastle’s population statistics omits places that are clearly within the catchment area because of the break up of the different councils, it skews the figures massively. I’ve done a calculation on the SSC forum in the past about it, and both cities are comparable. Edited February 21 by Stifler Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 I think people are looking at the wrong aspect over Everton's capacity. Since they last got crowds as large as their stadium now, they have had a share a city with one of the country’s most successful clubs who have became a global giant. Meanwhile they have been stuck in a small stadium that hasn’t really allowed new fans in. It is reasonable to ask the question ‘if they can reach those figures now?’ You also have to consider the fact though that just like us, they are not building a stadium just for the here and now. They are building one with the next 50-70 years in mind. Event attendances across the board are increasing, populations and urban area populations are increasing. Clubs may go under a period of success which would also attract fans. I honestly think it doesn’t really matter to us about their new stadium, aside from looking at it and seeing what we would and wouldn’t want from it in our new stadium. Personally, aside from it looking good in the skyline, I’m not a fan. I think once you get close to it, it’s rather bland without offering much more than what is on offer at most stadiums these days. I do believe that it could have been much more, and I think Everton have dropped a massive opportunity. I actually think sooner or later Liverpool will realise that they can’t do much more with Anfield and will revert back to plans to move across the road where they will follow in Man Utd’s footsteps and create a mega stadium, which in turn will take away all the other events Everton hope to host. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 8 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said: All arguable tbf mate - Liverpool is a much larger city, as is its catchment area. 39 minutes ago, Stifler said: It’s not. It might be larger, but not massively so. Considering Newcastle’s population statistics omits places that are clearly within the catchment area because of the break up of the different councils, it skews the figures massively. I’ve done a calculation on the SSC forum in the past about it, and both cities are comparable. Depends what you're meaning by catchment area and the relevant criteria. If we're using Makematics then, for us, you have to include the North Sea. For Everton, and Liverpool, you have to factor in the Irish Sea which is smaller than the North Sea. More importantly the Irish Sea is attached to the land mass of Ireland who's population support anyone in Red or Green hoops. Everton get the dregs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenC Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) You don't have to factor in any seas unless you're a mackem clutching at straws this concept of a perfectly circular catchment area from which it's reasonable to assume fans will flock is compromised in most ways at best, and it's way more complex in virtually all scenarios. Mackematics indeed Edited February 21 by OpenC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenC Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) You'd need as a bare minimum a Glory Hunter Modifier, a Rugby Area Coefficient, a Regional Wealth Adjustment, a How Many Clubs Calculation, a Nissan Back Shift Bearing. Even with these I'm not sure the Catchment Calc is any better than xG Maybe xAt for attendances will be next Edited February 21 by OpenC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 8 minutes ago, OpenC said: You don't have to factor in any seas unless you're a mackem clutching at straws this concept of a perfectly circular catchment area from which it's reasonable to assume fans will flock is compromised in most ways at best, and it's way more complex in virtually all scenarios. Mackematics indeed True. Here's Liverpool's catchment area Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Here's Man U's, including The Ashington Collective... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenC Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 bang on Where does the Isle of Man fall? Spurs glory hunters I reckon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 17 minutes ago, OpenC said: You'd need as a bare minimum a Glory Hunter Modifier, a Rugby Area Coefficient, a Regional Wealth Adjustment, a How Many Clubs Calculation, a Nissan Back Shift Bearing. Even with these I'm not sure the Catchment Calc is any better than xG Maybe xAt for attendances will be next But we do that as well. You leave the match and say to your mates "poor showing from their lot like, didn't sell out and gaps all over" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenC Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Aye of course what I'm against is the idea that there's some way to determine through science and maths how extensive those gaps should be Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 35 minutes ago, OpenC said: bang on Where does the Isle of Man fall? Spurs glory hunters I reckon Lewis Hamilton supports Arsenal, no? I don't know about Nigel Mansell, other than he is or was a plakka bizzie so he's probably a Fulham fan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 11 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said: There is an argument that Everton has a bigger fanbase than us Don't think they're anywhere near us tbh. Last time they averaged more than us was in 1991/1992 (the season we almost got relegated to Division 3) and our historical average is higher than theirs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitley mag Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Everton’s only averaged over 50k once in their history, big club but think we have far greater potential crowd size wise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Aye there's a good reason why they only went to 52k for their new stadium and we'll be looking at around the 70k mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said: Aye there's a good reason why they only went to 52k for their new stadium and we'll be looking at around the 70k mark. That is a valid point. For all the talk of ‘hitting the sweet spot’ where you have a big crowd but still have demand (slightly) outstripping supply, we’re already at that capacity near enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 4 hours ago, Groundhog63 said: True. Here's Liverpool's catchment area You need add Scandinavia to that map, and I'd say they dominate all of Wales for English club support Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 13 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said: All arguable tbf mate - Liverpool is a much larger city, as is its catchment area. But all their local support has probably thrown their lot in with Liverpool now apart from the diehards. 40 years of domination by one club will do that to a fanbase. That's why they've gone with a smaller stadium, they know it as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 7 minutes ago, Colos Short and Curlies said: You need add Scandinavia to that map, and I'd say they dominate all of Wales for English club support Tbf, it was just a bit of fun. If I serious I'd have just stuck the globe on 😂 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrone Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) Canny Pedestrian zone next to St James' Park confirmed https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnvzdn3r1reo Edited February 21 by patrone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Jinx Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Will they change it then if we build a new stadium behind SJP? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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