Crouch > Martins

[Guest Knightrider]

OK the negatives have been well discussed, 16 goals despite being a s**** player playing in a s**** team, now imagine his return playing in a good side and actually losing some of those faults of his... That's what I look at.

And I look at what I see now and not at hypothetical scenarios.

 

Good for you, but football doesn't stand still and it is not beyond reason that Martins, in a better side, with more experience, can not improve further beyond what he has demonstrated so far which is 16 goals and numerous assists. Do you disagree with this?

 

What are you looking for exactly here Isegrim BTW?

 

I see at current a talented player producing the goods where it matters - goals and assists - so therefore I am extremely happy with his contribution and don't see a need to nit pick because I accept given his age and the team he is playing in under the tactics employed, not to mention this being his first season at the club, he isn't the finished article.

[Guest BooBoo]

Oba Martins had a blinder in the Liverpool game but his recent league performances since then have been nothing short of disgraceful.

 

Such a frustrating player. He's got the talent but picks and chooses when to show it.

[Guest Knightrider]

OK the negatives have been well discussed, 16 goals despite being a shite player playing in a shite team, now imagine his return playing in a good side and actually losing some of those faults of his... That's what I look at.

 

  What sort of an argument is that?  "Ok so his movement is poor and his touch is poor.  Imagine what would happen if they all of a sudden weren't poor!"

 

 

All of a sudden? I'm talking about in time which I suspect you know full well what I meant with my comments above, or do you think it unreasonable to think that in time, with better coaching, playing in a better side and with some experience behind him, he wont improve further?

[Skirge]

Martins and Crocuh would work well together but I really do not se eus getting Crouch anyway. The Owen thing is a waste of time, even if he came back fighting fit for the Shef game and played the rest of this season he still won't save our season, it showed yesterday that we cannot get the ball down and pass so we can feed 2 mobile strikers.

Fk me man Martins was having to pull right out tot he wings for the ball and Dyer was having to drop deep to pick it up.

You want your strikers to score goals them get up high and support them and GIVE THEM THE f****** BALL!!

[Mick]

 

f****** hell lad, I've said that 16 goals is a good return.  I'm also commenting that his touch and movement are consistently poor and his overall game suffers as a result.  Watch the lad play and you will see it for yourself.

 

Agreed, he's got the ball control of Shola, it just bounces anywhere.

[Shak]

Martins is better than Rooney tbh. 

 

Anyway, I like Martins and think that he has the potential to be an extremely good player. He's far from the finished article though and the last few games have served as a reminder to a few people who were going a bit overboard (see the Martins v Rooney thread) that he's far from polished.

 

It'll be interesting to see how he and Owen work together as a partnership. Oba isn't really a natural goalscorer, yet we've relied on him as our main scoring threat this year. With Owen back, it should take a bit of the pressure off Martins so he can play a bit deeper and drift more. Even then there are question marks as to whether his control and touch is good enough to be our link man up front.

 

Much depends on how clever he is, as in can he learn how to best use his strengths in the PL. AT times he looks like a headless chicken with the ball at his feet, as though he's constantly panicking. His goal against Liverpool at St. James is a good example of this. The ball broke to him and you could almost see him taking the two or three seconds to compose himself and slot it home (You can imagine what's going on in his head 'BALL!! THERE!! SHOOT, SHOOT NOW!HARD, HIT IT HARD!' but he restrains himself and manages to slot it home.)

 

If he develops a bit of composure on the ball and learns to play with his head up more, he could be a superb player. His pace will annihialte most Premiership defences if he's free to drift onto the wings and drive at full-backs knowing that Owen is sniffing about in the box looking for the ball across.

[ohmelads]

The 'problems' with Martins is for me his intelligence and positioning, he is an instictive finisher and will never lose that.

 

He misses far too many chances to be called an instinctive finisher for me, Parky.

 

Are you on about Martins or Crouch? That comment could be applied to either of them.

 

I think if you put Crouch in the Newcastle side he'd struggle. He's playing for a side sitting third in the Premiership table who dominate most of their games and create plenty of chances for their strikers. They're tactically sound with a top class management set up and they play to their strengths, which means when Crouch is on they play balls that suit him and play around him. Yesterday we didn't play to any strengths because we have an amatuer setup where no tactics can be seen out on the field. Martins and Dyer, perhaps the smallest strike force in the league, were asked to challenge big centre halfs for high balls all day or run around for misplaced passes.

 

Martins has had a huge weight on his shoulders this season. He's effectively had to carry us in the absence of Owen and Ameobi, our only other recognisable strikers (Sibierski and Dyer have never had a strike rate to speak of). Ask Crouch to be the sole man responsible for getting us goals all season and I think you'd be left pretty frustrated.

 

Truth is Martins has more in his locker than Crouch and has a few years on him to boot, but Crouch plays for a much better, much more organised team who play to his strengths and know how to use him. Martins in that sense joined the wrong club. If we don't sort ourselves out he will inevitably move on to a better side and then try comparing him to Peter Crouch.

[Isegrim]

OK the negatives have been well discussed, 16 goals despite being a s**** player playing in a s**** team, now imagine his return playing in a good side and actually losing some of those faults of his... That's what I look at.

And I look at what I see now and not at hypothetical scenarios.

 

Good for you, but football doesn't stand still and it is not beyond reason that Martins, in a better side, with more experience, can not improve further beyond what he has demonstrated so far which is 16 goals and numerous assists. Do you disagree with this?

 

What are you looking for exactly here Isegrim BTW?

 

I see at current a talented player producing the goods where it matters - goals and assists - so therefore I am extremely happy with his contribution and don't see a need to nit pick because I accept given his age and the team he is playing in under the tactics employed, not to mention this being his first season at the club, he isn't the finished article.

What am I looking for? I look for Martins starting to add his own contribution to the style of play and shape of the team, e.g. by using his pace for movement by getting behind the back of defenders and make himself available for passes. This would create space and unsettle defences. If he keeps his current playing style he will always score a fair amount of goals, but this will be it. In fact for me Martins could have scored half the number of goals and looked better in his overall approach to the game and I would be far more convinced than by looking at the stats and thinking OMG!! He scored 16 goals, he is DA MAN!!! Actually I think the goals will come back with Owen anyway, what will Martins contribution be then?

[ohmelads]

 

What am I looking for? I look for Martins starting to add his own contribution to the style of play and shape of the team, e.g. by using his pace for movement by getting behind the back of defenders and make himself available for passes. This would create space and unsettle defences. If he keeps his current playing style he will always score a fair amount of goals, but this will be it. In fact for me Martins could have scored half the number of goals and looked better in his overall approach to the game and I would be far more convinced than by looking at the stats and thinking OMG!! He scored 16 goals, he is DA MAN!!! Actually I think the goals will come back with Owen anyway, what will Martins contribution be then?

 

Considering Martins' attributes, he plays a lot deeper than he should. A player with his pace, strength and dribbling abilities should be playing off the shoulder of the last defender while the midfielders slip in through balls or dink cheeky passes over the top, or the wingers get in behind the full back and square it to him. It's true he doesn't get in the box enough and he could work the flanks Henry-style a bit better.

 

But when was the last time you saw our wingers or midfielders playing these sorts of balls? Yesterday we never looked like creating let alone scoring. N'Zogbia and Dyer are the only players who beat the full backs, occasionally Milner too. Yet Zoggy and Milner were on the bench and Dyer was up front. Solano had a great spell around Christmas but he's had a long hard season and clearly needs a rest. Duff is best when running at defenders at pace but I can't remember the last time he did this.

 

Truth is if Martins wants the ball he has to drop deep. You could argue that strikers should be patient and always stay up front but I'm sceptical whether he'd have had a touch of the ball all game if he had. I saw him yesterday try to get up front on a few occasions and beat the offside trap, but someone launched a long ball straight to the centre back while Martins tried desperately to outjump them. This was happening all game. Is it any surprise that the only times he gets the ball to his feet are when he retreats towards the halfway line and makes himself available for the simple pass?

 

I honestly believe Michael Owen wouldn't have made a jot of difference to yesterday's performance or indeed any of our recent few games and for me that's the scariest thing about it. He'd have been running around to totally overcooked passes, challenging for high balls and dropping deep in a desperate attempt to somehow get involved in play. One player isn't going to change things, that's wishful thinking.

 

The timing of this thread is bound to affect the responses. Perhaps I should set up a similar thread after Martins bags a few and Crouch is having a dry spell? It's not a good time to get objective responses from people.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

Martins : 22

Crouch: 32

 

10 Years difference, I wonder who will be the better player in 10 years? Peter "I score goals against Jamaica" Crouch or Obafemi "I am the best African player of the last 2 centuries" Martins?

[Parky]

Martins : 22

Crouch: 32

 

10 Years difference, I wonder who will be the better player in 10 years? Peter "I score goals against Jamaica" Crouch or Obafemi "I am the best African player of the last 2 centuries" Martins?

 

mackems.gif

[BottledDog]

Martins : 22

Crouch: 32

 

10 Years difference, I wonder who will be the better player in 10 years? Peter "I score goals against Jamaica" Crouch or Obafemi "I am the best African player of the last 2 centuries" Martins?

 

Ye what?

[Guest BooBoo]

Martins : 22

Crouch: 32

 

10 Years difference, I wonder who will be the better player in 10 years? Peter "I score goals against Jamaica" Crouch or Obafemi "I am the best African player of the last 2 centuries" Martins?

 

<Rambling nonsense>

[Cajun]

AS9 failing to be funny shocker

 

[Guest Rafa]

This is the sort of commentry we should have in this country, with Crouch, you get songs to go with the goals!

 

Snipped: No linking to copyright Premiership footage please - HTT

[Guest Knightrider]

There is no real space for Martins to run into, and when he goes wide to look for the ball, the back-up and the numbers in the box leave a lot to be desired, he does drop deep but that's a good sign, shows a willingness to get on the ball and try to influence things instead of standing up top hands on hip just waiting for things to happen. Anyway we are a complete mess all over the pitch, it will be hard for any players' game at Newcastle to shine through on a consistent basis.

[Guest Rafa]

awww you spoilsport    All other forums link to 'em no bother. Shame you can't link to em here, you are missing out  8)

[biggs]

we have a talent at nufc to destroy players in one way or another cannot really put my finger on it why .

[Northern Monkey]

There is no real space for Martins to run into, and when he goes wide to look for the ball, the back-up and the numbers in the box leave a lot to be desired, he does drop deep but that's a good sign, shows a willingness to get on the ball and try to influence things instead of standing up top hands on hip just waiting for things to happen. Anyway we are a complete mess all over the pitch, it will be hard for any players' game at Newcastle to shine through on a consistent basis.

 

When there IS space, he often is not good enough to see/exploit it.

 

Not saying he's shite - he's a lot better than some "players" a number of our so called fans don't mind having at the club, but he needs more coaching than we can currently give him.

[Baggio]

There is no real space for Martins to run into, and when he goes wide to look for the ball, the back-up and the numbers in the box leave a lot to be desired, he does drop deep but that's a good sign, shows a willingness to get on the ball and try to influence things instead of standing up top hands on hip just waiting for things to happen. Anyway we are a complete mess all over the pitch, it will be hard for any players' game at Newcastle to shine through on a consistent basis.

 

When there IS space, he often is not good enough to see/exploit it.

 

Not saying he's s**** - he's a lot better than some "players" a number of our so called fans don't mind having at the club, but he needs more coaching than we can currently give him.

 

I'm sure Terry Mac and Clarkie will coach it into him.