Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Or do you want to return to the days where Man Utd would get stuffed 4-0 in Europe and get knocked out of Europe by crap teams like Gothenburg because duffers like Walsh, Pilkington, Cooke, Thornley, McKee, etc. had to play at times instead of Keane, Irwin, Schmeichel... This isn't the issue...It is plain wrong that Arsenal fields and continues to field sides with no English players..It's bad for the game on just about every level. We dominated Euro for a decade with predominantly English players...Liverpool, Forest, Villa... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 If English players are better than the foreign ones, they'll play. Look at the likes of Carragher, Terry, Gerrard, Cole, Lampard, etc. Do you see the irony in those names 3 came through a small club (WHam) youth system. Young English players can't develop cause they can't break into first teams populated from around Europe. It's wrong simple as that. EU beuracracy gone mad. Ummm....didn't they come through the ranks at Liverpool, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and West Ham respectively? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Or do you want to return to the days where Man Utd would get stuffed 4-0 in Europe and get knocked out of Europe by crap teams like Gothenburg because duffers like Walsh, Pilkington, Cooke, Thornley, McKee, etc. had to play at times instead of Keane, Irwin, Schmeichel... This isn't the issue...It is plain wrong that Arsenal fields and continues to field sides with no English players..It's bad for the game on just about every level. We dominated Euro for a decade with predominantly English players...Liverpool, Forest, Villa... Surely the main concern is for the England team... Which is now better than it was in the 80s - surely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Exactly. From 1970 to 1990, England did f*ck all in major tournaments. Since 1996, around the time the 3 foreigners rule got changed, England have improved drastically in tournaments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Cole, Terry and Lampard learnt their trade and got games at West Ham that is my point. People aren't really paying attention. There are 4 non-Germans in the German national side starting line-up. Any gueses? Dozens of La Liga players with Spanish passports who will qualify for Spain are Argentinians... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Exactly. From 1970 to 1990, England did f*ck all in major tournaments. Since 1996, around the time the 3 foreigners rule got changed, England have improved drastically in tournaments. Not talking about 3 foriegners talking about fielding 3 English players...The rest can be foriegners..Is that too much to ask? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 If the English players aren't good enough then it's tough tits tbh. If we could find 11 foreigners better than our current first 11 (and I'm fucking sure we could!), I'd want them in regardless of the effect that has on the English national team or whatever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Cole, Terry and Lampard learnt their trade and got games at West Ham that is my point. People aren't really paying attention. There are 4 non-Germans in the German national side starting line-up. Any gueses? Dozens of La Liga players with Spanish passports who will qualify for Spain are Argentinians... Theres a couple of Poles, Klose and Podolski. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Really don't understand why teams should field inferior players in an attempt to improve a mediocre national team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Cole, Terry and Lampard learnt their trade and got games at West Ham that is my point. People aren't really paying attention. There are 4 non-Germans in the German national side starting line-up. Any gueses? Terry never played for West Ham, nor did he come through the ranks there. If you pick Joe Cole, fair enough. If you pick Ashley Cole, he came through Arsenal. I thought your point in the previous post was that the players were coming through at small teams? Quite a few ManU players in there as well... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 If the English players aren't good enough then it's tough tits tbh. If we could find 11 foreigners better than our current first 11 (and I'm fucking sure we could!), I'd want them in regardless of the effect that has on the English national team or whatever. How can the English players be good enough if they never get a game....? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 But seriously though, so what if Arsenal don't have 3 English players? The other top clubs have at least 3 (Cole, Terry & Lampard, Carragher, Gerrard & Crouch, Rooney, Carrick & Ferdinand). If Arsenal don't want to name 3, or don't have 3 good enough for selection, that's their choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Or do you want to return to the days where Man Utd would get stuffed 4-0 in Europe and get knocked out of Europe by crap teams like Gothenburg because duffers like Walsh, Pilkington, Cooke, Thornley, McKee, etc. had to play at times instead of Keane, Irwin, Schmeichel... This isn't the issue...It is plain wrong that Arsenal fields and continues to field sides with no English players..It's bad for the game on just about every level. We dominated Euro for a decade with predominantly English players...Liverpool, Forest, Villa... Surely the main concern is for the England team... Which is now better than it was in the 80s - surely? How is the England team better than it was in the 80s? I'd say the situation is roughly the same. There's no doubt though, unless there is a limit on foreign players, things will get worse for the national team. Look at the situation now re goalkeepers - we struggle to identify any at the top level we can actually pick from. It'll be like that in most outfield positions soon enough, too. What makes me laugh about Arsenal is that Wenger spouted off earlier in the season how foreign ownership of English clubs is wrong, and how it dilutes the "Englishness" of the clubs, characteristically chosing not to "see" the irony of this from a man who regularly fields 11 foreigners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Cole, Terry and Lampard learnt their trade and got games at West Ham that is my point. People aren't really paying attention. There are 4 non-Germans in the German national side starting line-up. Any gueses? Dozens of La Liga players with Spanish passports who will qualify for Spain are Argentinians... Theres a couple of Poles, Klose and Podolski. Neuville Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Cole, Terry and Lampard learnt their trade and got games at West Ham that is my point. People aren't really paying attention. There are 4 non-Germans in the German national side starting line-up. Any gueses? Terry never played for West Ham, nor did he come through the ranks there. If you pick Joe Cole, fair enough. If you pick Ashley Cole, he came through West Ham. I thought your point in the previous post was that the players were coming through at small teams? Quite a few ManU players in there as well... You're right about Terry actually....I'm willing to wage that PL clubs the top 6/7 will no longer develop young English players..Arsenal are a disgrace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 If the English players aren't good enough then it's tough tits tbh. If we could find 11 foreigners better than our current first 11 (and I'm f****** sure we could!), I'd want them in regardless of the effect that has on the English national team or whatever. How can the English players be good enough if they never get a game....? Why should they get a game if they aren't good enough? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Cole, Terry and Lampard learnt their trade and got games at West Ham that is my point. People aren't really paying attention. There are 4 non-Germans in the German national side starting line-up. Any gueses? Dozens of La Liga players with Spanish passports who will qualify for Spain are Argentinians... Theres a couple of Poles, Klose and Podolski. Neuville Podolski, Metzelder... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 If the English players aren't good enough then it's tough tits tbh. If we could find 11 foreigners better than our current first 11 (and I'm f****** sure we could!), I'd want them in regardless of the effect that has on the English national team or whatever. How can the English players be good enough if they never get a game....? Why should they get a game if they aren't good enough? How do you know they're not good enough if they can't get games? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Cole, Terry and Lampard learnt their trade and got games at West Ham that is my point. People aren't really paying attention. There are 4 non-Germans in the German national side starting line-up. Any gueses? Terry never played for West Ham, nor did he come through the ranks there. If you pick Joe Cole, fair enough. If you pick Ashley Cole, he came through West Ham. I thought your point in the previous post was that the players were coming through at small teams? Quite a few ManU players in there as well... You're right about Terry actually....I'm willing to wage that PL clubs the top 6/7 will no longer develop young English players..Arsenal are a disgrace. Yeah I'd be fucking gutted if we developed the likes of Fabregas and Diaby as opposed to Matty fucking Pattison Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 But seriously though, so what if Arsenal don't have 3 English players? The other top clubs have at least 3 (Cole, Terry & Lampard, Carragher, Gerrard & Crouch, Rooney, Carrick & Ferdinand). If Arsenal don't want to name 3, or don't have 3 good enough for selection, that's their choice. The problem is that the "pool" of eligible English players is getting smaller. You could also argue that players like Lampard, Crouch, Rooney in particular look like top quality players in the premiership largely due to their being surrounded by quality, largely foreign, players. When you see them play for England, they don't look such high quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Because if they were good enough, they'd get games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 If the English players aren't good enough then it's tough tits tbh. If we could find 11 foreigners better than our current first 11 (and I'm f****** sure we could!), I'd want them in regardless of the effect that has on the English national team or whatever. How can the English players be good enough if they never get a game....? Why should they get a game if they aren't good enough? How do you know they're not good enough if they can't get games? I trust a managers judgment (roeder excluded) over some mong on the internet tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Because if they were good enough, they'd get games. What happens is they have to move on often to lower league clubs and later some come back..... It is the duty of English clubs to develop the game in the community and show there is a path for homegrown talent. I'm right and no amount of mumbo-jumbo can prove otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Or do you want to return to the days where Man Utd would get stuffed 4-0 in Europe and get knocked out of Europe by crap teams like Gothenburg because duffers like Walsh, Pilkington, Cooke, Thornley, McKee, etc. had to play at times instead of Keane, Irwin, Schmeichel... This isn't the issue...It is plain wrong that Arsenal fields and continues to field sides with no English players..It's bad for the game on just about every level. We dominated Euro for a decade with predominantly English players...Liverpool, Forest, Villa... Surely the main concern is for the England team... Which is now better than it was in the 80s - surely? How is the England team better than it was in the 80s? I'd say the situation is roughly the same. Last two WCs - QF. 80s - 82 Round 2, 86 QF Not a huge difference there, but slightly in favour of recent history. Last two ECs - QF, Round 1 L80s - 80 - Round 1, 84 - DNQ, 88- Round 1 I'd say it's fair to conclude from that that our national team is now stronger than it was in the 80s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I thought everyone hated - along with Sky and general commercialisation of the game - the overriding feeling that fans just can't relate to the players these days? Surely a league with masses of foreign players (read mercenaries) contributes largely to this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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