St James' Park

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Before getting onto anything else, it's based on the notion that if your argument is both 'we need a new stadium in order to maximise PSR' (an argument with a lot of flaws in it anyway) and 'we need a new stadium to stop people being locked out' then - based on the evidence of how other clubs have done it - at some point maximising PSR via match tickets will be at odds with unlocking those doors.

 

Mainly though it's a notion just based on the evidence.

 

Ticket prices - including the cheapest tickets - have gone up in price with stadium moves at clubs that have moved. The percentage of cheap seats that are available has also decreased with the exception of West Ham.

 

Our prices have gone up across the board, not just with tickets - Matchday, VIP, merch - and the club has changed the system which seems to have been to the benefit of tourist fans willing to spend more via agents.

 

Re demand and prices sky rocketing,  it's not necessarily about prices rocketing it's about them going up enough that they price people out. Obviously ticket prices at SJP don't rise and fall based on a natural economic system, they're still controlled by the club and you can point to a number of reasons why they haven't massively gone up - price freezes, bad PR, that matchday is negligible in terms of PSR etc.

 

But that leads on to another point -  the club won't want to build a stadium that gives access to all anyway - a bit like having a reserve work force that keeps wages low, they'll want a reserve set of fans who are still locked out and want to get in, in order to keep ticket prices high. 

As I've stated previously prices are going up regardless of weather we move or not. This is the trend both in football but in the wider entertainment industry. It's a given at this point. 

 

It's obvious at this point if we wish to compete we have to increase our revenue and a new stadium is the platform in which to do this. 

 

Maybe my brain power is used for the day but I'm not sure what other point your making here. 

[Kid Icarus]

2 hours ago, r0cafella said:

Its a proper grim narrative, us and glory seeking and mutually exclusive at this stage

 

I think it's fairly reasonable considering a decent chunk of the posts most vocally in favour of a stadium come from people who don't live in the UK, let alone Newcastle, and will get to visit it at best once or twice a season. There's probably a nicer way of saying it though, admittedly. 

 

 

Edited November 22 by Kid Icarus

[r0cafella]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

 

I think it's a fairly reasonable considering a decent chunk of the posts most vocally in favour of a stadium come from people who don't live in the UK, let alone Newcastle, and will get to visit it at best once or twice a season. There's probably a nicer way of saying it though, admittedly. 

So because people aren't from or living in the area they are second class fans who aren't worthy of opinion ? Or opinions which count for less?

[STM]

I wish one club would have the balls to be the first to completely slash ticket prices. With hundreds of millions in revenue, it would be such an easy win for any owner, especially ones with deep pockets.

 

It's ironic that another casualty of PSR is that it means clubs won't reduce ticket prices because it hurts their revenue and their ability to compete, even if it's just a slither of their overall revenue.

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

So because people aren't from or living in the area they are second class fans who aren't worthy of opinion ? Or opinions which count for less?

 

If we're talking about regularly attending matches, then not in those words but in terms of weight of opinion, yes. Sorry if that ruffles feathers, but I don't think there's anything controversial about saying that fans who are already or plan to attend matches every other week (regardless of location) should have more of a say than those who don't and don't plan to beyond once a year. I don't want us to become a tourist club, sorry. 

[gjohnson]

5 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

As I've stated previously prices are going up regardless of weather we move or not. This is the trend both in football but in the wider entertainment industry. It's a given at this point. 

 

It's obvious at this point if we wish to compete we have to increase our revenue and a new stadium is the platform in which to do this. 

 

Maybe my brain power is used for the day but I'm not sure what other point your making here. 

Prices will continue to rise until people stop paying them...whoever said the club aren't governed by normal economic rules is dead wrong in that sense.

 

If the club could fill a stadium charging 3k for a season ticket they would. As long as we're not relegated and attendances aren't falling they aren't going to get cheaper.

 

In a world without stupid financial rules like psr/fmv we could give away tickets for free and the owners probably wouldn't even notice the difference on a balance sheet

[Kid Icarus]

11 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

As I've stated previously prices are going up regardless of weather we move or not. This is the trend both in football but in the wider entertainment industry. It's a given at this point. 

 

It's obvious at this point if we wish to compete we have to increase our revenue and a new stadium is the platform in which to do this. 

 

Maybe my brain power is used for the day but I'm not sure what other point your making here. 

 

Ticket prices post stadium move have nothing to do with inflation tbf, they're solely because of the stadium move. 

 

Re the bit in bold, matchday revenue is tiny in terms of PSR vs other income streams. There's probably just as much, if not more, value in lobbying against PSR or waiting out its inevitable destruction than there is in pretending a new stadium is anything even close to a silver bullet. 

 

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, gjohnson said:

Prices will continue to rise until people stop paying them...whoever said the club aren't governed by normal economic rules is dead wrong in that sense.

 

If the club could fill a stadium charging 3k for a season ticket they would. As long as we're not relegated and attendances aren't falling they aren't going to get cheaper.

 

In a world without stupid financial rules like psr/fmv we could give away tickets for free and the owners probably wouldn't even notice the difference on a balance sheet

Absolutely economics will be the limiting factor for sure to an extent. 

 

Tickets can always be sold to third parties to sell or bundled with other purchases for instance. 

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

Prices will continue to rise until people stop paying them...whoever said the club aren't governed by normal economic rules is dead wrong in that sense.

 

If the club could fill a stadium charging 3k for a season ticket they would. As long as we're not relegated and attendances aren't falling they aren't going to get cheaper.

 

In a world without stupid financial rules like psr/fmv we could give away tickets for free and the owners probably wouldn't even notice the difference on a balance sheet

If it was me then I said natural economic system ie the invisible hand, not normal economic rules. 

[gjohnson]

According to Forbes City are worth 4b and the UAE have invested 1,7b so those people (not you btw) who claim they are wasting money terrible investment etc are clearly misguided.

 

That's all well and good, but it is a terrible investment if their intention was to actually make money. Yes their 1.7b may be worth 4b now, but that only matters if they want to sell, and if there's anyone anyone willing or able to pay that. With no desire to sell or interested buyers it's still 1.7b spent with little prospect of getting it back

 

 

Edited November 22 by gjohnson

[gjohnson]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

If it was me then I said natural economic system ie the invisible hand, not normal economic rules. 

I stand corrected. Apologies if I got them mixed up

[HaydnNUFC]

1 minute ago, STM said:

I wish one club would have the balls to be the first to completely slash ticket prices. With hundreds of millions in revenue, it would be such an easy win for any owner, especially ones with deep pockets.

 

It's ironic that another casualty of PSR is that it means clubs won't reduce ticket prices because it hurts their revenue and their ability to compete, even if it's just a slither of their overall revenue.

 

Whilst I agree with the first bit it's hardly a casualty of PSR either. The FSA have wrote a few articles about this, it's a lie/excuse that so many unfortunately lap up.

 

https://thefsa.org.uk/news/ticket-price-pain-rising-costs-measured-in-the-football-price-index/

 

https://thefsa.org.uk/news/high-ticket-prices-are-not-the-answer-to-psr/

 

I've lost faith that it'll happen particularly for us. See our lot with the CL scheme last season and general price rises. Even on here.

 

Some defending Villa charging £94-£99 for 1 CL game regardless of opposition.

 

Only in recent times I remember Liverpool fans protesting against ticket price hikes. Back in 2016, their fans walked out of a game against the mackems on the 77th minute in protest at tickets going up to £77. Whilst LFC relented and lowered them back to before that protest, they were 2-0 up in that game against the mackems. After the walkout they conceded twice in the final 10 minutes and drew the game 2-2.

 

If that happened here the fans that walked out would be getting blamed by others for it rather than looking at the bigger picture. Many couldn't even when people tried protesting against Ashley.

[LFEE]

 

[Wallsendmag]

50 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

As I've stated previously prices are going up regardless of weather we move or not. This is the trend both in football but in the wider entertainment industry. It's a given at this point. 

 

It's obvious at this point if we wish to compete we have to increase our revenue and a new stadium is the platform in which to do this. 

 

Maybe my brain power is used for the day but I'm not sure what other point your making here. 

 

I know loads of lads who are on the fixed 10 year deals. There's a few of them against a new stadium because they believe that their season ticket process will rocket, totally oblivious at the fact it's going up around £300 in the summer anyway. Some of them only paying £480 as they were on the original deal which just kept getting extended and I think a standard Gallowgate End ST price is now £727.

[Kid Icarus]

22 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Whilst I agree with the first bit it's hardly a casualty of PSR either. The FSA have wrote a few articles about this, it's a lie/excuse that so many unfortunately lap up.

 

https://thefsa.org.uk/news/ticket-price-pain-rising-costs-measured-in-the-football-price-index/

 

https://thefsa.org.uk/news/high-ticket-prices-are-not-the-answer-to-psr/

 

I've lost faith that it'll happen particularly for us. See our lot with the CL scheme last season and general price rises. Even on here.

 

Some defending Villa charging £94-£99 for 1 CL game regardless of opposition.

 

Only in recent times I remember Liverpool fans protesting against ticket price hikes. Back in 2016, their fans walked out of a game against the mackems on the 77th minute in protest at tickets going up to £77. Whilst LFC relented and lowered them back to before that protest, they were 2-0 up in that game against the mackems. After the walkout they conceded twice in the final 10 minutes and drew the game 2-2.

 

If that happened here the fans that walked out would be getting blamed by others for it rather than looking at the bigger picture. Many couldn't even when people tried protesting against Ashley.

 

A lot of football fans do the PR legwork for clubs these days, often against themselves with things like ticket prices. It's mad. 

[r0cafella]

5 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

I know loads of lads who are on the fixed 10 year deals. There's a few of them against a new stadium because they believe that their season ticket process will rocket, totally oblivious at the fact it's going up around £300 in the summer anyway. Some of them only paying £480 as they were on the original deal which just kept getting extended and I think a standard Gallowgate End ST price is now £727.

I totally understand where they are coming from and it will obviously be gutting to get a price hike. At the same time it doesn't make any much  sense for some to be charged so little whilst others are paying much more. 

 

At some point regardless of the ground they will getting a hike though. 

[TRon]

1 hour ago, r0cafella said:

So because people aren't from or living in the area they are second class fans who aren't worthy of opinion ? Or opinions which count for less?

 

There's plenty of fans who live in the city who are also prepared to move if it means we can compete with the best. While I get the tradionalist angle, I don't want to be permanently categorised as second best, I would at least like to be on a level playing field with the top clubs. If that means moving to a new stadium then that's what we should do IMO.

[Kid Icarus]

54 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

There's plenty of fans who live in the city who are also prepared to move if it means we can compete with the best. While I get the tradionalist angle, I don't want to be permanently categorised as second best, I would at least like to be on a level playing field with the top clubs. If that means moving to a new stadium then that's what we should do IMO.

 

Do you think making up ground on Man United or Spurs' matchday revenue, let alone Chelsea, Man City or Liverpool's is going to be the silver bullet? And in the process of trying to get there, you lose SJP. It's just such a baseless argument that moving stadium is needed for PSR imo. 

 

 

 

Edited November 22 by Kid Icarus

[Iwantcurlyhair2]

I'm one of the fortunate ones who took out the 10 year deal and I'm only paying £294 for level 7 for each of my 2 tickets. When my daughter turned 21 the club told me I'd have to move or buy another child ticket so I bought one for my grandson 4 months prior to takeover which costs £86. Prior to the '10 year deal' which I think is in its 14th year now I took out the 3 year pay up front offer which reduced ticket prices by 30% and before that the 20% reduction by committing to 3 years of renewals. I am fully aware that my ticket costs will at least double and maybe more so, but just feel really fortunate that I have the tickets secured for my daughter and grandson, whatever the cost is. Whether we stay or move the ride we are on is worth every penny. The euphoria when we win something that I can share in the moment with two different generations of my family is priceless. 

I love St James and have so many memories but the first time I walk in to the new stadium and feel 5 years old again will be off the stratosphere. I took my daughter to the opening of Wembley in 2007 and she ended up on the front cover of the daily mirror which create an everlasting memory, but to walk into a new stadium with potentially 80000 fellow Newcastle fans will be a memory I will cherish, alongside our Caribou Cup win in 2025, till my dying day.

To me football is not only about the present and future, but the lifelong memories created along the way. I have loads of wonderful St James Park memories, but I'm happy to create new ones in Leazes Park. I was at the Stack night on Wednesday and the location was described as not to far to snap an elastic band so that can only mean Leazes Park. We should all get behind the move and create as many memories as we can to share with as many people as possible.

 

 

Unbelievably this was over 17 tears ago and she still comes with me. I just love it, love it!!

 

Lets have loads of seats and create as many memories to share with those closest to us. 

 

We should all be behind this. We all have tremendous memories of the Keegan days, Man U, Barcelona, Tiote's equaliser, PSG etc and they won't fade. But the creation of new ones, in hopefully the best stadium on the planet whilst walking post Eddie's statue every matchday as the first manager to win a trophy, will be equally exciting. Bring it on.

 

 

[Turnbull2000]

So a new stadium may bring us up from one-third to one-half the income of the lowest ranked breakaway club. Yeah, we're not getting near the top any time soon, if ever.

 

We basically need another £100mm of commercial income, which under the rules and regulations, is essentially impossible.

 

(edited to one-third!)

 

 

Edited November 22 by Turnbull2000

[DiddyLevine]

5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Do you think making up ground on Man United or Spurs' matchday revenue, let alone Chelsea, Man City or Liverpool's is going to be the silver bullet? And in the process of trying to get there, you lose SJP. It's just such a baseless argument that moving stadium is needed for PSR imo. 

 

 

 

 

We have to compete off the pitch as well

as on . 

[Tross]

Just now, DiddyLevine said:

We have to compete off the pitch as well

as on . 

 

And thats how stadiums lose their soul, by moving away from the traditions to keep the Swifties and the NFL wankers happy. Stay at SJP at all costs.

[DiddyLevine]

1 minute ago, Tross said:

 

And thats how stadiums lose their soul, by moving away from the traditions to keep the Swifties and the NFL wankers happy. Stay at SJP at all costs.

The soul is in the fans not in the concrete 

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, DiddyLevine said:

The soul is in the fans not in the concrete 

 

I actually agree with you here but not because it's something to be proud of at the moment. 

[DiddyLevine]

7 minutes ago, Turnbull2000 said:

So a new stadium may bring us up from two-thirds to one-half the income of the lowest ranked breakaway club. Yeah, we're not getting near the top any time soon, if ever.

 

We basically need another £100mm of commercial income, which under the rules and regulations, is essentially impossible.

Have you got that the wrong way round ? 2 thirds is more than half 

 

 

Edited November 22 by DiddyLevine
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