Is the manager responsible for individual players' games?

[Guest Knightrider]

It has always been my belief that the player is responsible for his own individual game and performance in the main, and that the manager is responsible for the team and results. However as football evolves and managers take on more responsibilities and become more than just managers, has that changed and do you think it should be that way? I ask because too many players these days hide behind excuses or seem to think they stop developing once they make the first-team. If you read the books of the Shearers and players like him, they make it clear their own careers are in their hands and that they are responsible for performing and reaching their potential, no-one else. Thoughts?

[Mowen]

In the main, no. But a good manager will show his colours by not allowing a player to regress, and bringing him forward. A good manager tends to not have players who play badly on a regular basis.

 

Edit: To clarify what I mean: a manager cannot be held responsible for a player having a bad game. I would, however, start to look at him if the player went on an extended run of bad form.

[chicago_shearer]

Not really.  A good manager certainly has a motivating effect, especially with younger players, but that only goes so far.  Put a good, experienced team out in a positive formation and you should expect it to perform.  The tactical system and preparation is important, but an inability to pass, tackle, control a ball etc. is hardly down to the manager.  They are the easiest figure to blame, but problems are frequently more complicated than the one man at the top.

 

The manager becomes responsible when he fails to identify and replace players that routinely underperform.

[ohmelads]

Depends.

 

In general the player should be held responsible for his own performance. The manager is responsible for how the team is drilled and plays together as a unit, for his tactics and substitutions, and for buying and/or picking that player in the first place.

 

If the player is totally out of position and tries his best to no avail, then normally you would look at the manager and point the finger at him. Sometimes players just have an off day, some will say the manager should motivate them but sometimes these things just happen, they're not machines that can be programmed.

 

Ultimately if a manager is going to be labelled a genius when his team plays well or when an individual saves his arse in the final minute, he must be prepared to take the flak when an individual f*cks up and costs his team a game.

[tmonkey]

Overall, youd expect the manager to be responsible for:

 

- the coaching methods

- the backroom staff

- the fitness training

- the tactics and style of play

- the mentality of the team

- the organisation, movement, drilling of the team (ie coaching)

- motivation of the team as a whole, team talks, etc

- handling problem players

- handling the media

- buying/selling/retaining players

 

So quite clearly, the manager can be held responsible for pretty much everything. The only thing I thing he cant be blamed for are dips in form, personal problems of players affecting their performance, etc. Everything else - from players who simply arent good enough (ie manager's reponsibility to get rid and replace), to the way the team play, the mentality and tactics, the team talks, player instructions and roles (eg sit back, attack) - everything can be pointed towards him.

[Rebellious]

Yes the manager is responsible for getting the best out of each and every player, he identifies problem areas in that players game and gets his coaches to sort it if he han`t the time himself. The manager should certainly work on key players, as SBR did with Shearer. I was thinking that at the Arsenal game, Martins played the whole game with his back to goal.

[Northern Monkey]

Overall, youd expect the manager to be responsible for:

 

- the coaching methods

- the backroom staff

- the fitness training

- the tactics and style of play

- the mentality of the team

- the organisation, movement, drilling of the team (ie coaching)

- motivation of the team as a whole, team talks, etc

- handling problem players

- handling the media

- buying/selling/retaining players

 

So quite clearly, the manager can be held responsible for pretty much everything. The only thing I thing he cant be blamed for are dips in form, personal problems of players affecting their performance, etc. Everything else - from players who simply arent good enough (ie manager's reponsibility to get rid and replace), to the way the team play, the mentality and tactics, the team talks, player instructions and roles (eg sit back, attack) - everything can be pointed towards him.

[NUFC06]

Overall, youd expect the manager to be responsible for:

 

- the coaching methods

- the backroom staff

- the fitness training

- the tactics and style of play

- the mentality of the team

- the organisation, movement, drilling of the team (ie coaching)

- motivation of the team as a whole, team talks, etc

- handling problem players

- handling the media

- buying/selling/retaining players

 

So quite clearly, the manager can be held responsible for pretty much everything. The only thing I thing he cant be blamed for are dips in form, personal problems of players affecting their performance, etc. Everything else - from players who simply arent good enough (ie manager's reponsibility to get rid and replace), to the way the team play, the mentality and tactics, the team talks, player instructions and roles (eg sit back, attack) - everything can be pointed towards him.

 

This.

 

[mrmojorisin75]

i think as a general point the answer has to be no simply 'cause you can't ignore the mental aspect that have to be present in an individual performing well over an extended period

 

for example all the technical/fitness/motivation training in the world has never and will never help kieron dyer because he's a disgrace of a man...he patently has no desire to succeed (now that he's rich) beyond paying lip service to improvement pretty much before every game and then failing to deliver it

 

a counter example would be frank lampard and john terry who at the turn of their 20's had all the potential but a kieron dyer-like attitude to life and performances (remember the 'scandal' with the americans just after 9/11 and all the carrying on they used to do with jody morris?) but at some point they became, for want of a better word, hungry...i have no idea what it could have been but something took them from being full of potential to what they are now

 

lampard and terry couldn't have been what they are now without the desire (again for want of a better word)....cristiano ronaldo is another - a young lad who after 2 seasons of being decorative in the PL with manu could have walked this summer and spent the next 10 years sunning himself and underperforming in spain or italy...instead something (no doubt driven by SAF) inside him changed and he's become the player he is now

 

i'm talking about top level players here, obviously but that's what we're supposed to see ourselves as, right?  so look at newcastle over the last few years and wonder where the hunger has been in our players....perhaps duff, luque, butt (early on), bramble, babayaro, carr and so on could tell us?

 

no doubt some will believe that managers should be able to train this mental attitude into players but i'm not convinced....

[Guest TheOrder]

Can we stop with the  'this' s***?

[Dave]

Can we stop with 'this' shit?

 

This.

[Dave]

Just thought i'd be first btw.

 

Who gives a shit anyway? No different to posting 'agreed'.

[GM]

Just thought i'd be first btw.

 

Who gives a shit anyway? No different to posting 'agreed'.

 

^

[Guest]

No he's not, but he is responsible to drop them (players like Duff, Carr & Parker), when they've had a poor run.

[BottledDog]

i think as a general point the answer has to be no simply 'cause you can't ignore the mental aspect that have to be present in an individual performing well over an extended period

 

for example all the technical/fitness/motivation training in the world has never and will never help kieron dyer because he's a disgrace of a man...he patently has no desire to succeed (now that he's rich) beyond paying lip service to improvement pretty much before every game and then failing to deliver it

 

a counter example would be frank lampard and john terry who at the turn of their 20's had all the potential but a kieron dyer-like attitude to life and performances (remember the 'scandal' with the americans just after 9/11 and all the carrying on they used to do with jody morris?) but at some point they became, for want of a better word, hungry...i have no idea what it could have been but something took them from being full of potential to what they are now

 

lampard and terry couldn't have been what they are now without the desire (again for want of a better word)....cristiano ronaldo is another - a young lad who after 2 seasons of being decorative in the PL with manu could have walked this summer and spent the next 10 years sunning himself and underperforming in spain or italy...instead something (no doubt driven by SAF) inside him changed and he's become the player he is now

 

i'm talking about top level players here, obviously but that's what we're supposed to see ourselves as, right?  so look at newcastle over the last few years and wonder where the hunger has been in our players....perhaps duff, luque, butt (early on), bramble, babayaro, carr and so on could tell us?

 

no doubt some will believe that managers should be able to train this mental attitude into players but i'm not convinced....

 

But you admit that the manager has his role - "no doubt driven by SAF".

 

Yes if a lazy bugger is a lazy bugger he is unlikely to change such a fundamental trait (in general people dont change despite what some women seem to think *cough*), but that is something you would hope would be picked up before the player is bought. That said, through direction and motivation, coaching and confidence, a good manager it seems can make a remarkable difference to a players will to win and desire to do the best they can for themselves and the team.

 

You pick up on SAF, and I agree, he has handled Ronaldo brilliantly and he also has a knack of getting his teams to bond brillianty both on and importantly off the pitch and buy into the mentality of the club. His teams fight for each other. Mourinho also gives his players that extra nudge to succeed but maybe slightly differently from Fergie in that his players fight for him rather than the team or the club (which is one of the reasons I think they would be mad to let him go as I can see a number of his team happily following him). Keegan has to be another example closer to home, his players were by no means always the greatest but played to their absolute best and did it consistantly. He was an inspiration.

 

So, err.... yup.

I do think a good manager can make the difference in moulding a group of players into a team with a winning mentality. Something we certainly appear to lack under Roeder.

[Guest smoggeordie]

Just thought i'd be first btw.

 

Who gives a s*** anyway? No different to posting 'agreed'.

 

Agreed.

[mrmojorisin75]

i think as a general point the answer has to be no simply 'cause you can't ignore the mental aspect that have to be present in an individual performing well over an extended period

 

for example all the technical/fitness/motivation training in the world has never and will never help kieron dyer because he's a disgrace of a man...he patently has no desire to succeed (now that he's rich) beyond paying lip service to improvement pretty much before every game and then failing to deliver it

 

a counter example would be frank lampard and john terry who at the turn of their 20's had all the potential but a kieron dyer-like attitude to life and performances (remember the 'scandal' with the americans just after 9/11 and all the carrying on they used to do with jody morris?) but at some point they became, for want of a better word, hungry...i have no idea what it could have been but something took them from being full of potential to what they are now

 

lampard and terry couldn't have been what they are now without the desire (again for want of a better word)....cristiano ronaldo is another - a young lad who after 2 seasons of being decorative in the PL with manu could have walked this summer and spent the next 10 years sunning himself and underperforming in spain or italy...instead something (no doubt driven by SAF) inside him changed and he's become the player he is now

 

i'm talking about top level players here, obviously but that's what we're supposed to see ourselves as, right?  so look at newcastle over the last few years and wonder where the hunger has been in our players....perhaps duff, luque, butt (early on), bramble, babayaro, carr and so on could tell us?

 

no doubt some will believe that managers should be able to train this mental attitude into players but i'm not convinced....

 

But you admit that the manager has his role - "no doubt driven by SAF".

 

Yes if a lazy bugger is a lazy bugger he is unlikely to change such a fundamental trait (in general people dont change despite what some women seem to think *cough*), but that is something you would hope would be picked up before the player is bought. That said, through direction and motivation, coaching and confidence, a good manager it seems can make a remarkable difference to a players will to win and desire to do the best they can for themselves and the team.

 

You pick up on SAF, and I agree, he has handled Ronaldo brilliantly and he also has a knack of getting his teams to bond brillianty both on and importantly off the pitch and buy into the mentality of the club. His teams fight for each other. Mourinho also gives his players that extra nudge to succeed but maybe slightly differently from Fergie in that his players fight for him rather than the team or the club (which is one of the reasons I think they would be mad to let him go as I can see a number of his team happily following him). Keegan has to be another example closer to home, his players were by no means always the greatest but played to their absolute best and did it consistantly. He was an inspiration.

 

So, err.... yup.

I do think a good manager can make the difference in moulding a group of players into a team with a winning mentality. Something we certainly appear to lack under Roeder.

 

ah but the question was about individuals performances not moulding/building a team

 

i'm saying that a manager can influence it if it's there already (ronaldo and fergie for example) but when it's not there it can't be created

 

look at giggs and lee sharpe at manu (ok one was more talented than the other, granted) - both played in the same team under the same manager but one stuck to it and lived a good lifestyle, determined to suceed...the other did not and although lee sharpe was never as talented as giggs i feel it serves as a good example of how big a factor attitude of the individual can have REGARDLESS who the manager was

 

[BottledDog]

i think as a general point the answer has to be no simply 'cause you can't ignore the mental aspect that have to be present in an individual performing well over an extended period

 

for example all the technical/fitness/motivation training in the world has never and will never help kieron dyer because he's a disgrace of a man...he patently has no desire to succeed (now that he's rich) beyond paying lip service to improvement pretty much before every game and then failing to deliver it

 

a counter example would be frank lampard and john terry who at the turn of their 20's had all the potential but a kieron dyer-like attitude to life and performances (remember the 'scandal' with the americans just after 9/11 and all the carrying on they used to do with jody morris?) but at some point they became, for want of a better word, hungry...i have no idea what it could have been but something took them from being full of potential to what they are now

 

lampard and terry couldn't have been what they are now without the desire (again for want of a better word)....cristiano ronaldo is another - a young lad who after 2 seasons of being decorative in the PL with manu could have walked this summer and spent the next 10 years sunning himself and underperforming in spain or italy...instead something (no doubt driven by SAF) inside him changed and he's become the player he is now

 

i'm talking about top level players here, obviously but that's what we're supposed to see ourselves as, right?  so look at newcastle over the last few years and wonder where the hunger has been in our players....perhaps duff, luque, butt (early on), bramble, babayaro, carr and so on could tell us?

 

no doubt some will believe that managers should be able to train this mental attitude into players but i'm not convinced....

 

But you admit that the manager has his role - "no doubt driven by SAF".

 

Yes if a lazy bugger is a lazy bugger he is unlikely to change such a fundamental trait (in general people dont change despite what some women seem to think *cough*), but that is something you would hope would be picked up before the player is bought. That said, through direction and motivation, coaching and confidence, a good manager it seems can make a remarkable difference to a players will to win and desire to do the best they can for themselves and the team.

 

You pick up on SAF, and I agree, he has handled Ronaldo brilliantly and he also has a knack of getting his teams to bond brillianty both on and importantly off the pitch and buy into the mentality of the club. His teams fight for each other. Mourinho also gives his players that extra nudge to succeed but maybe slightly differently from Fergie in that his players fight for him rather than the team or the club (which is one of the reasons I think they would be mad to let him go as I can see a number of his team happily following him). Keegan has to be another example closer to home, his players were by no means always the greatest but played to their absolute best and did it consistantly. He was an inspiration.

 

So, err.... yup.

I do think a good manager can make the difference in moulding a group of players into a team with a winning mentality. Something we certainly appear to lack under Roeder.

 

ah but the question was about individuals performances not moulding/building a team

 

i'm saying that a manager can influence it if it's there already (ronaldo and fergie for example) but when it's not there it can't be created

 

look at giggs and lee sharpe at manu (ok one was more talented than the other, granted) - both played in the same team under the same manager but one stuck to it and lived a good lifestyle, determined to suceed...the other did not and although lee sharpe was never as talented as giggs i feel it serves as a good example of how big a factor attitude of the individual can have REGARDLESS who the manager was

 

 

I think that the ability to build winning team is more connected with influencing individuals performances than you suggest. Making them want to play for their manager, the team and the club, I would argue that players can be made to deliver a higher percentage of consistantly good performances, and that it is this ability to get the best out of an individual that actually allows those successful squads to be built.

 

As I said, I recognise that certain strong traits cannot be changed, and a good manager recognises this and gets rid rather that holding out the hope that they can be changed (less than easy if you bought that player in the first place I grant you). But in some cases I'm sure players can be made to excell where they haven't before, and possibly this isn't just through playing players in their most effectiver positions, or drilling a game plan into them in training, it is also about managing their attitudes.

 

Given the right managers inspiration, direction and coaching, I believe a player will put in better performances. There are loads of factors, but if we forget everything else, I'd still wager that SAF would still be getting more out of Ronaldo than we might have seen had Souness been his manager.

 

 

[Geordie Boot Boy]

Is the manager responsible for individual players' games?

 

No, not unless the manager bought that specific player.  Apparently. 

[Mr Logic]

It's the mental attitude of the player that counts towards a good performance or not. Even a journeyman can look good with a consistent mental attitude geared to winning.

 

Look at a team of footballers who are enjoying life and playing for each other, the team. Now look at the current Newcastle team on the park. There's something badly wrong.

 

And to effect so many players, some of whom have been known to play good football before, it must be in the overall air of the dressing room. There is no-one else to blame except Roeder unless you can identify a rotten apple in the squad who's negativity is affecting half the squad. But again, Roeder should spot that and isolate the infection.

 

Look at Keegans team that came up, half of them were not that special but my God he had them playing with confidence and for each other. A team. Roeder doen't have a team, who else can you blame?

[Lenny]

It's the mental attitude of the player that counts towards a good performance or not. Even a journeyman can look good with a consistent mental attitude geared to winning.

 

Look at a team of footballers who are enjoying life and playing for each other, the team. Now look at the current Newcastle team on the park. There's something badly wrong.

 

And to effect so many players, some of whom have been known to play good football before, it must be in the overall air of the dressing room. There is no-one else to blame except Roeder unless you can identify a rotten apple in the squad who's negativity is affecting half the squad. But again, Roeder should spot that and isolate the infection.

 

Look at Keegans team that came up, half of them were not that special but my God he had them playing with confidence and for each other. A team. Roeder doen't have a team, who else can you blame?

 

[Guest Knightrider]

It is the nature vs nurture thing, I think that the player is ultimately responsible for his own career if you like but the manager can play a massive and influential role in the development of a player's game and indeed career.

[BottledDog]

But, it was while I was reading Roeder’s post-match comments over the weekend in my post-holiday glow, that it occurred to me that motivation is ultimately Roeder’s responsibility.

 

He is right in some respects, players should be self-motivated given the money they earn and the clubs they represent, but the best managers manage to motivate every player, even the difficult ones with an attitude problem, or the lazy ones who are prone to going missing in difficult games. For me, forget tactics, it’s a manager’s inspirational qualities that really make the difference, especially when it comes to man management, because they bring out the best in every player.

 

Look at Sir Bobby Robson’s handling of Laurent Robert and Craig Bellamy at Newcastle, or the way he treated Romario at PSV. His relationship was never easy with any of them but, more often than not, they played well for him. Look at Sir Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger and Jose Mourinho and the egos they have under them. In fact, look at Roy Keane’s motivational qualities at Sunderland.

 

Then compare that to the way Roeder has handled Albert Luque, a player whose approach to the game can easily be compared to Robert’s.

 

At the moment, Newcastle’s players are not playing well enough for the club, the supporters or its manager, but it is the latter who bares the burden most heavily on his shoulders.

 

He has the remainder of the season to prove he can inspire in difficult circumstances and that means the games against Blackburn Rovers, Reading and Watford, not a glamour clash with Chelsea when everyone, to use football speak, will “be up for it.”

 

 

http://www.lukewhostalking.co.uk/2007/04/motivation_is_the_name_of_the.html

 

Been reading my posts obviously.

[NG32]

Yes, its the managers responsibilty to get a group of individuals playing as one entity.