Rich Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Should add that having a minimum requirement of English players in a matchday squad would definitely give clubs more reason/incentive to get involved more in development from the earliest of ages, which could perhaps only be a good thing for youth football and the future of the national team. It tends to be dog-eat-dog and so in the short-term a solution like this one could have it's problems, but they may well get ironed out down the line when more and more money has been put into academies and youth development, in order to make sure that the English players in squads are good enough to actually play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I love it when this board goes into denial. No-one is even prepared to admit there is a problem. No one gives two hoots that the roots and identity of the game is being erased.....Shame on you. Why bother calling it the Euro Champions league? The rate the Italians and Spanish are giving passports to South Americans might just as well call it Libdetores Cup or whatever.... Why call it the PL its just a lie....Call it the French v Russian mafia. Hyperbole much? For a socialist you're quite the nationalist!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I'm really in the middle on this one. Good arguments from both sides. It does seem absurd that a team called Arsenal from London doesn't contain a single English player. Football is a tribal game, it's an expression of self, and local people support their local teams because it feels a part of them and their identity. To go and watch a Newcastle team without a single British player would seem a bit absurd. But it would be equally absurd if Arsenal began carrying some crap English player round on their team bus who was never good enough to play but had to be there to satisfy regulations. I think a medium has to be found I'm just not sure where the line should be drawn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Should add that having a minimum requirement of English players in a matchday squad would definitely give clubs more reason/incentive to get involved more in development from the earliest of ages, which could perhaps only be a good thing for youth football and the future of the national team. It tends to be dog-eat-dog and so in the short-term a solution like this one could have it's problems, but they may well get ironed out down the line when more and more money has been put into academies and youth development, in order to make sure that the English players in squads are good enough to actually play. Why not start gently incase Wenger spits out his evian...Say start with 2 with a target of 3 by 2010, giving clubs time to adjust. This is not predominatly about the national team either, it is about the well being of the grass roots game...The producing of another Shearer. How many games would Taylor have got but for injuries and the fact we didn't buy def....? We might never have known Taylor's potential as we do now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 My other post was better, comment on that one as well. As for the Shearer comment, it's another difficult one to call because when young players are good enough they are generally still given the chance to play. Rooney at Everton is the obvious recent example and there are numerous others littered throughout the current Premiership who prove that there is still a decent turnover of quality players coming out of this country. In the long-run it's quite possible that the likes of Arsenal and their approach could benefit our game at all levels, because people have had their eyes opened to the importance of scouting networks and young players who can be signed for relatively small amounts of cash. No doubt we will have missed out on some potential quality lately, but has it ever been different? It's really the lower level clubs who need to carry the baton for development of this nature, because they are the ones who will benefit the most from it. Although they obviously have less money and power than the likes of us and Arsenal, they are generally more reliant upon local talent and should perhaps be given more funding to improve their own academy systems/youth set-ups. That could be another alternative, right there. Why should all quality players come from Premiership academies? It's probably better for all concerned if "lesser" clubs were given help in creating the stars of tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 16 players and no Englishmen IS a worry, no doubt. Surely working at the root of the problem (grassroots football/youth football) is the way forward, though, at least for now? If English players were good enough to play for Arsenal, then they would play, it's as simple as that. I'm sure Wenger scouts in this country as much as he does elsewhere, but the difference tends to be the money he paid for Walcott versus the money he'd have to pay for a 16-year-old from Senegal or France who had shown similar promise to Walcott. I think bringing in a player limit could bring as many problems as solutions as some clubs would be forced to have sub-standard players, it could harm the development of some youngsters rather than help it if they were getting fast-tracked and people could just buy English to conform to the rules, then never ever play them. Which does even more harm than good to our game. It's not as simple as putting a cap on foreigners or something like that. My initial thought was to suggest increasing the number of subs to 7 and then asking for 3 of the 18 named players to be English, in England of course, but then I started seeing that even something like that had it's fair share of drawbacks. I simply don't beleive Wenger is looking as hard for English talent as he does for French/Martinique/Senegal/Mali talent. I also beleive Wenger is using the PL to develop French players. Have some of that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 .....and another thing...Henry..He'd be fucked in SerieA. Not sure what that has to do with this.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Thing is, as I've said re: Walcott, the media hype in this country and the money in football is such that young players tend to be worth ridiculously high amounts of it, meaning that it's an obvious solution for clubs to look elsewhere (like we have done with Krul and N'Zogbia). If Wenger was bringing in truckloads of shite, then I'd understand your point a bit more and sympathise more, but the fact is there is not one player in the 16 named yesterday who I would say "no" to Newcastle having in various capacities. I'd be interested to know if Wenger could have realistically signed English players of similar/better quality to the likes of Clichy, Eboue, Toure, Aliadiere and Diaby for the same sort of money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Here the INTER SQUAD..... 4 Javier Zanetti 28 1 1 11 4 0 15 0 1 0 5 Dejan Stankovic 25 2 5 35 3 5 31 0 9 0 8 Zlatan Ibrahimovic 23 1 15 40 14 3 31 0 6 2 13 Sisenando Maicon 22 4 0 9 1 5 15 0 7 1 23 Marco Materazzi 21 1 5 5 1 0 26 0 9 1 2 Ivan Ramiro Cordoba 19 3 0 5 1 0 16 0 7 0 18 Hernán Crespo 18 5 10 23 6 2 8 0 3 0 14 Patrick Vieira 18 0 1 7 4 2 40 0 6 1 11 Fabio Grosso 17 1 2 11 2 1 6 0 1 0 7 Luis Figo 15 10 0 15 3 2 29 0 2 0 16 Nicolas Burdisso 14 5 2 5 0 1 25 0 5 0 15 Olivier Dacourt 14 4 0 6 1 0 14 0 5 0 19 Esteban Cambiasso 12 2 3 13 3 0 7 0 0 0 25 Walter Samuel 12 6 3 4 0 0 18 0 4 0 6 Maxwell 11 4 1 6 0 1 8 0 2 0 10 Adriano 11 9 4 40 9 7 29 0 1 0 21 Santiago Solari 8 8 1 13 4 2 4 0 1 0 9 Julio Cruz 6 5 5 15 4 1 15 0 1 0 1 Francesco Toldo 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 20 Alvaro Recoba 3 4 0 11 2 0 1 0 0 0 77 Marco Andreolli 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 91 Mariano Gonzalez 1 8 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 8 Scherer Andrade Maxwell 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 79 Fabian Carini 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 46 Dennis Esposito 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 57 Attila Filkor 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 91 Daniel Maa Boumsong 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 57 Ibrahim Maaroufi 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 50 Ibrahim Maroufi 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 I kid you not the only Italian players are in bold.... ...and that's the WHOLE SQUAD. > Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Espositio is Italian, is he not? What about Toldo? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 ...Don't really see your point there. Didn't Italy just win the world cup, with all of the squad members plying their trade in Italy? Why does it matter how they're distributed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Espositio is Italian, is he not? What about Toldo? Ok I missed Toldo... Esposito I'll look up....He is actually Italian. blueyes.gif Wow!! We found another one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 ...Don't really see your point there. Didn't Italy just win the world cup, with all of the squad members plying their trade in Italy? Why does it matter how they're distributed? It's about the grass roots game.....No wonder attendances in Italy have continued falling for the last 15 years...I mean who are they watching Boca Juniors? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 ...Don't really see your point there. Didn't Italy just win the world cup, with all of the squad members plying their trade in Italy? Why does it matter how they're distributed? It's about the grass roots game.....No wonder attendances in Italy have continued falling for the last 15 years...I mean who are they watching Boca Juniors? Sure, all the games being on TV obviously has nothing to do with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Anyone noticed Arsenal's attendances falling because of the cosmopolitan composition of their squad? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Espositio is Italian, is he not? What about Toldo? Ok I missed Toldo... Esposito I'll look up....He is actually Italian. blueyes.gif Wow!! We found another one. So there are two-thirds more Italian players at the club than you said there were. I grow more and more suspiscious of you by the day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I wouldn't want to see a drastic fall in the quality of football to satisfy a rule like this. It would mean us having to play the likes of Ramage week in week out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Espositio is Italian, is he not? What about Toldo? Ok I missed Toldo... Esposito I'll look up....He is actually Italian. blueyes.gif Wow!! We found another one. So there are two-thirds more Italian players at the club than you said there were. I grow more and more suspiscious of you by the day. How many non-Italians are there? 24. It has to be asked why bother calling it the European champions league? When it isn't anything of th kind and totally non-reflective of domestic games. Well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I wouldn't want to see a drastic fall in the quality of football to satisfy a rule like this. It would mean us having to play the likes of Ramage week in week out. Luckily Ramage is from the Ivory coast. http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,1766_2017245,00.html Coppell, capped 42 times by England in his playing days, is concerned that a lack of home representation in the top flight is responsible for England's indifferent showings at major championships. And he believes the only answer is for the game's authorities to clamp down on the number of foreign names on the team-sheet. He told the Reading Evening Post: "The fact we are struggling is a mixture of things. There are players from every country playing at the top level and European football is improving. But I am certain that if I was in charge of England I would be looking at the amount of English players playing in each of the teams. "It is damaging for the national team to have so many of the top clubs having so many foreign players. This is the English Premiership and it should be dominated by English players. "If you use Arsenal as an example 'how many English players do they have playing every week?' I'm not criticising, when they are on form they are the most pleasing on the eye, but it doesn't help the English game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 But just how many English players are getting the opportunity to play at this level? In addition to Carragher and Gerrard, only twenty-one other English players have played a role in this season’s competition. There were other home grown players registered in the competition squads, but youngsters such as John Welsh, Scott Carson, Neil Mellor, Chris Eagles and Justin Hoyte made only very occasional, often one-off substitute appearances. Of the twenty-one, only two thirds have been key players in their clubs’ European campaigns this season, making five* or more European appearances: - Michael Owen (5) David Beckham (6) Owen Hargreaves (8) Frank Lampard (12) John Terry (11) Joe Cole (9) Glen Johnson (6) Gary Neville (5) Wes Brown (7) Paul Scholes (7) – retired from England team Rio Ferdinand (5) Wayne Rooney (6) Ashley Cole (8) Alan Thompson (5) Chris Sutton (5) http://www.squarefootball.net/article/article.asp?aid=2051 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 We should be taking some of these West African lads and make them "English", it's the only way forward. I wouldn't want to see a drastic fall in the quality of football to satisfy a rule like this. It would mean us having to play the likes of Ramage week in week out. Oh behave! You love Peter really. I like the way Parky has carried his hollow argument through five pages. Really, what is your point? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Espositio is Italian, is he not? What about Toldo? Ok I missed Toldo... Esposito I'll look up....He is actually Italian. blueyes.gif Wow!! We found another one. So there are two-thirds more Italian players at the club than you said there were. I grow more and more suspiscious of you by the day. How many non-Italians are there? 24. It has to be asked why bother calling it the European champions league? When it isn't anything of th kind and totally non-reflective of domestic games. Well? Doesn't change the fact that your flagrant propaganda was "wide of the mark" by a long, long way! Why Inter, btw? Are there any other Italian teams with such a heavy ratio against domestic players? I've just had a brief look at Roma and Lazio and saw many, many Italians. AC Milan have over 20, easily, in 37 players listed on Soccernet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Here muppets and yes I mean all of YOU.. Despite objections from the Football Association, UEFA have ruled that by the 2008 season, clubs playing in European competitions must field at least eight home-grown players in their 25-man squad. Of the eight, four will have had to be trained by the club's own academy and a further four trained within the same national association. UEFA are also pressing for the ruling to be enforced in domestic competitions, although that is yet to be agreed by national associations. Spending spree: Chelsea's imports have made a big impression The new rule will be introduced from the 2006-07 season with clubs needing to include a minimum of four home-grown players in a squad. That number will be increased to six the following season and eight in 2008-09. No we can't see a problem.....What you on about? Blah blah Henry blah.... mackems.gif END OF THREAD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Yes, because UEFA always do the right thing. Have a word, man. This rule isn't exactly new potatoes, either, it's in FM07 already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Yes, because UEFA always do the right thing. Have a word, man. This rule isn't exactly new potatoes, either, it's in FM07 already. ...according to this board it not only isn't neccessary....No one has even given it a second thought...And most of you thought I was in cuckoo land..Saving it up you see. blueyes.gif I am win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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