St James' Park

[Whitley mag]

Listening to Darren Eales I’m far less certain moving to a new stadium is off the menu. Even from talking about small things like the wrap around video screen at Mercedes Benz, compared to the tablet we currently have that half the stadium can’t see. 
 

My prediction is that this feasibility study will highlight so many restrictions, that when presented for fan consultation it’ll be weighted heavily in favour of a new stadium being the only viable option.

 

 

[Bellis80]

I think the ground is the main reason I go. Love being in there. I’d hate going to the Emirates or Tottenham’s ground every week. The US stadiums are impressive but must take up 3 or 4 times as much as space, so not getting anything like that.

[Keegans Export]

6 minutes ago, Bellis80 said:

I think the ground is the main reason I go. Love being in there. I’d hate going to the Emirates or Tottenham’s ground every week. The US stadiums are impressive but must take up 3 or 4 times as much as space, so not getting anything like that.

 

I've had a quick look on Google Maps and that stadium in Atlanta has a bigger footprint than SJP but it's not that much bigger. Maybe 30%?

[Bellis80]

Ah right, seem absolutely massive when walk up to them. Maybe just more space around them.

[Chris_R]

10 hours ago, Whitley mag said:

Listening to Darren Eales I’m far less certain moving to a new stadium is off the menu. Even from talking about small things like the wrap around video screen at Mercedes Benz, compared to the tablet we currently have that half the stadium can’t see. 
 

My prediction is that this feasibility study will highlight so many restrictions, that when presented for fan consultation it’ll be weighted heavily in favour of a new stadium being the only viable option.

 

 

 

As long as they keep it central, I don't mind a new stadium. And build it with atmosphere in mind, and sit people (or stand them) accordingly.

[ponsaelius]

With the constraints to extending, both in terms of navigating impact on listed buildings and constructing directly on top of the metro station, the cost of expanding East Stand and Gallowgate could genuinely run up to 400-500 million I reckon. 

 

By comparison Anfield Road End is costing £80 million, while their Main Stand cost £110 million a few years back. They have added around 16,000 seats across those expansions - which I think we'd be really struggling to come close to (probably more like 10k max).

 

I don't doubt we could extend, it's just the value you're getting out of it that is the issue. I can definitely see the club thinking that they could build a new stadium for that kind of money. Spurs stadium cost upwards of a billion, but I think about 40% of this was spent on land acquisition rather than build costs. We wouldn't have anywhere near those associated costs.

[r0cafella]

5 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

With the constraints to extending, both in terms of navigating impact on listed buildings and constructing directly on top of the metro station, the cost of expanding East Stand and Gallowgate could genuinely run up to 400-500 million I reckon. 

 

By comparison Anfield Road End is costing £80 million, while their Main Stand cost £110 million a few years back. They have added around 16,000 seats across those expansions - which I think we'd be really struggling to come close to (probably more like 10k max).

 

I don't doubt we could extend, it's just the value you're getting out of it that is the issue. I can definitely see the club thinking that they could build a new stadium for that kind of money. Spurs stadium cost upwards of a billion, but I think about 40% of this was spent on land acquisition rather than build costs. We wouldn't have anywhere near those associated costs.

If we were to knock and rebuild we would still face the same challenges though I imagine?

[ponsaelius]

Nah knock down and rebuild there's ways to either use more or less the same plot more efficiently - or build further up the hill on Castle Leazes.

 

The former just has the issue of where you play in the meantime.

[r0cafella]

Just now, ponsaelius said:

Nah knock down and rebuild there's ways to either use more or less the same plot more efficiently - or build further up the hill on Castle Leazes.

 

The former just has the issue of where you play in the meantime.

Given eales gushing about the stadium in Atlanta I wouldn’t be surprised if this was his preferred option. 

[Stifler]

32 minutes ago, Bellis80 said:

Ah right, seem absolutely massive when walk up to them. Maybe just more space around them.

I think any new stadium/redevelopment we get, will be on a larger footprint.

Concourses are bigger these days, offer more facilities etc.

There are plenty of NFL stadiums that fit within or just over a city block in the USA. It’s usually the parking which takes up massive amounts of room.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

As good as the Spurs stadium is my concourse experience was terrible. Absolutely rammed with people, almost impossible to move around and getting served was a nightmare. 

 

Maybe a lot more people go in because the surrounding area is a bit rougher, and they serve fancy beers. 

[bobbydazzla]

6 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

As good as the Spurs stadium is my concourse experience was terrible. Absolutely rammed with people, almost impossible to move around and getting served was a nightmare. 

 

Maybe a lot more people go in because the surrounding area is a bit rougher, and they serve fancy beers. 

 

I reckon some of the commercial thinking must be about how they can get people in the stadium for longer and spending more money, when the stadium is in a city centre location and competes with loads of bars and food options.

 

I think classic pattern is get into ground no more than 15 mins before KO, skull a pint of minging lager, battle through the queues for another pint of minging lager at half time, leave straight after. Maybe have a pie.

 

If the stadium has a decent food and drink offer you might get people going in earlier or staying after. But still not sure how much draw it would have over the city centre boozers and bait places.

 

Bit of a conundrum.

 

[r0cafella]

Wonder how long the feasibility study will take. Weren’t they doing the same for a new training ground location which has also gone silent. 

[Ben]

2 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Wonder how long the feasibility study will take. Weren’t they doing the same for a new training ground location which has also gone silent. 

TBF with the people involved in this decision working on behalf of us, infrastructure build is not something I'm worried about 

[bobbydazzla]

4 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Wonder how long the feasibility study will take. Weren’t they doing the same for a new training ground location which has also gone silent. 

 

is it feasible that the feasibility study will take so long that it leaves the atmosphere ?

[Kanj]

There is also the issue of rising costs of materials (and assuming labor too) in construction today. In the past, a new stadium may be be cost effective over a simple expansion. As @ponsaelius noted, the additional complications do not help with metro and listed buildings as clear roadblocks and potential pitfalls to an expansion. I won’t attempt to speculate the actual cost but whatever it was 5 years ago, it’s probably 30-70% more these days, especially the materials. 

[Orphanage]

42 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

 

I reckon some of the commercial thinking must be about how they can get people in the stadium for longer and spending more money, when the stadium is in a city centre location and competes with loads of bars and food options.

 

I think classic pattern is get into ground no more than 15 mins before KO, skull a pint of minging lager, battle through the queues for another pint of minging lager at half time, leave straight after. Maybe have a pie.

 

If the stadium has a decent food and drink offer you might get people going in earlier or staying after. But still not sure how much draw it would have over the city centre boozers and bait places.

 

Bit of a conundrum.

 

Hence the Sela fanzone park thingy which would attempt to draw in as many fans as possible before , during ( ticketless fans ) and after the match . Profits increased without extending the ground . Tbh i cant see a ground extension or a new build . Its just not cost effective 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

1 minute ago, Orphanage said:

Hence the Sela fanzone park thingy which would attempt to draw in as many fans as possible before , during ( ticketless fans ) and after the match . Profits increased without extending the ground . Tbh i cant see a ground extension or a new build . Its just not cost effective 

 

You think we'll just always keep the stadium the same?

[Orphanage]

1 hour ago, ponsaelius said:

Nah knock down and rebuild there's ways to either use more or less the same plot more efficiently - or build further up the hill on Castle Leazes.

 

The former just has the issue of where you play in the meantime.

If you were building on Castle Leazes youd just build a new stadium whilst retaining St James Park then when the new build is ready you would take SJP down . No need to play elsewhere at all 

[Orphanage]

1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

You think we'll just always keep the stadium the same?

As it stands yes . 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just now, Orphanage said:

As it stands yes . 

 

What does as it stands mean though?

[ponsaelius]

10 minutes ago, Orphanage said:

If you were building on Castle Leazes youd just build a new stadium whilst retaining St James Park then when the new build is ready you would take SJP down . No need to play elsewhere at all 

 

Yes that's why I only said the former would require playing elsewhere! 

[bobbydazzla]

8 minutes ago, Orphanage said:

As it stands yes . 

 

We've got a location that is amazing and should be coveted.

 

But thanks to Ashley the stadium looks dated and shabby. e.g. most people have tellys in their living room that are bigger than the ones on our concourse.

 

The Saudi's love shiny new building and infrastructure projects (see NEOM) and will want a stadium that compares favourably to other top teams. 

 

So I think it's inevitable we're getting an upgrade, just where and how are the questions.

[Orphanage]

20 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

What does as it stands mean though?

As it is . They can change the inside a bit upgrade it etc but i think the potential for extending the ground isnt there

[sushimonster85]

12 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

So I think it's inevitable we're getting an upgrade, just where and how are the questions.

 

I actually think that (as well as a 10k-15k capacity extension) there will also be a complete refurbishment of the interior. I know it's all been given a lick of paint recently, but I'm talking about new flooring and wall panelling going down over the concrete/brick that's there currently. New TVs, new kiosks etc.