Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I thought everyone hated - along with Sky and general commercialisation of the game - the overriding feeling that fans just can't relate to the players these days? Surely a league with masses of foreign players (read mercenaries) contributes largely to this. Very good point Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 If anything, foreign players are much more professional than your young English player like Reo Coker, Ferdinand, Dyer, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I thought everyone hated - along with Sky and general commercialisation of the game - the overriding feeling that fans just can't relate to the players these days? Surely a league with masses of foreign players (read mercenaries) contributes largely to this. Yeah, because no english players are mercenaries tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Cole, Terry and Lampard learnt their trade and got games at West Ham that is my point. People aren't really paying attention. There are 4 non-Germans in the German national side starting line-up. Any gueses? Terry never played for West Ham, nor did he come through the ranks there. If you pick Joe Cole, fair enough. If you pick Ashley Cole, he came through West Ham. I thought your point in the previous post was that the players were coming through at small teams? Quite a few ManU players in there as well... You're right about Terry actually....I'm willing to wage that PL clubs the top 6/7 will no longer develop young English players..Arsenal are a disgrace. Is this the same Arsenal that splashed up to £12m on a 17yr old ENGLISH player? Don't think they'll bother developing him? If the English players are good enough I'm sure Wenger will try to sign them, but if they're going to cost 10x as much as the French equivalents why would he sign them? They've also got Hoyte coming through who looks promising, and a couple of kids out on loan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I thought everyone hated - along with Sky and general commercialisation of the game - the overriding feeling that fans just can't relate to the players these days? Surely a league with masses of foreign players (read mercenaries) contributes largely to this. Very good point Dave. Would you sooner a young player relate to a Bergkamp, Zola or Solano...or a Reo-Coker, Pennant or Dyer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Implying that Man Utd aren't developing home-grown talent makes you look like a spaz tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I thought everyone hated - along with Sky and general commercialisation of the game - the overriding feeling that fans just can't relate to the players these days? Surely a league with masses of foreign players (read mercenaries) contributes largely to this. Maybe, but I would say the massive wages and lifestyle the players live (especially the best English players, who tend to be among the best paid) is more likely to mean your average fan can't relate to the players. There are very few in the game who aren't mercenaries to some extent - generally one club players. But even now JT is on £120k, and I'd be surprised if Stevie G and Carra are much below £100k. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I thought everyone hated - along with Sky and general commercialisation of the game - the overriding feeling that fans just can't relate to the players these days? Surely a league with masses of foreign players (read mercenaries) contributes largely to this. Give me a team of 11 good foreigners over 11 mediocre Englishmen any day of the week. Fans can't relate to players because of their wages and their lifestyle, the language they speak makes no difference at all. It would literally make no difference to me, as I can't remember the last time I read a player interview, or watched SSN to see what one of our players has to say - I know they've got fuck all of interest to say, so they may as well say it in a foreign language for all I care. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I thought everyone hated - along with Sky and general commercialisation of the game - the overriding feeling that fans just can't relate to the players these days? Surely a league with masses of foreign players (read mercenaries) contributes largely to this. Yeah, because no english players are mercenaries tbh Yeah, because that's what I said. The mercenaries comment was tongue-in-cheek, but many fans do fall back on it when things don't go well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Cole, Terry and Lampard learnt their trade and got games at West Ham that is my point. People aren't really paying attention. There are 4 non-Germans in the German national side starting line-up. Any gueses? Terry never played for West Ham, nor did he come through the ranks there. If you pick Joe Cole, fair enough. If you pick Ashley Cole, he came through West Ham. I thought your point in the previous post was that the players were coming through at small teams? Quite a few ManU players in there as well... You're right about Terry actually....I'm willing to wage that PL clubs the top 6/7 will no longer develop young English players..Arsenal are a disgrace. Is this the same Arsenal that splashed up to £12m on a 17yr old ENGLISH player? Don't think they'll bother developing him? If the English players are good enough I'm sure Wenger will try to sign them, but if they're going to cost 10x as much as the French equivalents why would he sign them? They've also got Hoyte coming through who looks promising, and a couple of kids out on loan. How much have they spent on foreign players by comparison....? ...and part of my argument is that teams often hoover up sub-standard foreigners to fill gaps instead of giving homegrown players a chance...Pompey anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Cole, Terry and Lampard learnt their trade and got games at West Ham that is my point. People aren't really paying attention. There are 4 non-Germans in the German national side starting line-up. Any gueses? Terry never played for West Ham, nor did he come through the ranks there. If you pick Joe Cole, fair enough. If you pick Ashley Cole, he came through West Ham. I thought your point in the previous post was that the players were coming through at small teams? Quite a few ManU players in there as well... You're right about Terry actually....I'm willing to wage that PL clubs the top 6/7 will no longer develop young English players..Arsenal are a disgrace. Is this the same Arsenal that splashed up to £12m on a 17yr old ENGLISH player? Don't think they'll bother developing him? If the English players are good enough I'm sure Wenger will try to sign them, but if they're going to cost 10x as much as the French equivalents why would he sign them? They've also got Hoyte coming through who looks promising, and a couple of kids out on loan. How much have they spent on foreign players by comparison....? Forget nationalities Parky. He spends money on what he thinks are GOOD players at reasonable prices. It's not like he's overlooking English talent out of spite, it's because they either aren't good enough, or cost too much. He's doing his job for Arsenal Football Club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I think the problems are deeper Parky - you talk about Arsenal not developing English players, but you have to go further back... Where Arsenal excel is getting the 15-18 year olds and developing them into Premiership players. But the problem is that the very best kids in this age group aren't English. I couldn't speculate as to why, but if you answer that question then you're getting to the root of the problem. The real problem with that is that the kids who aren't the "very best" go down the pecking order, subsequently don't get the development from the very best coaches (who are naturally at the very best clubs) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Football and part of the magic is about being able to relate and identity and a sense of belonging not a team full of Maradingo's chasing a cash rainbow.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I remember Keegan on some BBC documentary by Hansen when he was England manager talking about foreign players in the game, and he said when he was at Newcastle, he wanted to sign a young right-back from Swindon who'd not even been capped at Under 21 level and was quoted £1.5m for him, so opted for Hottiger at a 3rd of the price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Football and part of the magic is about being able to relate and identity and a sense of belonging not a team full of Maradingo's chasing a cash rainbow.... Are you posting in sepia? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I think the problems are deeper Parky - you talk about Arsenal not developing English players, but you have to go further back... Where Arsenal excel is getting the 15-18 year olds and developing them into Premiership players. But the problem is that the very best kids in this age group aren't English. I couldn't speculate as to why, but if you answer that question then you're getting to the root of the problem. The real problem with that is that the kids who aren't the "very best" go down the pecking order, subsequently don't get the development from the very best coaches (who are naturally at the very best clubs) Good point. France didn't piss about they started a national academy years ago when they saw this problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Football and part of the magic is about being able to relate and identity and a sense of belonging not a team full of Maradingo's chasing a cash rainbow.... Are you posting in sepia? Deep down Gemma you know I'm right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Cole, Terry and Lampard learnt their trade and got games at West Ham that is my point. People aren't really paying attention. There are 4 non-Germans in the German national side starting line-up. Any gueses? Terry never played for West Ham, nor did he come through the ranks there. If you pick Joe Cole, fair enough. If you pick Ashley Cole, he came through West Ham. I thought your point in the previous post was that the players were coming through at small teams? Quite a few ManU players in there as well... You're right about Terry actually....I'm willing to wage that PL clubs the top 6/7 will no longer develop young English players..Arsenal are a disgrace. Is this the same Arsenal that splashed up to £12m on a 17yr old ENGLISH player? Don't think they'll bother developing him? If the English players are good enough I'm sure Wenger will try to sign them, but if they're going to cost 10x as much as the French equivalents why would he sign them? They've also got Hoyte coming through who looks promising, and a couple of kids out on loan. How much have they spent on foreign players by comparison....? ...and part of my argument is that teams often hoover up sub-standard foreigners to fill gaps instead of giving homegrown players a chance...Pompey anyone? More of an indicment on how over-priced English players are Ashley Young for £10m ffffffffffffffffffffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Football and part of the magic is about being able to relate and identity and a sense of belonging not a team full of Maradingo's chasing a cash rainbow.... Are you posting in sepia? Deep down Gemma you know I'm right. Deep down, I know you're on a wind-up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Cole, Terry and Lampard learnt their trade and got games at West Ham that is my point. People aren't really paying attention. There are 4 non-Germans in the German national side starting line-up. Any gueses? Terry never played for West Ham, nor did he come through the ranks there. If you pick Joe Cole, fair enough. If you pick Ashley Cole, he came through West Ham. I thought your point in the previous post was that the players were coming through at small teams? Quite a few ManU players in there as well... You're right about Terry actually....I'm willing to wage that PL clubs the top 6/7 will no longer develop young English players..Arsenal are a disgrace. Yeah I'd be fucking gutted if we developed the likes of Fabregas and Diaby as opposed to Matty fucking Pattison The South African Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I wouldn't even mind if we tried to make it look right....Barca bought Messi over when he was 14 I think and gave him dual natiionality.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Yeah I'd be f****** gutted if we developed the likes of Fabregas and Diaby as opposed to Matty f****** Pattison The South African That was my point? Diaby and Fabregas aren't English? Pattison isn't English? See? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I wouldn't even mind if we tried to make it look right....Barca bought Messi over when he was 14 I think and gave him dual natiionality.... So it's ok to bring in foreigners if we give them dual nationality? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 ...and part of my argument is that teams often hoover up sub-standard foreigners to fill gaps instead of giving homegrown players a chance...Pompey anyone? How many English players of comparable quality to the foreigners they have do you think Pompey could have brought in for the same overall cost? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I wouldn't even mind if we tried to make it look right....Barca bought Messi over when he was 14 I think and gave him dual natiionality.... Ironically England's cricket team have been doing this for decades with little or nothing to show for it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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