Wenger "Newcastle have the same potential as Arsenal,"

[Cajun]

Shepherd wanted Bellamy out as well, didn't he?

 

Did he  ? Did he tell you that ?

 

 

 

Too lazy to go and find the quotes but I am 99% certain Shepherd came out and slated Bellamy on a few occasions during that saga. Think it would be fair to say he isn't his biggest fan!

 

Certainly remember something along the lines of "he will never play for this club again"

 

Well, his manager said that. But don't think for a moment that the chairmans job is to defend his manager or anything.

 

 

 

Not exactly praising him here http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/4194437.stm

 

"At that meeting Bellamy admitted to Graeme and I that he had told the players that he was going to "fake" an injury in training and walk off.

 

"He also agreed at that meeting to apologise to his team-mates for his behaviour. He didn't do this which resulted in the action taken by the manager at the weekend, which I fully support.

 

"In my book this is cheating on the club, the supporters, the manager and his own team-mates.

 

"He is paid extremely well and I consider his behaviour to be totally unacceptable and totally unprofessional."

 

 

[NE5]

We are discussing Shepherd's failings as a chairman. While these of course include characterising supporters as mugs and describing Geordie women as dogs, that is not the main issue here.

 

Well, Martins Edwards was caught in a scrape or two and it didn't stop manure winning a cup or two.

 

 

And as I say, while Shepherd obviously has zero respect for the supporters and the people of Newcastle, and will happily bad-mouth them to anyone that he thinks might give him some more cash, this is not the main reason why he is taking the club steadily backwards.

 

I don't think any self respecting supporter of Newcastle United would e-mail a lundon journo who writes articles making it plain that he doesn't like NUFC or geordies, to dish the dirt on the club.

 

 

[Guest Knightrider]

Wenger is wrong, we have FAR more potential than Arsenal who have already under his stewardship reached their zenith, save a Champion League winners medal. Where as NUFC hasn't had anywhere near the level of success Arsenal have enjoyed since the Edwardian days really. If we played football like Arsenal and were winning doubles, getting to Champions League finals and generally fulfilling our true potential, you could bolt an extra 30,000 seats and I still think there would be lock-outs. You could also add 10s of millions to the turnover.

 

Just a shame we have a shite manager, appointed by a shite board.

[NE5]

Shepherd wanted Bellamy out as well, didn't he?

 

Did he  ? Did he tell you that ?

 

 

 

Too lazy to go and find the quotes but I am 99% certain Shepherd came out and slated Bellamy on a few occasions during that saga. Think it would be fair to say he isn't his biggest fan!

 

Certainly remember something along the lines of "he will never play for this club again"

 

Well, his manager said that. But don't think for a moment that the chairmans job is to defend his manager or anything.

 

 

 

Not exactly praising him here http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/4194437.stm

 

"At that meeting Bellamy admitted to Graeme and I that he had told the players that he was going to "fake" an injury in training and walk off.

 

"He also agreed at that meeting to apologise to his team-mates for his behaviour. He didn't do this which resulted in the action taken by the manager at the weekend, which I fully support.

 

"In my book this is cheating on the club, the supporters, the manager and his own team-mates.

 

"He is paid extremely well and I consider his behaviour to be totally unacceptable and totally unprofessional."

 

 

and if he hadn't backed his manager, you would have said what, exactly ?

 

 

[NE5]

Wenger is wrong, we have FAR more potential than Arsenal who have already under his stewardship reached their zenith, save a Champion League winners medal. Where as NUFC hasn't had anywhere near the level of success Arsenal have enjoyed since the Edwardian days really. If we played football like Arsenal and were winning doubles, getting to Champions League finals and generally fulfilling our true potential, you could bolt an extra 30,000 seats and I still think there would be lock-outs. You could also add 10s of millions to the turnover.

 

absolutely. The mentality of a londoner, because thats where he's based, until he either comes here or something opens his eyes.

 

Just a shame we have a shite manager, appointed by a shite board.

 

You have supported Roeder being given a chance mate, like me, but can accept the task is looking increasingly beyond him.

He's tried though, but it doesn't make them a shite board, for thinking he was worth a go, just like you and me and plenty others.

 

My choice - realistically - would have been Allardyce, as you know I wanted him when Robson went. I would prefer wenger though if we could get him to leave Arsenal.

 

 

[Cajun]

Excuses NE5, same old as usual.

 

If he came out and said Bellamy was right and Souness should fuck off you would just twist it and say he is looking out for the best interests of the club keeping our best player and getting rid of a manager who wasn't good enough.

 

Fact is, he hired Souness, backed him with a shit load of money and back him over the whole Bellamy incident. You can try and blame everyone else with your "well you would have moaned if he did x,y or z" but most people can see through your weak attempts to defend the chairman at all costs.

[OzzieMandias]

We are discussing Shepherd's failings as a chairman. While these of course include characterising supporters as mugs and describing Geordie women as dogs, that is not the main issue here.

 

Well, Martins Edwards was caught in a scrape or two and it didn't stop manure winning a cup or two.

 

 

And as I say, while Shepherd obviously has zero respect for the supporters and the people of Newcastle, and will happily bad-mouth them to anyone that he thinks might give him some more cash, this is not the main reason why he is taking the club steadily backwards.

 

I don't think any self respecting supporter of Newcastle United would e-mail a lundon journo who writes articles making it plain that he doesn't like NUFC or geordies, to dish the dirt on the club.

 

 

 

Of course not. But he certainly might help arrange for Newcastle supporters to have a reply in the press after Shepherd had once again slagged off those supporters.

[Guest Knightrider]

Wenger is wrong, we have FAR more potential than Arsenal who have already under his stewardship reached their zenith, save a Champion League winners medal. Where as NUFC hasn't had anywhere near the level of success Arsenal have enjoyed since the Edwardian days really. If we played football like Arsenal and were winning doubles, getting to Champions League finals and generally fulfilling our true potential, you could bolt an extra 30,000 seats and I still think there would be lock-outs. You could also add 10s of millions to the turnover.

 

absolutely. The mentality of a londoner, because thats where he's based, until he either comes here or something opens his eyes.

 

Just a shame we have a shite manager, appointed by a shite board.

 

You have supported Roeder being given a chance mate, like me, but can accept the task is looking increasingly beyond him.

He's tried though, but it doesn't make them a shite board, for thinking he was worth a go, just like you and me and plenty others.

 

My choice - realistically - would have been Allardyce, as you know I wanted him when Robson went. I would prefer wenger though if we could get him to leave Arsenal.

 

 

 

Roeder looks nailed on to be the second successive failed appointment = shite board. Especially as it will be their 4th failure in 5 attempts. Regardless of facts or opinion, that is a poor record and they can only get away with that typoe of record for so long. BTW I wasn't supportive of Roeder's appointment, I was pretty gutted, as the manager though, I support him but with every defeat and poor performance it is becoming very very hard to support this utter shite we're being served up on a weekly basis now. Roeder is in danger of going down as a worse appointment than Souness which I personally thought was impossible, but unless he and the board can somehow tun things around massively he's heading the same way as the Scot and the board need to be held responsible when the inevitable happens because we as a club can't go on like this.

[NE5]

Wenger is wrong, we have FAR more potential than Arsenal who have already under his stewardship reached their zenith, save a Champion League winners medal. Where as NUFC hasn't had anywhere near the level of success Arsenal have enjoyed since the Edwardian days really. If we played football like Arsenal and were winning doubles, getting to Champions League finals and generally fulfilling our true potential, you could bolt an extra 30,000 seats and I still think there would be lock-outs. You could also add 10s of millions to the turnover.

 

absolutely. The mentality of a londoner, because thats where he's based, until he either comes here or something opens his eyes.

 

Just a shame we have a shite manager, appointed by a shite board.

 

You have supported Roeder being given a chance mate, like me, but can accept the task is looking increasingly beyond him.

He's tried though, but it doesn't make them a shite board, for thinking he was worth a go, just like you and me and plenty others.

 

My choice - realistically - would have been Allardyce, as you know I wanted him when Robson went. I would prefer wenger though if we could get him to leave Arsenal.

 

 

 

Roeder looks nailed on to be the second successive failed appointment = shite board. Especially as it will be their 4th failure in 5 attempts. Regardless of facts or opinion, that is a poor record and they can only get away with that typoe of record for so long. BTW I wasn't supportive of Roeder's appointment, I was pretty gutted, as the manager though, I support him but with every defeat and poor performance it is becoming very very hard to support this utter shite we're being served up on a weekly basis now. Roeder is in danger of going down as a worse appointment than Souness which I personally thought was impossible, but unless he and the board can somehow tun things around massively he's heading the same way as the Scot and the board need to be held responsible when the inevitable happens because we as a club can't go on like this.

 

Roeder had a lot of good will, but he's destroying it through a combination of poor results, and ramblings to the press.

 

I can't honestly see the situation getting any better for him, unless he pulls a Bellamy and a Robert out of the hat, as those 2 players saved Bobby Robsons reputation and job at Newcastle too, because they totally transformed everything.

 

I wouldn't ever hate him the way I hate Souness, but I really don't want to have my memory of him as a good player, good captain, and a manager who gave it his best shot to be soured.

 

I am now of the opinion that they should look to make a change, and do it as soon as possible after the season is finished. And it goes without saying, that even though they back their managers - the value of which is seriously underestimated by lots of people on here - they will be under severe pressure and deservedly so if they get it wrong again.

 

 

[Stevie]

Wenger is wrong, we have FAR more potential than Arsenal who have already under his stewardship reached their zenith, save a Champion League winners medal. Where as NUFC hasn't had anywhere near the level of success Arsenal have enjoyed since the Edwardian days really. If we played football like Arsenal and were winning doubles, getting to Champions League finals and generally fulfilling our true potential, you could bolt an extra 30,000 seats and I still think there would be lock-outs. You could also add 10s of millions to the turnover.

 

Just a shame we have a s**** manager, appointed by a s**** board.

This is a top post and basically reiterates the views of North East based toon fans.  The most loyal fans in the world are supposed to be Man City, where are they now?  Drifting away that's where.  In the main we're no better than them, yet for the seventh consequtive season will average over 50,000.  There's no c***, NO c*** in the world who could say that they'd get the same in our predicament/lack of success.  A Champions League run, top four finish would easily see at the very minimum 30,000 extra JCL's want to come back to SJP.

 

Wenger knows we could threaten the lot of them if we could only get it right, the basic infrastructure is geared for success, it's just a shame it probably won't happen till the club is taken over.   We're a much bigger club than Tottenham and Aston Villa, we can't afford another s*** season though, I think next year is make or break.

[NE5]

We are discussing Shepherd's failings as a chairman. While these of course include characterising supporters as mugs and describing Geordie women as dogs, that is not the main issue here.

 

Well, Martins Edwards was caught in a scrape or two and it didn't stop manure winning a cup or two.

 

 

And as I say, while Shepherd obviously has zero respect for the supporters and the people of Newcastle, and will happily bad-mouth them to anyone that he thinks might give him some more cash, this is not the main reason why he is taking the club steadily backwards.

 

I don't think any self respecting supporter of Newcastle United would e-mail a lundon journo who writes articles making it plain that he doesn't like NUFC or geordies, to dish the dirt on the club.

 

 

 

Of course not. But he certainly might help arrange for Newcastle supporters to have a reply in the press after Shepherd had once again slagged off those supporters.

 

of course its right up his street to find someone prepared to dish the dirt on the club, especially one of its own "supporters". That would make us a bit of a laughing stock. I mean you BTW.

 

 

 

 

[Cajun]

Wenger is wrong, we have FAR more potential than Arsenal who have already under his stewardship reached their zenith, save a Champion League winners medal. Where as NUFC hasn't had anywhere near the level of success Arsenal have enjoyed since the Edwardian days really. If we played football like Arsenal and were winning doubles, getting to Champions League finals and generally fulfilling our true potential, you could bolt an extra 30,000 seats and I still think there would be lock-outs. You could also add 10s of millions to the turnover.

 

absolutely. The mentality of a londoner, because thats where he's based, until he either comes here or something opens his eyes.

 

Just a shame we have a shite manager, appointed by a shite board.

 

You have supported Roeder being given a chance mate, like me, but can accept the task is looking increasingly beyond him.

He's tried though, but it doesn't make them a shite board, for thinking he was worth a go, just like you and me and plenty others.

 

My choice - realistically - would have been Allardyce, as you know I wanted him when Robson went. I would prefer wenger though if we could get him to leave Arsenal.

 

 

 

Roeder looks nailed on to be the second successive failed appointment = shite board. Especially as it will be their 4th failure in 5 attempts. Regardless of facts or opinion, that is a poor record and they can only get away with that typoe of record for so long. BTW I wasn't supportive of Roeder's appointment, I was pretty gutted, as the manager though, I support him but with every defeat and poor performance it is becoming very very hard to support this utter shite we're being served up on a weekly basis now. Roeder is in danger of going down as a worse appointment than Souness which I personally thought was impossible, but unless he and the board can somehow tun things around massively he's heading the same way as the Scot and the board need to be held responsible when the inevitable happens because we as a club can't go on like this.

 

Roeder had a lot of good will, but he's destroying it through a combination of poor results, and ramblings to the press.

 

I can't honestly see the situation getting any better for him, unless he pulls a Bellamy and a Robert out of the hat, as those 2 players saved Bobby Robsons reputation and job at Newcastle too, because they totally transformed everything.

 

I wouldn't ever hate him the way I hate Souness, but I really don't want to have my memory of him as a good player, good captain, and a manager who gave it his best shot to be soured.

 

I am now of the opinion that they should look to make a change, and do it as soon as possible after the season is finished. And it goes without saying, that even though they back their managers - the value of which is seriously underestimated by lots of people on here - they will be under severe pressure and deservedly so if they get it wrong again.

 

 

 

Reading that just reminds me of someone who constantly forgives their wife for cheating,

 

Husband: Ok but this is the last time, I am serious if you do it again I am leaving you!

 

Husband: Oh, you are still going to that pottery class? Well have fun I suppose dear. You will have to show me something you have made soon.

 

Wife: Er, yeah well I will see if they let me bring something back [touches up the lipstick and pulls the top down a bit lower as she walks out the door]

[Dinho lad]

Did he  ? Did he tell you that ?

 

  You mean you didn't know what was going on inside your club? Oh Steve boy, I'm so disappointed in you. 

 

First you couldn't answer all of my questions in the Ultimate NUFC Quiz thread and now you didn't know this?

 

 

 

[Syrette]

Wenger is wrong, we have FAR more potential than Arsenal who have already under his stewardship reached their zenith, save a Champion League winners medal. Where as NUFC hasn't had anywhere near the level of success Arsenal have enjoyed since the Edwardian days really. If we played football like Arsenal and were winning doubles, getting to Champions League finals and generally fulfilling our true potential, you could bolt an extra 30,000 seats and I still think there would be lock-outs. You could also add 10s of millions to the turnover.

 

Just a shame we have a s**** manager, appointed by a s**** board.

This is a top post and basically reiterates the views of North East based toon fans.

 

Why only them?

[Guest Knightrider]

Wenger is wrong, we have FAR more potential than Arsenal who have already under his stewardship reached their zenith, save a Champion League winners medal. Where as NUFC hasn't had anywhere near the level of success Arsenal have enjoyed since the Edwardian days really. If we played football like Arsenal and were winning doubles, getting to Champions League finals and generally fulfilling our true potential, you could bolt an extra 30,000 seats and I still think there would be lock-outs. You could also add 10s of millions to the turnover.

 

Just a shame we have a s**** manager, appointed by a s**** board.

This is a top post and basically reiterates the views of North East based toon fans.  The most loyal fans in the world are supposed to be Man City, where are they now?  Drifting away that's where.  In the main we're no better than them, yet for the seventh consequtive season will average over 50,000.  There's no c***, NO c*** in the world who could say that they'd get the same in our predicament/lack of success.  A Champions League run, top four finish would easily see at the very minimum 30,000 extra JCL's want to come back to SJP.

 

Wenger knows we could threaten the lot of them if we could only get it right, the basic infrastructure is geared for success, it's just a shame it probably won't happen till the club is taken over.  We're a much bigger club than Tottenham and Aston Villa, we can't afford another s*** season though, I think next year is make or break.

I'm not one to bang on about attendances or how big a club we are which I believe to be pretty irrelevant because it is success that matters, however it can't be ignored that were we to enjoy the levels of success Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea have had in the past 12 or so years, the potential levels we could reach are untold, I think we could give Man Utd a good run for their money in terms of revenue and bums on seats. And had the likes of Man Utd et al went over 50 years without a domestic trophy, I don't think you could get a bet on their attendances not being down significantly. It amazes me we still turn up like we do, some say it is our strength, some say it is our weakness because it allows incompetent idiots to take us for granted. What is the old saying? Put some donkies dressed in Black & White on the pitch of SJP and we'd turn up and pay to watch... well 50,000 + have for the past several seasons now. At no other club!

 

Mind, I think next season will come as a shock as numbers could be down by 10,000 or so.

[Cajun]

Wenger is wrong, we have FAR more potential than Arsenal who have already under his stewardship reached their zenith, save a Champion League winners medal. Where as NUFC hasn't had anywhere near the level of success Arsenal have enjoyed since the Edwardian days really. If we played football like Arsenal and were winning doubles, getting to Champions League finals and generally fulfilling our true potential, you could bolt an extra 30,000 seats and I still think there would be lock-outs. You could also add 10s of millions to the turnover.

 

Just a shame we have a s**** manager, appointed by a s**** board.

This is a top post and basically reiterates the views of North East based toon fans.

 

Why only them?

 

Respectable time to be drunk, its Stevie...

 

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

We are discussing Shepherd's failings as a chairman. While these of course include characterising supporters as mugs and describing Geordie women as dogs, that is not the main issue here.

 

Well, Martins Edwards was caught in a scrape or two and it didn't stop manure winning a cup or two.

 

 

And as I say, while Shepherd obviously has zero respect for the supporters and the people of Newcastle, and will happily bad-mouth them to anyone that he thinks might give him some more cash, this is not the main reason why he is taking the club steadily backwards.

 

I don't think any self respecting supporter of Newcastle United would e-mail a lundon journo who writes articles making it plain that he doesn't like NUFC or geordies, to dish the dirt on the club.

 

 

 

Of course not. But he certainly might help arrange for Newcastle supporters to have a reply in the press after Shepherd had once again slagged off those supporters.

 

of course its right up his street to find someone prepared to dish the dirt on the club, especially one of its own "supporters". That would make us a bit of a laughing stock. I mean you BTW.

 

 

The "dirt" being that the Hitzfeld campaign was an honest effort to get the club to appoint a decent manager and not, as Shepherd dissed it, a "betting scam"?

 

I'll make no apologies for campaigning against Shepherd. It's the few remaining idiots who support him that are doing the most damage to the club.

[tmonkey]

 

hard to know what to say here.

 

What Wenger says is of course, true. But to say we haven't appointed any other decent managers other than SBR and Keegan is complete nonsense. The appointment of Dalglish, was every bit as ambitious and a statement of intent as appointing Wenger himself would be.

 

Gullit too, as at the time he was very much a successful manager looking like he was on the way up in the managerial stakes too.

 

What would people do if Wenger came to Newcastle and failed to match SBR and Keegan, never mind exceed them ? Would you still say that we are being "raped by ineptitude and bad managerial appointments" ?

 

Its fair enough to say that there were good reasons to appoint Dalglish and Gullitt - a blind look at their CVs would suggest that they were good managers at the time we appointed them. Of course, different people have different opinions about the ability level of those managers at the time we appointed them, eg Ive always wanted a manager with a successful continental CV, ie success both domestically and in European competitions, building a side that you can visibly see has the markings of a good manager (eg Fergusons team all have movement, Wenger's technical ability, Rafa and Mourinho defensive organisation and drilling, etc etc) but thats a different arguement.

 

So, for the sake of agreement, lets just say that Shepherd had done a decent job up to and including the appointment of Sir Bobby. He appointed managers with strong CVs, secured a higher amount of income by carrying out the stadium expansion plans from the previous board/chairman, backed his managers in some seasons with cash, eventually took us to a top 4 spot after two failed managerial appointments and finally landing a good manager.

 

What you cant ignore though is the downward spiral of the club under Shepherd's stewardship a few years into Sir Bobby's reign.

 

11th, 11th - first 2 seasons, then 4th, 3rd and 5th suggests differently. Keep making things up though if it makes you happy.

 

Ref my post to you somewhere else about you harping on about "trophy players", have you told us who they are yet ?

 

Ive said a few years INTO Sir Bobby's reign. Learn to read. It means weve gone downwards since the initial few successful seasons. Ie, from 3rd onwards - as 5th, 14th, 7th, and probably 9th-11th, would suggest.

 

Trophy players - Owen, Duff.

 

undermining his manager, then failing to replace him when everything went stale and even our competitors at the time, Liverpool, went about replacing theirs despite finishing above us and having a very similar season under a manager who won plenty of trophies with them.

 

I agree, we should always change our manager at the same time as Liverpool. In fact, everybody should, then everybody would be as successful as they have been. We should always choose trophy winning managers too, just like Liverpool, and everybody else should do the same too. Oh, wait - we HAVE appointed trophy winning managers. Souness was one, Liverpool appointed him. Dalglish too, we appointed him after he won cups at Liverpool.

 

You agree with who? Your imaginary friend?

 

Where have I said we should change managers whenever Liverpool do so?

 

The point that youve clearly missed is that we were in a rot and it was quite clear that Sir Bobby should have been moved on. The exact same was the case with Liverpool. Both teams were shiite under Houllier/Robson respectively that season, and both managers' recent signings had turned out to be poor ones for the most part.

 

Liverpool's board saw this problem and took steps to alleviate those problems as soon as it was the right time to do so. Our board sat around twiddling its thumbs, telling the world that the manager was already out (despite there being plenty of examples of where this had lead to dire seasons from the players), and failed to act.

 

If Shepherd saw fit to undermine Sir Bobby, which he did, then he should have let him go. Unforunately, our chairman is also a softie when it comes to public opinion, scared to "shoot bambi".

 

The sale of Woodgate behind his manager's back without any replacement lined resulting in a terrible start to the season, the dismissal of Sir Bobby without any replacement lined up at a silly time of the season to sack the manager,

 

how do you know someobdy wasn't lined up who changed their mind about joining the club after agreeing to do so ?

 

I dont know for a fact, im merely assuming it based on the fact that the chairman has regularly acted this way. For example, after sacking Sir Bobby, his search for a replacement THEN started. Youd think hed have spoken to a few managers first before making the sacking. But no, thats not Shepherd.

 

the appointment of Souness, a manager who was a national laughing stock with every set of fans thinking him shiite, yet Shepherd decided hed be a good appointment, the backing of Souness with huge amounts of cash, the signing of an injury-prone centreforward for a huge amount of money despite having a weak squad, the refusal to sack Souness whilst the transfer window was still open, the statement of intent when talking about going abroad in looking for a top manager and admitting this was his last chance, the appointment of Roeder, a man with a track record of mediocrity.

 

Since 2003, the club have gone backwards and backwards under Shepherd as hes made poor decision after poor decision. Clearly, the man is an idiot if he thought Souness to be a good manager, and only an idiot would have thought Souness to be a good appointment (can guarantee you that rules out 99.9% of our fans, all of whom probably felt sick when the appointment was announced). And what on earth makes Shepherd think Roeder can coach or build a CL side, which surely is our goal?

 

Maybe some wise heads have left the board since those early years when he made the appointments of Dalglish, Gullitt and Sir Bobby, and as Shepherd's influence has grown without anyone there to give some decent perspective to him, the decision making has gone downhill spectacularly. Or maybe hes undermined one too many a manager, and noone with an ounce of credibility wants to work for him. Either way, hes failing badly to do what hes supposed to, and its unfair that he gets the wield the axe on others, managers or players, yet theres noone there to oust him.

 

I am in agreement about the appointment of Souness. However, the great Liverpool appointed Evans, with no managerial experience whatsover. Oh, wait, that can't be right, we are the only club who make such appointments, and the great Liverpool wouldn't dream of doing such a thing. In fact, neither would the great steve Gibson, who numerous people have said runs his club brilliantly and makes good decisions. The fact is, Roeder could have worked. His situations at West Ham and Watford were totally different to the situation at Newcastle, and the Watford fans don't blame him for being relegated. The West ham fans may do, bless their little cockney socks, but I don't give a stuff about them and it was also the time when he was, or became, a very ill man.

 

Ref your remarks about the appointments of Dalglish, Gullit, Robson etc....I have posted here before excerpts from Keegans book saying quite clearly that it was Shepherd, Hall Jnr and Fletcher who persuaded and chose him to become manager of Newcastle, not sir john Hall.

 

Now. About these "trophy" players. Who are they, and who exactly would you prefer the club to have signed instead of them ?

 

Take your time. And consider the fact that while you are moaning on about the club signing "trophy" players, that the teams you think we should be catching are also brimming with them.

 

Liverpool appointed Evans in the early 90s. The game has moved on since then, the top clubs scour the globe for the top managers - do you think Liverpool would appoint him now?

 

Middlesboro are a small, mid table club. If youre happy to reference them as justification of Roeder's appointment, then its an indication of what your expectations are. Unacceptably low.

 

As for your trophy players - Owen and Duff, as mentioned before. And in case you dont know, im not one who believes we shouldnt sign trophy players. Ive recently said I would want us to sacrifice the needs of the squad if we could land the likes of Rooney or Tevez, and I genuinely think Shepherd should be clapped for his efforts to bring Rooney here - it was a bold move that failed. But im not happy with us using such funds to sign players who are either crocks, or past it. To spend so much on Owen would have been fine if the guy had an injury record to match the likes of Eto'o, but he hasnt, he has pretty much the opposite bar one season on the bench at Real, and prior to the signing, a few of us on here showed these concerns that we were putting all our eggs in one basket. Suprise suprise, look at how things have turned out - predictable. Whether the injuries were unlucky or not, it was always nuts to sign him for 17mill - but then, hes an England international, and Shepherd was under pressure to deliver much needed signings, hence the "trophy" signing.

 

As for Duff, ive had the "we didnt need to spend 5mill and 70k per week on a backup left winger" arguement plenty of times with HTL, and everything that needs to be said has been said.

 

Anyway, responding to you is like talking to a brick wall, so you can have the last word if you want, its just a waste of my time trying to "discuss" anything with you. Youve already used your red herring tactics in this thread, for no reason going on about trophy signings, so I expect youll do the same. After all, I think its clear that youre recieving some sort of benefit from the club's, who have decided to dumb down fans' criticism through the back pocketing of the local media, .com, and now have representations defending the board on various messageboards.

[Guest Knightrider]

Wenger is wrong, we have FAR more potential than Arsenal who have already under his stewardship reached their zenith, save a Champion League winners medal. Where as NUFC hasn't had anywhere near the level of success Arsenal have enjoyed since the Edwardian days really. If we played football like Arsenal and were winning doubles, getting to Champions League finals and generally fulfilling our true potential, you could bolt an extra 30,000 seats and I still think there would be lock-outs. You could also add 10s of millions to the turnover.

 

absolutely. The mentality of a londoner, because thats where he's based, until he either comes here or something opens his eyes.

 

Just a shame we have a shite manager, appointed by a shite board.

 

You have supported Roeder being given a chance mate, like me, but can accept the task is looking increasingly beyond him.

He's tried though, but it doesn't make them a shite board, for thinking he was worth a go, just like you and me and plenty others.

 

My choice - realistically - would have been Allardyce, as you know I wanted him when Robson went. I would prefer wenger though if we could get him to leave Arsenal.

 

 

 

Roeder looks nailed on to be the second successive failed appointment = shite board. Especially as it will be their 4th failure in 5 attempts. Regardless of facts or opinion, that is a poor record and they can only get away with that typoe of record for so long. BTW I wasn't supportive of Roeder's appointment, I was pretty gutted, as the manager though, I support him but with every defeat and poor performance it is becoming very very hard to support this utter shite we're being served up on a weekly basis now. Roeder is in danger of going down as a worse appointment than Souness which I personally thought was impossible, but unless he and the board can somehow tun things around massively he's heading the same way as the Scot and the board need to be held responsible when the inevitable happens because we as a club can't go on like this.

 

Roeder had a lot of good will, but he's destroying it through a combination of poor results, and ramblings to the press.

 

I can't honestly see the situation getting any better for him, unless he pulls a Bellamy and a Robert out of the hat, as those 2 players saved Bobby Robsons reputation and job at Newcastle too, because they totally transformed everything.

 

I wouldn't ever hate him the way I hate Souness, but I really don't want to have my memory of him as a good player, good captain, and a manager who gave it his best shot to be soured.

 

I am now of the opinion that they should look to make a change, and do it as soon as possible after the season is finished. And it goes without saying, that even though they back their managers - the value of which is seriously underestimated by lots of people on here - they will be under severe pressure and deservedly so if they get it wrong again.

 

 

 

Again? How much rope do you give them? Roeder will be their 4trh failure in 5 attempts NE5. That is an awful record and pretty much telling of their ability or rather lack of ability to deliver the right results for Newcastle United, which must be better than what we have witnessed too many times now. There comes a time in all our lives where the penny drops. For you and I the penny that Roeder is failing has dropped, we now accept, with heavy hearts, that he has to go, but what about the board?

 

For many, myself included, when Roeder fails, they won't deserve another crack at getting it right because they will have shown they are unable to get things right, 4 poor appointments in 5 will be all the proof needed to beat them over the head with, and that isn't mentioning all the other things. If a manager lives and dies by results, which we all accept is the fairest way, then so should those that appoint them.

 

When Roeder's time is up, so should the board's time be up. That is the only way forward for Newcastle United.

[NUFC06]

Wenger is wrong, we have FAR more potential than Arsenal who have already under his stewardship reached their zenith, save a Champion League winners medal. Where as NUFC hasn't had anywhere near the level of success Arsenal have enjoyed since the Edwardian days really. If we played football like Arsenal and were winning doubles, getting to Champions League finals and generally fulfilling our true potential, you could bolt an extra 30,000 seats and I still think there would be lock-outs. You could also add 10s of millions to the turnover.

 

absolutely. The mentality of a londoner, because thats where he's based, until he either comes here or something opens his eyes.

 

Just a shame we have a s**** manager, appointed by a s**** board.

 

You have supported Roeder being given a chance mate, like me, but can accept the task is looking increasingly beyond him.

He's tried though, but it doesn't make them a s**** board, for thinking he was worth a go, just like you and me and plenty others.

 

My choice - realistically - would have been Allardyce, as you know I wanted him when Robson went. I would prefer wenger though if we could get him to leave Arsenal.

 

 

 

Roeder looks nailed on to be the second successive failed appointment = s**** board. Especially as it will be their 4th failure in 5 attempts. Regardless of facts or opinion, that is a poor record and they can only get away with that typoe of record for so long. BTW I wasn't supportive of Roeder's appointment, I was pretty gutted, as the manager though, I support him but with every defeat and poor performance it is becoming very very hard to support this utter s**** we're being served up on a weekly basis now. Roeder is in danger of going down as a worse appointment than Souness which I personally thought was impossible, but unless he and the board can somehow tun things around massively he's heading the same way as the Scot and the board need to be held responsible when the inevitable happens because we as a club can't go on like this.

 

Roeder had a lot of good will, but he's destroying it through a combination of poor results, and ramblings to the press.

 

I can't honestly see the situation getting any better for him, unless he pulls a Bellamy and a Robert out of the hat, as those 2 players saved Bobby Robsons reputation and job at Newcastle too, because they totally transformed everything.

 

I wouldn't ever hate him the way I hate Souness, but I really don't want to have my memory of him as a good player, good captain, and a manager who gave it his best shot to be soured.

 

I am now of the opinion that they should look to make a change, and do it as soon as possible after the season is finished. And it goes without saying, that even though they back their managers - the value of which is seriously underestimated by lots of people on here - they will be under severe pressure and deservedly so if they get it wrong again.

 

 

 

Again? How much rope do you give them? Roeder will be their 4trh failure in 5 attempts NE5. That is an awful record and pretty much telling of their ability or rather lack of ability to deliver the right results for Newcastle United, which must be better than what we have witnessed too many times now. There comes a time in all our lives where the penny drops. For you and I the penny that Roeder is failing has dropped, we now accept, with heavy hearts, that he has to go, but what about the board?

 

For many, myself included, when Roeder fails, they won't deserve another crack at getting it right because they will have shown they are unable to get things right, 4 poor appointments in 5 will be all the proof needed to beat them over the head with, and that isn't mentioning all the other things. If a manager lives and dies by results, which we all accept is the fairest way, then so should those that appoint them.

 

When Roeder's time is up, so should the board's time be up. That is the only way forward for Newcastle United.

 

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Stevie]

Wenger is wrong, we have FAR more potential than Arsenal who have already under his stewardship reached their zenith, save a Champion League winners medal. Where as NUFC hasn't had anywhere near the level of success Arsenal have enjoyed since the Edwardian days really. If we played football like Arsenal and were winning doubles, getting to Champions League finals and generally fulfilling our true potential, you could bolt an extra 30,000 seats and I still think there would be lock-outs. You could also add 10s of millions to the turnover.

 

Just a shame we have a s**** manager, appointed by a s**** board.

This is a top post and basically reiterates the views of North East based toon fans.

 

Why only them?

Views of people like Vic, and others who are new to Newcastle United and there are many, I've spoken to in the past, can't grasp what a big club we are, and how big we could be. 

 

Living in Newcastle when we were good was incredible.  The whole city was literally buzzing, we could've sold the ground out two or three times over,  there's only Man Utd in this country who could do the same.

[Syrette]

Wenger is wrong, we have FAR more potential than Arsenal who have already under his stewardship reached their zenith, save a Champion League winners medal. Where as NUFC hasn't had anywhere near the level of success Arsenal have enjoyed since the Edwardian days really. If we played football like Arsenal and were winning doubles, getting to Champions League finals and generally fulfilling our true potential, you could bolt an extra 30,000 seats and I still think there would be lock-outs. You could also add 10s of millions to the turnover.

 

Just a shame we have a s**** manager, appointed by a s**** board.

This is a top post and basically reiterates the views of North East based toon fans.

 

Why only them?

Views of people like Vic, and others who are new to Newcastle United and there are many, I've spoken to in the past, can't grasp what a big club we are, and how big we could be. 

 

Living in Newcastle when we were good was incredible.  The whole city was literally buzzing, we could've sold the ground out two or three times over,  there's only Man Utd in this country who could do the same.

 

Fair enough. I wasn't all to in agreement with your 1st paragraph there till I read the second. I don't live local to the club, so you're right, I suppose it's harder for the likes of me to really comprehend some things.

[Martin Lol]

If you swapped the manager roles around, we'd be in the Top 4. Bold statement i know, but Wenger really is that good, and he knows how to get the best out of his players. Imagine also the development of the likes of N'Zogbia, Milner, Taylor, etc. Top 6 at the very least.

 

It would be like a dream for me, to see Newcastle to do better and the scum to do significantly worse!

 

Hurts to say it but you're right, Wenger is that good.

[NE5]

 

hard to know what to say here.

 

What Wenger says is of course, true. But to say we haven't appointed any other decent managers other than SBR and Keegan is complete nonsense. The appointment of Dalglish, was every bit as ambitious and a statement of intent as appointing Wenger himself would be.

 

Gullit too, as at the time he was very much a successful manager looking like he was on the way up in the managerial stakes too.

 

What would people do if Wenger came to Newcastle and failed to match SBR and Keegan, never mind exceed them ? Would you still say that we are being "raped by ineptitude and bad managerial appointments" ?

 

Its fair enough to say that there were good reasons to appoint Dalglish and Gullitt - a blind look at their CVs would suggest that they were good managers at the time we appointed them. Of course, different people have different opinions about the ability level of those managers at the time we appointed them, eg Ive always wanted a manager with a successful continental CV, ie success both domestically and in European competitions, building a side that you can visibly see has the markings of a good manager (eg Fergusons team all have movement, Wenger's technical ability, Rafa and Mourinho defensive organisation and drilling, etc etc) but thats a different arguement.

 

So, for the sake of agreement, lets just say that Shepherd had done a decent job up to and including the appointment of Sir Bobby. He appointed managers with strong CVs, secured a higher amount of income by carrying out the stadium expansion plans from the previous board/chairman, backed his managers in some seasons with cash, eventually took us to a top 4 spot after two failed managerial appointments and finally landing a good manager.

 

What you cant ignore though is the downward spiral of the club under Shepherd's stewardship a few years into Sir Bobby's reign.

 

11th, 11th - first 2 seasons, then 4th, 3rd and 5th suggests differently. Keep making things up though if it makes you happy.

 

Ref my post to you somewhere else about you harping on about "trophy players", have you told us who they are yet ?

 

Ive said a few years INTO Sir Bobby's reign. Learn to read. It means weve gone downwards since the initial few successful seasons. Ie, from 3rd onwards - as 5th, 14th, 7th, and probably 9th-11th, would suggest.

 

Trophy players - Owen, Duff.

 

undermining his manager, then failing to replace him when everything went stale and even our competitors at the time, Liverpool, went about replacing theirs despite finishing above us and having a very similar season under a manager who won plenty of trophies with them.

 

I agree, we should always change our manager at the same time as Liverpool. In fact, everybody should, then everybody would be as successful as they have been. We should always choose trophy winning managers too, just like Liverpool, and everybody else should do the same too. Oh, wait - we HAVE appointed trophy winning managers. Souness was one, Liverpool appointed him. Dalglish too, we appointed him after he won cups at Liverpool.

 

You agree with who? Your imaginary friend?

 

Where have I said we should change managers whenever Liverpool do so?

 

The point that youve clearly missed is that we were in a rot and it was quite clear that Sir Bobby should have been moved on. The exact same was the case with Liverpool. Both teams were shiite under Houllier/Robson respectively that season, and both managers' recent signings had turned out to be poor ones for the most part.

 

Liverpool's board saw this problem and took steps to alleviate those problems as soon as it was the right time to do so. Our board sat around twiddling its thumbs, telling the world that the manager was already out (despite there being plenty of examples of where this had lead to dire seasons from the players), and failed to act.

 

If Shepherd saw fit to undermine Sir Bobby, which he did, then he should have let him go. Unforunately, our chairman is also a softie when it comes to public opinion, scared to "shoot bambi".

 

The sale of Woodgate behind his manager's back without any replacement lined resulting in a terrible start to the season, the dismissal of Sir Bobby without any replacement lined up at a silly time of the season to sack the manager,

 

how do you know someobdy wasn't lined up who changed their mind about joining the club after agreeing to do so ?

 

I dont know for a fact, im merely assuming it based on the fact that the chairman has regularly acted this way. For example, after sacking Sir Bobby, his search for a replacement THEN started. Youd think hed have spoken to a few managers first before making the sacking. But no, thats not Shepherd.

 

the appointment of Souness, a manager who was a national laughing stock with every set of fans thinking him shiite, yet Shepherd decided hed be a good appointment, the backing of Souness with huge amounts of cash, the signing of an injury-prone centreforward for a huge amount of money despite having a weak squad, the refusal to sack Souness whilst the transfer window was still open, the statement of intent when talking about going abroad in looking for a top manager and admitting this was his last chance, the appointment of Roeder, a man with a track record of mediocrity.

 

Since 2003, the club have gone backwards and backwards under Shepherd as hes made poor decision after poor decision. Clearly, the man is an idiot if he thought Souness to be a good manager, and only an idiot would have thought Souness to be a good appointment (can guarantee you that rules out 99.9% of our fans, all of whom probably felt sick when the appointment was announced). And what on earth makes Shepherd think Roeder can coach or build a CL side, which surely is our goal?

 

Maybe some wise heads have left the board since those early years when he made the appointments of Dalglish, Gullitt and Sir Bobby, and as Shepherd's influence has grown without anyone there to give some decent perspective to him, the decision making has gone downhill spectacularly. Or maybe hes undermined one too many a manager, and noone with an ounce of credibility wants to work for him. Either way, hes failing badly to do what hes supposed to, and its unfair that he gets the wield the axe on others, managers or players, yet theres noone there to oust him.

 

I am in agreement about the appointment of Souness. However, the great Liverpool appointed Evans, with no managerial experience whatsover. Oh, wait, that can't be right, we are the only club who make such appointments, and the great Liverpool wouldn't dream of doing such a thing. In fact, neither would the great steve Gibson, who numerous people have said runs his club brilliantly and makes good decisions. The fact is, Roeder could have worked. His situations at West Ham and Watford were totally different to the situation at Newcastle, and the Watford fans don't blame him for being relegated. The West ham fans may do, bless their little cockney socks, but I don't give a stuff about them and it was also the time when he was, or became, a very ill man.

 

Ref your remarks about the appointments of Dalglish, Gullit, Robson etc....I have posted here before excerpts from Keegans book saying quite clearly that it was Shepherd, Hall Jnr and Fletcher who persuaded and chose him to become manager of Newcastle, not sir john Hall.

 

Now. About these "trophy" players. Who are they, and who exactly would you prefer the club to have signed instead of them ?

 

Take your time. And consider the fact that while you are moaning on about the club signing "trophy" players, that the teams you think we should be catching are also brimming with them.

 

Liverpool appointed Evans in the early 90s. The game has moved on since then, the top clubs scour the globe for the top managers - do you think Liverpool would appoint him now?

 

Middlesboro are a small, mid table club. If youre happy to reference them as justification of Roeder's appointment, then its an indication of what your expectations are. Unacceptably low.

 

As for your trophy players - Owen and Duff, as mentioned before. And in case you dont know, im not one who believes we shouldnt sign trophy players. Ive recently said I would want us to sacrifice the needs of the squad if we could land the likes of Rooney or Tevez, and I genuinely think Shepherd should be clapped for his efforts to bring Rooney here - it was a bold move that failed. But im not happy with us using such funds to sign players who are either crocks, or past it. To spend so much on Owen would have been fine if the guy had an injury record to match the likes of Eto'o, but he hasnt, he has pretty much the opposite bar one season on the bench at Real, and prior to the signing, a few of us on here showed these concerns that we were putting all our eggs in one basket. Suprise suprise, look at how things have turned out - predictable. Whether the injuries were unlucky or not, it was always nuts to sign him for 17mill - but then, hes an England international, and Shepherd was under pressure to deliver much needed signings, hence the "trophy" signing.

 

As for Duff, ive had the "we didnt need to spend 5mill and 70k per week on a backup left winger" arguement plenty of times with HTL, and everything that needs to be said has been said.

 

Anyway, responding to you is like talking to a brick wall, so you can have the last word if you want, its just a waste of my time trying to "discuss" anything with you. Youve already used your red herring tactics in this thread, for no reason going on about trophy signings, so I expect youll do the same. After all, I think its clear that youre recieving some sort of benefit from the club's, who have decided to dumb down fans' criticism through the back pocketing of the local media, .com, and now have representations defending the board on various messageboards.

 

Duff is a "trophy" signing, for 5m quid ? You are aware that Liverpool wanted him and he chose us ? Would you say that Liverpool sign "trophy" players, or is it why they win trophies ?

 

This is quite possibly the most stupid and illogical cliche I have ever read on any message board, ever, and every time I see it, it makes me laugh. Totally clueless.

 

I think talking to you is a waste of time, as you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, if you really do think that buying quality players is the only way to challenge the top 4 clubs, why slate the club and harp on about "trophy" signings when they do it ?

 

BTW, before the current board ie 1992, we sold our best "trophy" player to Liverpool, a local lad, who waved to the Kop signalling his intention to move there while wearing black and white. And guess, what ? The "trophy" player indeed won some trophies, while we were relegated.

 

You may have your wish anyway if Owen moves, I expect you will think that will get us nearer to challenging the top 4 clubs, not having any "trophy" players.

 

Utter drivel.

 

Owen was in fact the replacement for Shearer, one of the few players of the stature and ability to even half fill his shoes, and looking forward being an act of buying him when such a player became available.

 

Lastly, you said this

 

What you cant ignore though is the downward spiral of the club under Shepherd's stewardship a few years into Sir Bobby's reign .

 

So I pointed out that after the first few years of Bobby Robson's reign, we leaped into the top positions, achieving a top 5 position for  3 consecutive seasons for the first time in over 50 years. Fact.

 

I don't see what people mean when they say "the game has moved on". How ? Its the same game, played by the same amount of players. Clubs can appoint who they like, how can you say that Liverpool wouldn't appoint another member of the backroom staff to be manager in future. They might.

 

As for the smoggies, no you are wrong, we have a far bigger club than them, but at least we aren't selling them our best players, with these players happy to go there, one of them also a Newcastle supporter, like we did when we had a shit board.

 

I will also repeat what I said earlier, how do you know the search for a successor to Bobby Robson started AFTER he left ? Or are you just making something up ?

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

I don't see what people mean when they say "the game has moved on".

 

We noticed.