Jose Mourinho - The Great Pretender

[Cajun]

Couldn't be arsed to read through this thread so its probably been mentioned but ManU haven't exactly built their team on a shoestring budget.

 

It's their own money though; they earnt it.

 

I am talking about Mourinho's ability more than where the money came from.

 

People talk about it being a failure if Jose doesn't win the title this year but its not is if Man U are an average team with an average manager. Just because Chelsea have spent a lot of money it doesn't gaurantee anything and its not as if Man U have done a Bolton.

[ohmelads]

Why is Mourinho not allowed to build a team?  How can someone be expected to "build" a team in such a short time?  Besides, didn't do too badly eh?  But mest be trebles all round.  Why must he win everything, each year, just because he has more money than everyone else?  Was this expected of Man U a decade ago?  Were people then writing off Ferguson's prior acheivements because he only managed to qualify for the UEFA cup one year?  That is, despite having spent considerable amounts of money the seasons in and around that? 

 

I'm not trying to be ridiculous, but when you write off his Porto acheivements due to luck, then ignore the fact Man U were extremely luck themselves to win their one and only CL, and still hold Fergie up (I'm not knocking him, I'm using your standards on him, although you're choosing to apply them only to Mourinho), I think that's harsh.

 

Mourinho has to try and strike a balance.  Does he buy the best players in every position?  Well no, he said he wouldn't at the start, he wanted to build a team.  However, it steamrollered everyone, he lifted the bar, and the rest have simply caught up.  Every manager has a blip season, the very best of them.  Far too much is made of the money, it's just not as simple as that.

 

Perhaps I was harsh on his Porto achievement. But that was the basis on which he got this job, he inherited an excellent squad which finished 2nd and reached the Champions League semi-finals and he's had a ton of money since, so that makes him difficult to judge and leads me to suggest his achievements, while good, are not the amazing feat they're made out to be.

 

He's won two leagues and will probably lose this one. I think we can all agree that next season will reveal a lot as I don't see him getting outrageous funds this time around while those around him will enjoy bigger transfer budgets. If he wins it again you've got to hand it to him, but if he loses it then you'd have to suggest there are people who can do a better job.

 

I actually don't hate Mourinho as much as I used to when he first came over to England. He's a good defensive tactician but I think he (and Benitez) could take a leaf out of Ferguson and Wenger's books if they want to dominate this league consistently. I just think Mourinho's a bit overrated. I doubt we'll ever know how he'd cope in England without his fortunes, so it's all conjecture.

[Dave]

Couldn't be arsed to read through this thread so its probably been mentioned but ManU haven't exactly built their team on a shoestring budget.

 

It's their own money though; they earnt it.

 

I am talking about Mourinho's ability more than where the money came from.

 

People talk about it being a failure if Jose doesn't win the title this year but its not is if Man U are an average team with an average manager. Just because Chelsea have spent a lot of money it doesn't gaurantee anything and its not as if Man U have done a Bolton.

 

Touché. Read your post a bit wrong.

[Taylor Swift]

Why is Mourinho not allowed to build a team?  How can someone be expected to "build" a team in such a short time?  Besides, didn't do too badly eh?  But mest be trebles all round.  Why must he win everything, each year, just because he has more money than everyone else?  Was this expected of Man U a decade ago?  Were people then writing off Ferguson's prior acheivements because he only managed to qualify for the UEFA cup one year?  That is, despite having spent considerable amounts of money the seasons in and around that? 

 

I'm not trying to be ridiculous, but when you write off his Porto acheivements due to luck, then ignore the fact Man U were extremely luck themselves to win their one and only CL, and still hold Fergie up (I'm not knocking him, I'm using your standards on him, although you're choosing to apply them only to Mourinho), I think that's harsh.

 

Mourinho has to try and strike a balance.  Does he buy the best players in every position?  Well no, he said he wouldn't at the start, he wanted to build a team.  However, it steamrollered everyone, he lifted the bar, and the rest have simply caught up.  Every manager has a blip season, the very best of them.  Far too much is made of the money, it's just not as simple as that.

 

Perhaps I was harsh on his Porto achievement. But that was the basis on which he got this job, he inherited an excellent squad which finished 2nd and reached the Champions League semi-finals and he's had a ton of money since, so that makes him difficult to judge and leads me to suggest his achievements, while good, are not the amazing feat they're made out to be.

 

He's won two leagues and will probably lose this one. I think we can all agree that next season will reveal a lot as I don't see him getting outrageous funds this time around while those around him will enjoy bigger transfer budgets. If he wins it again you've got to hand it to him, but if he loses it then you'd have to suggest there are people who can do a better job.

 

I actually don't hate Mourinho as much as I used to when he first came over to England. He's a good defensive tactician but I think he (and Benitez) could take a leaf out of Ferguson and Wenger's books if they want to dominate this league consistently. I just think Mourinho's a bit overrated. I doubt we'll ever know how he'd cope in England without his fortunes, so it's all conjecture.

 

Of course, he could quit Chelsea and apply for Roeder's job

 

Imo, he's a great manager. Wherever he goes next, he'll probably achieve success, with or without money.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

Chelsea will collapse next year and Jose will be crying by Christmas about not being given any money and he'll be gone by the summer

[abcdefg]

Good call Dave, back home, radio on. I had to try.

[ohmelads]

Still hoping Chelsea push Man Utd to the wire in the title race. 3 points in it now with Man Utd kicking off in 10 mins. It would be hilarious to see Chelsea pip them to it.

[The College Dropout]

His success with Porto was phenomenal. It's hard to say two European cup wins where flukey.....although they werefortunate to beat Celtic & Man United. the Porto squad he built were very good.

 

 

i'd agree that at Chelsea all he seems to have done is give them jammy bastardism.

[The College Dropout]

Still hoping Chelsea push Man Utd to the wire in the title race. 3 points in it now with Man Utd kicking off in 10 mins. It would be hilarious to see Chelsea pip them to it.

 

No. It really wouldn't. I can't see how any "neutral" would want Chelsea to continue their dominance over English football.

[Raconteur]

Still hoping Chelsea push Man Utd to the wire in the title race. 3 points in it now with Man Utd kicking off in 10 mins. It would be hilarious to see Chelsea pip them to it.

 

No. It really wouldn't. I can't see how any "neutral" would want Chelsea to continue their dominance over English football.

 

My thughts exactly - I despise Man U, but fucking loathe Chelsea, they're like a foul taste in the mouth you can't get rid of...

 

[Guest NSMagpie]

A fortune has been spent at Newcastle, we're still s***. Any one of you would love him to manage here, the only vague hope is that he's so arrogant he'd want to prove someone could make us successful.

 

Right on the spot!

 

Let's hope miracle happens, someday.

[Guest Knightrider]

 

Mourinho is clearly a top manager whatever way you look at it, to suggest otherwise is extremely silly, but then looking at who started the thread...

[DJ_NUFC]

This is the stupidest fucking thread ever and I can't believe people are actually entertaining this notion.

 

It seems you can post about anything on here these days and you'll find at least one crackhead agreeing with you.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

This is the stupidest fucking thread ever and I can't believe people are actually entertaining this notion.

 

It seems you can post about anything on here these days and you'll find at least one crackhead agreeing with you.

 

now if I went and looked I wouldn't find an OMFG were gonna get religated post from you would I?

[Taylor Swift]

After today, Chelsea's back in it tbh. If they win the title Mourinho's a legend. No denying that.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

 

Mourinho is clearly a top manager whatever way you look at it, to suggest otherwise is extremely silly, but then looking at who started the thread...

 

strangely sweeping and generalising statement, looking at the one who posted it

 

If you care to examine the thread closely, I wasn't saying he was shite, I was saying he hasn't done anything at Chelsea that couldn't have been achieved by any other half decent motivator / confidence builder given the positiion he has been presented with

 

Try and tell me why he is 'special', if you can.

[DJ_NUFC]

This is the stupidest fucking thread ever and I can't believe people are actually entertaining this notion.

 

It seems you can post about anything on here these days and you'll find at least one crackhead agreeing with you.

 

now if I went and looked I wouldn't find an OMFG were gonna get religated post from you would I?

 

Haha... no, Sir, you wouldn't. Either way, it wasn't a personal snide on you or your opinions, but Mourinho's Mourinho. Some have put your general behaviour on these boards down as trolling but I think it's a cut above that, it's more reactionary. And I don't believe in posting such tripe unless given bait ... so why are you giving me some now?

 

Footie's about results, and Jose has proved that he can more than hack it at the top level of professional football with his work, and success, at Porto. Every single team gets lucky when they win fucking trophies, we just don't know this coz we haven't won any yet. Watch any team's run throughout a successful tournament and there'd be some games where they'd look beaten, get a lucky break and go on to the next round. This is not only football, this is life. People seem to want "successful" managers to win each game 5-0, and I bet you, if that were to happen, they'd still call him a fluke saying he never had real opposition in front of him.

 

Jose's a fucking genius, like it or not. Sure he had tonnes of monies to work with at Chelsea, but he made it work. Real Madrid went through their whole Galactico phase winning fuck all post-Becks.

 

I can see why people would think he's not much of a manager because of the luxuries he's had at Chelsea, but the man won five trophies, domestic and European, with fuckin' Porto. Give credit where it's due.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

Considering this thread was about Mourinho's performance at Chelsea, I couldn't give two fucks what he's done at Porto

 

If I say Wenger's shit, are people gonna start talking about Monaco? Or Aberdeen with Fergie? I don't think so.

[Guest NSMagpie]

Try and tell me why he is 'special', if you can.

 

Sir Vic, may I try, while master HTT is absent, please?

[Taylor Swift]

seriously, what the fuck has he done, apart from inspire confidence?

 

That was your question to begin the thread. Then you waffled on about his performance at Chelsea. So what the fuck has he done you ask? He's won the UEFA Cup, the Champions League and a couple of league titles at Porto. That is an acceptable answer to your question, since it was so fucking open-ended, vague and followed up with a rant about his performance at Chelsea, cleverly disregarding his achievements at other clubs.

 

After this other achievements, he then joined Chelsea, whom since then have won their first league title in 50 years, then repeated the win and are now within shouting distance of a 3rd straight league title. That's what he's done.

[Guest NSMagpie]

I'll take Sir Vic's silence as approval.

 

Sir Vic, any coach that wins four league titles in a row, changing country afetr the first two, paired with back to back two European cups (UEFA and CL) with underdogs Porto are, is an outstanding manager.

 

And he did it in style, being an underdog himself in England. Portuguese cup, and English League Cups are not worth mentioning, but let's just add it to his tally.

 

If I say Wenger's s***, are people gonna start talking about Monaco? Or Aberdeen with Fergie? I don't think so.

 

Why not? If we are talking about why Mourinho is a world class coach, then his entire career is important. Especially having in mind he won two European trophies while in Portugal.

[tmonkey]

Hes been undermined this season. Abramovich, Arnesen, whoever - hes not a happy chappy, a few key decisions were forced upon him (probably Shevchenko, already stated the sale of Gallas and Huth, etc), and it seems like the side he currently has is not entirely "his" team like it was in previous seasons, more of one hes having to work with. Point being, despite the money and players hes had at his disposal, its understandable that his team are underperforming for the resources hes spent - if hes not able to build the team acording to his own plans, then it cant be a suprise if hes not achieving the targets expected of him. Thats why most top managers will walk if theyre undermined (eg Benitez and Valencia).

 

Hes a top manager, but a coach who produces defensive teams, teams that look to win the game without any concern as to entertainment value. His teams will happily destroy a game of football if it means winning, his Porto side were like that and his Chelsea team play that way. In that sense, hes not a great manager because hes doing whats easier - boring, defensive football. That is why his Chelsea side are nowhere near as good as what they should be given the money theyve spent and the attacking players at their disposal, and why theyve had no joy in the CL because theyve come up against teams as good defensively as them but with more attacking abilities/instincts. But as mentioned, its the results that matter the most, and hes clearly top class when it comes to that for the most part.

[Stevie]

seriously, what the f*** has he done, apart from inspire confidence?

 

he inherited the spine of a good team, he's had the luxury of signing anyone he wants, and more importantly he hasn't suffered for bad buys, or even had to sell them (Duff, SWP), he needs no special skill to persuade anybody to sign, the young buy's he has made have been found out (Mikel), he came out of the Cole saga smelling of roses, somehow making Arsenal the villain, he's had no real competition - the first time a team has got their act together in the Prem he's been found wanting, the team itself needs no tactical direction, these players are good enough to know how to play to a system and grind out results, the first time he's had to adapt to injuries he's moanded like a c*** and been found wanting again, the first time he's had to accomodate players that don't fit the's found wanting

 

All he is a confidence and self belief mechanism for a self sufficient team with no money limits, with along with having the negative aspects of being an arrogant cock and ingracious in defeat. You could just aswell give Big Ron that job, he'd do just aswell.

 

 

 

 

You just keep getting better and better, another classic from the internets most clueless cunt.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

seriously, what the f*** has he done, apart from inspire confidence?

 

he inherited the spine of a good team, he's had the luxury of signing anyone he wants, and more importantly he hasn't suffered for bad buys, or even had to sell them (Duff, SWP), he needs no special skill to persuade anybody to sign, the young buy's he has made have been found out (Mikel), he came out of the Cole saga smelling of roses, somehow making Arsenal the villain, he's had no real competition - the first time a team has got their act together in the Prem he's been found wanting, the team itself needs no tactical direction, these players are good enough to know how to play to a system and grind out results, the first time he's had to adapt to injuries he's moanded like a c*** and been found wanting again, the first time he's had to accomodate players that don't fit the's found wanting

 

All he is a confidence and self belief mechanism for a self sufficient team with no money limits, with along with having the negative aspects of being an arrogant cock and ingracious in defeat. You could just aswell give Big Ron that job, he'd do just aswell.

 

 

 

 

You just keep getting better and better, another classic from the internets most clueless cunt.

 

wouldn't be surprised if the point of the post eluded your intellectual abilities steve. Don't feel bad if you feel everyone else is ahead of you in the class, you can't help it tbh

[Stevie]

seriously, what the f*** has he done, apart from inspire confidence?

 

he inherited the spine of a good team, he's had the luxury of signing anyone he wants, and more importantly he hasn't suffered for bad buys, or even had to sell them (Duff, SWP), he needs no special skill to persuade anybody to sign, the young buy's he has made have been found out (Mikel), he came out of the Cole saga smelling of roses, somehow making Arsenal the villain, he's had no real competition - the first time a team has got their act together in the Prem he's been found wanting, the team itself needs no tactical direction, these players are good enough to know how to play to a system and grind out results, the first time he's had to adapt to injuries he's moanded like a c*** and been found wanting again, the first time he's had to accomodate players that don't fit the's found wanting

 

All he is a confidence and self belief mechanism for a self sufficient team with no money limits, with along with having the negative aspects of being an arrogant cock and ingracious in defeat. You could just aswell give Big Ron that job, he'd do just aswell.

 

 

 

 

You just keep getting better and better, another classic from the internets most clueless c***.

 

wouldn't be surprised if the point of the post eluded your intellectual abilities steve. Don't feel bad if you feel everyone else is ahead of you in the class, you can't help it tbh

Oh dear